The truth about Mali of the games time period

[Dio]

There has been a very rabid and organized effort by Reddit historians in recent years to rewrite Mali as some sort of advanced, cultured nation that interacted with distant lands, but the truth is far from it.

Here is an excerpt from Arab traveler Ibn Battuta, who visited Mali:

"Sultan Mansa Sulayman was visited by a party of ...[non-Muslim] negro cannibals, including one of their [princes]. They have a custom of wearing in their ears large pendants, each pendant having an opening of half a span. They wrap themselves in silk mantles, and in their country there is a gold mine. The sultan received them with honour, and gave them as his hospitality-gift a servant, a negress. They killed and ate her, and having smeared their faces and hands with her blood came to the sultan to thank him. I was informed that this is their regular custom whenever they visit his court. Someone told me about them that they say that the choicest parts of women's flesh are the palm of the hand and the breast"

During his stay he witnessed several more women being eaten within the sultans court, and remarked that Malians did not react to it in any way, to them it was an ordinary sight for a slave girl to be eaten.
He also witnessed rampant cuckolding as it was apparently completely common for Malians to have sex with many others, despite being married. Both men and women did this regularly, and often in public places.
They also genitaIIy mutiIated all women.

Here are some examples of Malian architecture built during the time period of their great sultan Mansa Musa, the greatest mosques he had constructed:
https://i.imgur.com/iasUqPW.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/CqRUuxx.png

The "Great Mosque of Djenne" is falsely portrayed as a Mansa Musa era achievement by Reddit historians, but it was actually built around 1907 with the help of French people, the original building had been much smaller and had fallen to ruin and taken over by thousands of bird nests over Malians not performing any maintenance on it for centuries.
The modern version of it is not impressive either by any standards:
https://i.imgur.com/33B1bb1.jpeg

Here is the "Great Mosque of Djenne" before the French helped create the much larger and taller version:
https://i.imgur.com/IsKD09s.jpeg
Photo from 1893

You can watch the David Attenborough documentary Human Planet to see in one episode this Great Mosque of Djenne, and how the locals once a year have to apply fresh mud to every point of the entire constructs surface, since the entire thing is made out of mud, it actually begins cracking from sunlight and eventually the whole thing will crumble and collapse if mud is not regularly applied to it.

Here is Mansa Musa's glorious city of Timbuktu, 600 years after his death:
https://i.imgur.com/nxsaL8z.jpeg
A mere town of mud houses.

This was simply not the kind of people who had scholars, explorers or doctors. They had no one that could travel to other continents. They did not even have rudimentary cornerstone inventions of civilizations such as the boat, a written language or math.

A Malian scholar and explorer is pure DEI larp, a fantasy born out of political activists desire to invent a history for black people, because the truth is too uncomfortable if your goal is to trick people into accepting the entire world being turned into an extension of Africa.

[EDIT; ADDITION:]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Timbuktu
Due to repeated efforts of Afrocentric revisionists attempting to argue that Mali was a "great centre of learning, sciences and culture", notice the names of all the authors that wrote manuscripts and books in there.
They are ALL Berbers and Arabs. Every single one.
No native Malian scholars existed whatsoever, and no books exist by medieval Malian authors, no technological inventions or scientific discoveries were made by any Malian natives. Any contributions to the intellectual arts in Mali came from non-black foreigners who were staying there.
Whatever teaching happened in Mali, was North Africans and Arabs trying to educate tribal animists into becoming civilized people, and ultimately failing as the natives never became capable of producing knowledge or making discoveries on their own.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Dio:

https://i.imgur.com/iasUqPW.jpeg
.

Looks like a megaphone above and wiring too, which would imply they had mastered electrical energy. Sounds pretty advanced to me.

[Sgt. Flaw]

I mean they weren't as uncivilized as you're making them out to be but I will agree...WTF is a Malian doing in Bohemia?

Those "mud houses" look pretty well built TBH and would be pretty economical given their terrain.

