I was Warhorse's biggest defender

[MF]

I didn't believe all the nonsense and as it turns out 99% of it is horsecrap. Looky, I've been looking forward to this game for years. Warhorse were 'the chosen ones'. In any other game I'd not give a toss that the main protagonist was given an opportunity for same sex fuzzy bumping. But this is Henry. Henry is straight. If he could be otherwise, he'd have had the opportunity back in Skalitz. You can play him as a saint or murderer, but he's straight. Theresa, Stephanie and all the girls at the bathhouse can attest to this.

So why now ? I don't care how hard you have to work to make it happen. It should NOT be a thing. Period. Why is it there ?

Warhorse bent the knee.

This isn't Ubisoft or Larian Studios, where I expect to be inundated with this crap. This was a studio I place my faith in.

Then there's this dude from Mali. Go find Mali on a freaking map. It's in bloody west Africa and was not part of the Ottoman Empire. You want believable diversity ? Put some Ottoman Turks or maybe some actual Tatars or Mongols in there. Putting a guy from West Africa in Kuttenburg is as much of a stretch as the little Chinese chicky who ran the trading shop in the viking settlement in ENGLAND in AC Valhalla. It's a real stretch. So again, I don't care how well written he is or how likeable a character. I know why he's there.

Warhorse bent the knee.

Couple that with the DEI hire running the forum, and I'm out. KCD1 conversations were always spicy and loads of entertainment. Does Steam actually believe a lot of us will stick around with some over zealous uber PC school mom hovering over us with a switch ? Think again. I've already been banned once for defending the bloody game...............

I've thought about this too. Vavra should have told his publisher, in no uncertain terms, that this was unacceptable as it just reeks of 'woke' and tarnishes his game.

Damage done. Even I, his most ardent defender, don't want to play this game any more. It's like finally getting a date with the most beautiful girl in school, but knowing in the back of your mind that last week she did the entire football team. The entire experience is now tainted for me.

Happily, I have 80 lords left to play in Warhammer.

Refunded.

[Columbus]

Originally posted by joxertm22:

Thanks for admitting being a homophobic closeted gay.
Goodbye.

Henry canonical is asexual. Theresa romance was optional content.
Next!

So that must mean it's canon for Arthur Morgan to get boned by some hick in the swamp then.

[Zoddo]

Originally posted by BigWezz:

Originally posted by Zoddo:

Yeah and that's fine that Toth was gay, but Henry wasn't. Nobody is arguing that there are no gays allowed to be depicted in the game, as long they are written believably within the context of their environment that's fine and can enhance the story (and I think the hint that Toth is gay is not bad writing or character development). Retconning tough that now all of a sudden Henry is essentially open to get it in the bungus (and canonically making him BI at least all of a sudden) is ruining the character many people grew to know and love (including for me). Henry is not a player made faceless character, he is a persona with his established character and personality and I think this retcon is a big mistake and only hurts the story they want to tell.

Well none of us has seen the writing of KCD2 so none of us can say if its poorly done.

But again, its an RPG. If you don't want Henry to be gay, then he isn't, at all!

Simply having the option means that Henry, the character, is considering having gay relations which basically becomes a part of his character. Your argument would be valid if you would create a character yourself from a blank slate, but that is not the case with Henry.

[Columbus]

Originally posted by Zoddo:

Originally posted by BigWezz:

Well none of us has seen the writing of KCD2 so none of us can say if its poorly done.

But again, its an RPG. If you don't want Henry to be gay, then he isn't, at all!

Simply having the option means that Henry, the character, is considering having gay relations which basically becomes a part of his character. Your argument would be valid if you would create a character yourself from a blank slate, but that is not the case with Henry.

So if the player has the option to murder a whole village, does that mean Henry was considering it?

[Consolgamer]

Originally posted by Dr. Fusselpulli:

Originally posted by gosuprime:

Toth was handled in a good way, and the game didn't throw it in your face despite it was a sin at the time: Henry alluded that him and Erik were "lovers", but the game established Henry as clearly straight (looking at Theresa, dating Bianca, etc) and now he is bisexual? Based on what exactly?

