kcd 1 is a better game

[Jackal]

the writing in kcd 2 is god awful,

[Lyssa]

Originally posted by big Hat arxm:

Originally posted by Psycho_Soyer:

Comparing the two games is like comparing a burrito to a taco. Same ingredients just wrapped differently.

one is a burrito, served on a plate in a restaurant
the other is a burrito that has been excreted out by the dumpsters in an alley way

as you would say, wrapped differently!

Big true for me, KCD1 felt like i was dumpster diving with how it ran, balance, and writing. So I Completely Agree with your comment. KCD1 did feel that bad for me. At least I got some nicer food the next time that makes me less violently ill.

[Psycho_Soyer]

So is this going to be The Official Trash KCD2 Thread?

Or are those who hate the game going to continue to throw tantrums
and create thread after thread repeating their hate for a video game?

STARFIELDs message board is a perfect example of kids throwing tantrums because the game wasn't what they thought it would be.

😫😩😢😥😭😩😢😥

[Pappy Boyington]

"bad writting"
lovely, which game do you compare to?
this game, cp77 and witcher are the most well written games since ages

[makbthemf]

Originally posted by ohlol1:

I'm sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you. If you check my posts, you’ll see that I always try to emphasize that I respect your opinion, and I sincerely apologize if I came across as harsh in any way. I also made sure to read through the entire thread before replying to you, but sometimes I mix up your points with someone else's or misinterpret them. If that happened, I apologize for that as well.

I'm sorry for behaving in such a way too. I just prefer actions, than words, and if actions of opposition differ from words - I keep them in mind at first.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

However, I still managed to become rich through hunting—killing deer, cooking the meat over a campfire so it wouldn’t be marked as stolen, and then selling it. So, I believe there are plenty of ways to earn money in KCD besides looting expensive armor from enemies.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to earn money outside the looting, just that looting breaks the economy. Also, looting is the best income source from character development perspective. After all, in Medieval Europe, looting was the main and sometimes - the only source of income for medieval soldiers (both Knights and Men-at-arms).

Also, party mechanics fix the outcome of the money part of the economy problem - to equip your subordinates with good armor would cost a lot.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

Hmm, I haven’t tried the warhammer, but at some point, I switched to an axe because swords felt too easy—especially due to master strikes and it was much harder than swords to me. However, I was referring to my first KCD1 playthrough when I didn’t know about master strikes at all. Maybe you missed that part because I added it as an update in my previous comment. I’ll quote it here just in case.

1) it's always harder to switch to a new skill with a low level.
2) axes are quite bad in both KCDs, they have no "Headcracker" perk KCD1 and have no perks, which reduce the opposition's armour resistance to blunt damage in second chapter.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

When I got ambushed by multiple enemies, I had to get creative—riding around on horseback, firing arrows like a Hun.

It's the best way to deal with multiple enemies without potions, but very routine and breaks the character development - it was never stated in the plot that Jindro is a good archer.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

I would love to see more gameplay like that. I think in KCD2, they still have master blocks for axes, hammers, spears, etc., so it’s not quite the same as the experience of having no defensive mechanics at all and being forced to get creative and rely on stealth more. maybe if they could do this kind of combat possible it would be more fun and no need to implement party mechanics.

Actually KCD2 doesn't force you to fight on foot against enemies in random encounters - you could kill them with a spear mounted, shout mounted from light crossbows (next patches) and bows, e.t.c. You could also choke them down if you don't use the fasttravel mechanics - random encounters just spawn in the designed points, but you could just dismount at the bigger distance and choke them down via stealth.

All that options are in the game. There's not only one - the most realistic one - and which would solve many other problems of KCD2:

Press alt, pick up option "dismount" wait until your friends, subordinates, and comrades would do so, and then pick up "charge" add some battlecry to warm everyone up, and then smash the bandits, loot them, and go to the closest tavern to celebrate.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

Hmm, maybe I didn’t notice that because I played KCD2 the same way I played my KCD1—constantly looking for a position where no one could flank me or attack from behind. So, I naturally avoided situations where AI nerfed behavior would become obvious.