[Kain]

Seems the Mali could write at least, they didn't develop it, but used the language.

https://homework.study.com/explanation/did-the-mali-empire-have-a-written-language.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script#:~:text=Ajami%20(Arabic:%20%D8%B9%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%8A%E2%80%8E%2C,added%20to%20pre-existing%20letters.

"The script was first used between the 10th and the 16th centuries. It was likely originally created with the intent of promoting Islam in West Africa."

[Bordric]

I think to be a scholar you need to be able to write. Even Arabic would be ok, but Musa just ran around like a Shaman. Shaman were the smart dudes that got out of hunting and getting firewood by tell everyone their futures around the campfire.

[nope]

The entire history of Africa is just them killing and eating each other. There are no exceptions to this that don't belong in pure fantasy.

[Dio]

Originally posted by Sgt. Flaw:

I mean they weren't as uncivilized as you're making them out to be but I will agree...WTF is a Malian doing in Bohemia?

Those "mud houses" look pretty well built TBH and would be pretty economical given their terrain.

Mali has lots of very rocky and mountaineous terrain, they could have easily created quarries, mined stone slabs and built actual stone houses, palaces and roads. But something was mysteriously handicapping them from doing this and limiting them to mud houses.

[Majorly Wrathful]

Heckin' progressive and VIBRANT! We have so much to learn from them! And the FOOD!

[Bordric]

The lefties want Mali to be the Wokekanda they have been searching for. But they didn't have a wheel or written language. To read them on steam would think they had Galleon's invented printing press, designed the Cathedral Notre-Dame de Paris.

[C]

Embracer, the company that owns Warhorse and pushes for this crap, is funding a NGO called Solvatten.

https://embracer.com/sustainability/collaborations-and-partnerships/

"Solvatten is a social enterprise based in Sweden with one mission: To provide people living in developing countries with safe and hot water in a portable, environmentally friendly way."

The company that has a 15th century Malian teach you about his superior civilisation is funding NGOs that help Africans, including indeed Malians, figure out ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ RUNNING WATER, in 2025.

[OSHZAK]

Originally posted by Dio:

There has been a very rabid and organized effort by Reddit historians in recent years to rewrite Mali as some sort of advanced, cultured nation that interacted with distant lands, but the truth is far from it.

Here is an excerpt from Arab traveler Ibn Battuta, who visited Mali:

"Sultan Mansa Sulayman was visited by a party of ...[non-Muslim] negro cannibals, including one of their [princes]. They have a custom of wearing in their ears large pendants, each pendant having an opening of half a span. They wrap themselves in silk mantles, and in their country there is a gold mine. The sultan received them with honour, and gave them as his hospitality-gift a servant, a negress. They killed and ate her, and having smeared their faces and hands with her blood came to the sultan to thank him. I was informed that this is their regular custom whenever they visit his court. Someone told me about them that they say that the choicest parts of women's flesh are the palm of the hand and the breast"

During his stay he witnessed several more women being eaten within the sultans court, and remarked that Malians did not react to it in any way, to them it was an ordinary sight for a slave girl to be eaten.
He also witnessed rampant cuckolding as it was apparently completely common for Malians to have sex with many others, despite being married. Both men and women did this regularly, and often in public places.
They also genitaIIy mutiIated all women.

Here are some examples of Malian architecture built during the time period of their great sultan Mansa Musa, the greatest mosques he had constructed:
https://i.imgur.com/iasUqPW.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/CqRUuxx.png

The "Great Mosque of Djenne" is falsely portrayed as a Mansa Musa era achievement by Reddit historians, but it was actually built around 1907 with the help of French people, the original building had been much smaller and had fallen to ruin and taken over by thousands of bird nests over Malians not performing any maintenance on it for centuries.
The modern version of it is not impressive either by any standards:
https://i.imgur.com/33B1bb1.jpeg

Here is the "Great Mosque of Djenne" before the French helped create the much larger and taller version:
https://i.imgur.com/IsKD09s.jpeg
Photo from 1893

You can watch the David Attenborough documentary Human Planet to see in one episode this Great Mosque of Djenne, and how the locals once a year have to apply fresh mud to every point of the entire constructs surface, since the entire thing is made out of mud, it actually begins cracking from sunlight and eventually the whole thing will crumble and collapse if mud is not regularly applied to it.