Henry is not bisexual. Henry can either be straight or bisexual depending on your play style.
Most players will play him as a straight character, the quest where he can romance a man is not easy to do.

It's cool no matter what he is. Also lots of straight people have had homosexual experiences isnt it

[BigWezz]

Originally posted by Zoddo:

Originally posted by BigWezz:

Well none of us has seen the writing of KCD2 so none of us can say if its poorly done.

But again, its an RPG. If you don't want Henry to be gay, then he isn't, at all!

Simply having the option means that Henry, the character, is considering having gay relations which basically becomes a part of his character. Your argument would be valid if you would create a character yourself from a blank slate, but that is not the case with Henry.

That's not quite right though.

In KCD1 Henry can by a thief and a murderer, giving the players the choice to do those things doesn't mean that Henry was a theif or murderer from the beginning.

Henry's moral compass is decided by the player.

[Traumaturgy]

Originally posted by Dr. Fusselpulli:

Henry is not bisexual. Henry can either be straight or bisexual depending on your play style.
Most players will play him as a straight character, the quest where he can romance a man is not easy to do.

Superman/Aragorn/Geralt/Romeo is not bisexual, he can either be straight or bisexual depending on your play style.

You see how ridiculous it sounds? You cant change orientation of already established characters. If you wanted options you should have added them in KCD1, or make main protagonist of KCD2 not Henry, but blank character player creates.

[Zoddo]

Originally posted by Columbus:

Originally posted by Zoddo:

Simply having the option means that Henry, the character, is considering having gay relations which basically becomes a part of his character. Your argument would be valid if you would create a character yourself from a blank slate, but that is not the case with Henry.

So if the player has the option to murder a whole village, does that mean Henry was considering it?

Well, i am not arguing about activities outside of character development (which includes cut scenes and dialogues and quests in my opinion, not how you act in the sandbox) you have to draw the line somewhere in a game like this. Cut-scenes are pretty fixed in the way Henry is portrayed so there's somewhat of a canon for his personality and character. Options for dialogue deepen the understanding of the character itself in addition, meaning Henry has the potential of being a good guy who talks his way through trouble but also has the potential for violence, deceit and so on in order to reach his goals. So giving this option still has impact on the way Henry will be canonically perceived no matter if you choose it or not. I think that's the core of the argument that's being missed here.

[blurryface]

Originally posted by joxertm22:

Thanks for admitting being a homophobic closeted gay.
Goodbye.

Henry canonical is asexual. Theresa romance was optional content.
Next!

Being asexual means you're not sexually attracted to anybody, so it's a self-refuting theory, because we know he feels sexually attracted to women, otherwise he wouldn't have sex with them.

[Fluxuous]

Originally posted by Zoddo:

Originally posted by Columbus:

So if the player has the option to murder a whole village, does that mean Henry was considering it?

Well, i am not arguing about activities outside of character development (which includes cut scenes and dialogues and quests in my opinion, not how you act in the sandbox) you have to draw the line somewhere in a game like this. Cut-scenes are pretty fixed in the way Henry is portrayed so there's somewhat of a canon for his personality and character. Options for dialogue deepen the understanding of the character itself in addition, meaning Henry has the potential of being a good guy who talks his way through trouble but also has the potential for violence, deceit and so on in order to reach his goals. So giving this option still has impact on the way Henry will be canonically perceived no matter if you choose it or not. I think that's the core of the argument that's being missed here.

It's to a much lesser extend but through dialogue too the player can still choose whether Henry is an upstanding citizen or an absolute scoundrel.

[Cassidy0z]

Originally posted by Traumaturgy:

Originally posted by Dr. Fusselpulli:

Henry is not bisexual. Henry can either be straight or bisexual depending on your play style.
Most players will play him as a straight character, the quest where he can romance a man is not easy to do.

Superman/Aragorn/Geralt/Romeo is not bisexual, he can either be straight or bisexual depending on your play style.

You see how ridiculous it sounds? You cant change orientation of already established characters. If you wanted options you should have added them in KCD1, or make main protagonist of KCD2 not Henry, but blank character player creates.