I just was pressing "s" constantly, sometimes changing directions, and was encircled in free-play mode only twice - and only after 1.1 patch. In the main story the Pisek's siege was very hardcorish - opposition worn top armour, and my fellow soldiers were too weak, so in many cases I was 1 vs. 10 on the walls, after 5-7 seconds, locked in the corner with no stamina, coz even shield blocking eat some. So basically if I was left alone against big opposition in the final of the game - I've reloaded.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

You probably misunderstood my comment—I actually agreed that Morrowind is an exception among modern TES games, where NPCs treat you respectfully from the start.

Sorry, my bad.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

I don’t really remember how the reputation system worked in Oblivion’s open world, but I feel that it wasn’t as impactful as in Morrowind or KCD.

It worked with the same algorithms Mor worked - but for some reason players' actions raised the rep in the whole Cyrodiil prefecture. So after Kvatch player's rep raised to 60, and after some other quests - to 90.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

You listed some pretty old games—even RDR2 was released seven years ago. Games like these don’t come out every day. In most modern RPGs, NPCs just treat you nicely by default.

Yup and KCD1 was exceptional (10\10). In fact, IMHO KCD1 is the best ever produced game by humanity. KCD2 is just more realistic Skyrim (7/10). That's why I'm very upset and frustrated.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

To be honest, I do remember the main plot, but it didn’t strike me as particularly impressive. It was decent but nothing extraordinary, which makes sense for a game trying to stay close to historical sources. I found that the side quests were often more interesting and well-written than the main story.

It was both a curse and a blessing of KCD1 - the lack of budget and limits of the story scale forced Vavra and co. to use artistic instruments they had. They couldn't show the war as brutally as in KCD2, so they made a very strong contrast for players - and placed Monastery quest just before big segment with non-stop action to the end. I personally think that Monastery is the best quest in the game, and because I consider KCD1 the best game ever - the best quest in the history of videogaming to this day.
However, because of bad reception for such missions in KCD1 or simply because Dan Vavra actually wanted to make something like - most of the KCD2 budget was wasted on Category-B movie style cutscenes, which break immersion, and look cringy most of the time.
If only 1\4 of the cutscene budget would be spent on party-mechanics, better alchemy, economy, stealth and skill-check balance - the game would lose nothing.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

I love this game, but not for its narrative logic, writing, or character development. I enjoy it because it lets me be a medieval clown—something that’s quite rare to experience in real life.

Hence party-mechanic would be a great improvement for your experience too) Just by adding trickster-char in the party, with specially designed quests for him.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

You know that if you romance these characters, you won’t get the secret ending where Henry returns to Theresa, right? It makes sense—the classic story of a soldier leaving someone behind and finding a new love is as old as time. No paradox there.

1) it's not a secret ending, it's just an Easter egg, which happens in Jindro's dream (just as parents' dialogue) - he is not discharged in the objective reality of the game, so if he rides to Rattay, he basically deserted. Which means that he could be hanged for that.
2) My Jindro turned warrior with no return - he burned down Meleshow, and said to parents that he would do it again, to save his comrades. With such choices, dialogue in the dream ends, and you have no options to choose further options at all.

However, even when I apologized for Meleshow to see other options - I considered warrior or adventurer options. And Tereza clearly stated that she doesn't want to marry a warrior at the end of KCD, and gave hints during her romancing quest line. So it's hard to admit, but Roza is the best option for warrior-Jindřich - after our pal would be knighted, she would take herself politics and domain management, and Jindro - war, spying, and delicious food XD

Originally posted by ohlol1:

It makes sense—the classic story of a soldier leaving someone behind and finding a new love is as old as time. No paradox there.

I don't see it like that. All social station, wealth, new friends, e.t.c Jindro earned with a sword. He hated the idea of sitting under the Skalice castle and forging horseshoes for the rest of his life. Why he should like to be bored to death in Prbslavytsa woods? I never saw anything in both KCD's plots which would drag him outside the warriors abyss.

So, by my humble opinion, the best character development of Jindro is to rescue the king, be knighted, fight with his father and Zizhka against Rozhemberks, then - in Hussite wars, and so on.
But it's just how I feel the character - completely subjective, not an objective critics. After all, I know the war very closely IRL, and my experience impacts my perception.