Please tell us how they changed the sexual orientation of Henry. Unless you're trying to claim that "player choice" is a newly defined sex.

[BigWezz]

Originally posted by Traumaturgy:

Originally posted by Dr. Fusselpulli:

Henry is not bisexual. Henry can either be straight or bisexual depending on your play style.
Most players will play him as a straight character, the quest where he can romance a man is not easy to do.

Superman/Aragorn/Geralt/Romeo is not bisexual, he can either be straight or bisexual depending on your play style.

You see how ridiculous it sounds? You cant change orientation of already established characters. If you wanted options you should have added them in KCD1, or make main protagonist of KCD2 not Henry, but blank character player creates.

Henry is an RPG character that they player decides what happens with him, the rest (bar Geralt particularly) are from books and comics with years of lore about them where the reader has no input.

Your Henry doesn't have to be gay, it's literally your choice and noone will force you to do it.

[Zoddo]

Originally posted by Fluxuous:

Originally posted by Zoddo:

Well, i am not arguing about activities outside of character development (which includes cut scenes and dialogues and quests in my opinion, not how you act in the sandbox) you have to draw the line somewhere in a game like this. Cut-scenes are pretty fixed in the way Henry is portrayed so there's somewhat of a canon for his personality and character. Options for dialogue deepen the understanding of the character itself in addition, meaning Henry has the potential of being a good guy who talks his way through trouble but also has the potential for violence, deceit and so on in order to reach his goals. So giving this option still has impact on the way Henry will be canonically perceived no matter if you choose it or not. I think that's the core of the argument that's being missed here.

It's to a much lesser extend but through dialogue too the player can still choose whether Henry is an upstanding citizen or an absolute scoundrel.

That's exactly what I am saying, this portrays the extents of his potential as person, the option to have a gay romance adds another layer to that unique potential Henry has, and that's what most players find not believable with the way Henry specifically was written and portrayed in KCD1 and this seems to be a big break from that in KCD2. Him having the potential of being hateful and violent was portrayed in KCD1 (in the bell tower scene for example), as well as him being a scoundrel or a smooth talker (in various other cut-scenes). Even if it's a choice to have a gay relationship it will be part of Henry and his character in it's core and canon and people (including me) don't find that to be believable or good character writing, you might not share that perception but I think a great many people do.

[sir radzig]

Originally posted by joxertm22:

Thanks for admitting being a homophobic closeted gay.
Goodbye.

Henry canonical is asexual. Theresa romance was optional content.
Next!

dont give this idiot DEI trolls any jester awards

[Cassidy0z]

Originally posted by Zoddo:

That's exactly what I am saying, this portrays the extents of his potential as person, the option to have a gay romance adds another layer to that unique potential Henry has, and that's what most players find not believable with the way Henry specifically was written and portrayed in KCD1 and this seems to be a big break from that in KCD2. Him having the potential of being hateful and violent was portrayed in KCD1 (in the bell tower scene for example), as well as him being a scoundrel or a smooth talker (in various other cut-scenes). Even if it's a choice to have a gay relationship it will be part of Henry and his character in it's core and canon and people (including me) don't find that to be believable or good character writing, you might not share that perception but I think a great many people do.

Wrong and this is just you doing a self insert into characters. That doesn't make it canon and even canon isn't entirely canon being that there are no multiple branches in a source material which generally is books or lore where there is but one path and one outcome. Game canon is just created to say that the IP holder feels that the choices there still fit within the framework of the lore.

Henry is whatever you make of him.

[sir radzig]

mali was not part of the ottoman empire but when the ottoman empire was conquering the balkans and other regions it had soldiers from most nationalities in its army
from black africans, arabs, tatars and even Iranians
and according to what vavra said musa was probably the malian ambassador to bayezids court
and also many people from different parts of the world even India came to europe for trade and since Kuttenberg is a rich city so it is not unlikely
I hope that at least despite these reasons that vavra himself confirmed you can come to terms with it but there is no way you can come to terms with Henry being gay
Even who am a vavra fan iam against this thing even though it is a choice