[opus132]

Originally posted by Pappy Boyington:

"bad writting"
lovely, which game do you compare to?

Pretty much they are comparing it to KCD1.

[ohlol1]

Originally posted by makbthemf:

I'm not saying that it's impossible to earn money outside the looting, just that looting breaks the economy. Also, looting is the best income source from character development perspective. After all, in Medieval Europe, looting was the main and sometimes - the only source of income for medieval soldiers (both Knights and Men-at-arms).

The hunting also breaks the economy, just like thievery and other activities. I remember that after just two hunting sessions early in the game, I got about 10k grochen and was able to buy the best armor and weapons available in town. After that, I never needed money in the game again. It also breaks the narrative—if hunting were so easy and profitable, every peasant in the kingdom would be rich.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

Also, party mechanics fix the outcome of the money part of the economy problem - to equip your subordinates with good armor would cost a lot.

Yes, as well as the Pribyslavitz restoration DLC from KCD1. However, just like said DLC, it could also turn into another micro-management mechanic that doesn’t really make sense.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

It's the best way to deal with multiple enemies without potions, but very routine and breaks the character development - it was never stated in the plot that Jindro is a good archer.

It is never stated that he is a good swordsman either—quite the opposite, if you remember the beginning of KCD1. But in an RPG, you can develop your character however you like.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

Actually KCD2 doesn't force you to fight on foot against enemies in random encounters - you could kill them with a spear mounted, shout mounted from light crossbows (next patches) and bows, e.t.c. You could also choke them down if you don't use the fasttravel mechanics - random encounters just spawn in the designed points, but you could just dismount at the bigger distance and choke them down via stealth.

As I stated before, I enjoyed finding creative solutions in KCD1, like using Hun tactics, positioning myself in hard-to-reach spots to rain arrows on enemies, or relying on stealth. However, I don’t think that’s possible both narratively and gameplay-wise if a pack of meatheads canned in steel armor is following your every step.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

All that options are in the game. There's not only one - the most realistic one - and which would solve many other problems of KCD2:

Press alt, pick up option "dismount" wait until your friends, subordinates, and comrades would do so, and then pick up "charge" add some battlecry to warm everyone up, and then smash the bandits, loot them, and go to the closest tavern to celebrate.

And now all the ideas involving stealth or Hun tactics are gone because of the overpowered party mechanics—now there’s no need to personally engage in combat at all.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

I just was pressing "s" constantly, sometimes changing directions, and was encircled in free-play mode only twice - and only after 1.1 patch. In the main story the Pisek's siege was very hardcorish - opposition worn top armour, and my fellow soldiers were too weak, so in many cases I was 1 vs. 10 on the walls, after 5-7 seconds, locked in the corner with no stamina, coz even shield blocking eat some. So basically if I was left alone against big opposition in the final of the game - I've reloaded.

Actually, I remembered that I once decided to massacre all the bandits in a raided village near Sigismund's camp (sorry, I forgot the name). I used my usual tactic of finding a narrow space and relying on master strikes since there were a ton of enemies. But then the AI outplayed me—the house I barricaded myself in had another exit, and some enemies flanked me while others kept me busy at the main entrance. They ended up beating me to death. So I would say that sometimes KCD2’s AI can be surprisingly smart, even in non-quest moments.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

I personally think that Monastery is the best quest in the game, and because I consider KCD1 the best game ever - the best quest in the history of videogaming to this day.

Yes, I also liked the monastery sequence.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

Hence party-mechanic would be a great improvement for your experience too) Just by adding trickster-char in the party, with specially designed quests for him.

Not sure about that. I personally hated Bohuta's gameplay sequences in KCD2, even though I liked his character. I don’t think I would enjoy switching from my beloved Henry to another, less well-written character.

Regarding Teresa , sorry, I won’t quote or comment on it in detail and I didn't think this part of a game to be so important to someone, but I don’t really see any problem here. You can either be with her or not. You said you chose the warrior path and you want to be with Rosa, and that’s perfectly fine. If someone plays Henry as a more humble, down-to-earth man, the ending where he chooses to settle down is also fine.

Originally posted by makbthemf:

After all, I know the war very closely IRL, and my experience impacts my perception

Sorry to hear that

[makbthemf]

Originally posted by ohlol1:

if hunting were so easy and profitable, every peasant in the kingdom would be rich.

More like would be hanged)

Originally posted by ohlol1:

Yes, as well as the Pribyslavitz restoration DLC from KCD1. However, just like said DLC, it could also turn into another micro-management mechanic that doesn’t really make sense.

No it couldn't) After all only Jindřich's pages would be available for kit change - all other subordinates in the end of KCD1 Racek transferred his men under Jindro's command. Hence all the armour on them is property of Racek "Kobyla" of Dvorec.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

However, I don’t think that’s possible both narratively and gameplay-wise if a pack of meatheads canned in steel armor is following your every step.

It would be actually more historically correct. Well-respected man, like a high-ranked officer of the Royal Hetmann never traveled alone in Medieval Europe. And from a narrative perspective - Jindro was appointed as a commander in late KCD1 story, hence it doesn't break the character development. Also, IRL it's almost impossible to take off the pauldrons and bracers without another person's help. So it's Impossible for Jindřich to travel alone, from a realism perspective ;-)

Originally posted by ohlol1:

And now all the ideas involving stealth or Hun tactics are gone because of the overpowered party mechanics—now there’s no need to personally engage in combat at all.

I don't think so - after all it's not narratively and worldbuildingly possible to travel in KCD2 with more than 3 pages. And they would have same AI as other NPCs, so even unnerfed back - they wouldn't be a decisive machines of death - just guys who protects Jindro's flanks and ass from encirclement. Hence, direct confrontation would not be the only option - after all, more subordinates - more armour to repair in the repairing kit menu.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

So I would say that sometimes KCD2’s AI can be surprisingly smart, even in non-quest moments.

By most chances - AI in the camp aren't nerfed, because the same AI pragian besiagers of Picek have.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

Not sure about that. I personally hated Bohuta's gameplay sequences in KCD2, even though I liked his character. I don’t think I would enjoy switching from my beloved Henry to another, less well-written character.

You basically stated the main problem of KCD2 - bad character writing. And it's not only Bohuta's problem, even most Devil's pack members are cardboard. Also, the biggest problem with Bohuta for me is that the character is mandatory to play - no matter what players want. If players would be able to switch between the characters when they want to - it would be much better. For example, when Jindro is reading the Czech-Latin self-study guide - Matuš and Fricek could go to the countryside to do some shenanigans.

Originally posted by ohlol1:

Regarding Teresa , sorry, I won’t quote or comment on it in detail and I didn't think this part of a game to be so important to someone, but I don’t really see any problem here. You can either be with her or not. You said you chose the warrior path and you want to be with Rosa, and that’s perfectly fine. If someone plays Henry as a more humble, down-to-earth man, the ending where he chooses to settle down is also fine.

But I see - we have paid for the content, (actually, KCD2 cost like AAA game which she's not), and for our money we're cut off great piece of content pie. Roza is an obvious choice for the warrior. But all other romances in the first two acts break the logic of the character's development if Jindro dates Tereza. He has no reason to romance everyone else before the begining of the 3rd act (Meleshow's assault, or returning to Kutna Hora with Roza) - where he needs to decide which path he wants to choose. So we have two options: a) to ignore role-playing, and play KCD2 like a realistic Skyrim b) miss a big portion of the content - side-quests, romances, activities, e.t.c.

My second playthrough includes more humane Jindřich (like in my 4th KCD1 playthrough) but still some quests were against character development - like Zheleyow's pranks against their neighbors.

Offtop: it's actually great writing that the best motivation not to burn the Meleshow is brought by Cumans in drinking side-quest on the 1st map, so by most chances in this playthrough Meleshow would be saved

Originally posted by ohlol1:

Originally posted by makbthemf:

After all, I know the war very closely IRL, and my experience impacts my perception

Sorry to hear that

Thank you, but it's ok - I knew what I had signed for.