Here is Mansa Musa's glorious city of Timbuktu, 600 years after his death:
https://i.imgur.com/nxsaL8z.jpeg
A mere town of mud houses.

This was simply not the kind of people who had scholars, explorers or doctors. They had no one that could travel to other continents. They did not even have rudimentary cornerstone inventions of civilizations such as the boat, a written language or math.

A Malian scholar and explorer is pure DEI larp, a fantasy born out of political activists desire to invent a history for black people, because the truth is too uncomfortable if your goal is to trick people into accepting the entire world being turned into an extension of Africa.

This interpretation of the Mali Empire is deeply flawed and reflects a significant misunderstanding of both historical sources and the context of West African civilizations. The claims made here ignore the overwhelming evidence of Mali’s sophistication, wealth, and influence during its golden age, and they rely on biased, out of context accounts to paint a distorted picture.

To begin with, Ibn Battuta’s observations must be understood within the context of his own biases. As a 14th century Muslim traveler, he often judged other cultures through the lens of his own values and religious norms. His accounts frequently included exaggerations, hearsay, and personal disapproval of practices unfamiliar to him. The story of cannibalism is unsubstantiated by any other contemporary or archaeological evidence and is likely a result of sensationalism or misunderstanding, not an accurate depiction of Malian society. Similarly, his remarks about marital practices reflect his cultural shock rather than an objective description of Mali’s social structure.

The architectural achievements of the Mali Empire, such as the Great Mosque of Djenné, are another point of misrepresentation. The mosque’s original construction dates back to the 13th century, during Mali’s peak, long before French colonization. While the structure was rebuilt in 1907, the techniques and materials used reflect a longstanding tradition of earthen architecture that was both practical and ingenious for the region’s climate. Maintaining the mosque with annual mud applications demonstrates community cohesion and sustainability, not primitiveness.

Timbuktu, far from being a "mere town," was one of the most important centers of trade, learning, and culture in the medieval world. The city was home to thousands of manuscripts on subjects such as astronomy, medicine, theology, and law, preserved in institutions like the Sankoré University. These texts demonstrate a rich intellectual tradition that connected West Africa to broader Islamic and global knowledge networks. The claim that Mali lacked scholars or intellectuals is patently false figures like Ahmed Baba of Timbuktu, a renowned scholar, are clear evidence of the empire’s academic legacy.

The Mali Empire’s economic and political power was unparalleled in its time. Under rulers like Mansa Musa, Mali controlled vast resources of gold and salt, which were traded across the Sahara to North Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Mansa Musa’s pilgrimage to Mecca in 1324 was not just an expression of personal piety but a display of Mali’s wealth and global influence. His journey left a lasting impression on the Islamic world, further cementing Mali’s reputation as a powerful and prosperous state.

Finally, comparing the Mali Empire’s achievements to modern conditions is an ahistorical argument. The challenges faced by Mali today are the result of centuries of colonial exploitation and global inequalities, not an indication of its historical significance. To dismiss Mali’s achievements because of its current circumstances ignores the broader historical context.

In sum, the Mali Empire was a thriving, sophisticated civilization that played a crucial role in global trade, culture, and scholarship. Attempts to diminish its accomplishments rely on selective readings of sources, a lack of historical context, and an unwillingness to engage with the extensive evidence of its achievements.

[Dio]

Originally posted by Kain:

Seems the Mali could write at least, they didn't develop it, but used the language.

https://homework.study.com/explanation/did-the-mali-empire-have-a-written-language.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script#:~:text=Ajami%20(Arabic:%20%D8%B9%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%8A%E2%80%8E%2C,added%20to%20pre-existing%20letters.

"The script was first used between the 10th and the 16th centuries. It was likely originally created with the intent of promoting Islam in West Africa."

I am aware that some there could read and write Arabic, that was because visitors like Ibn Battuta had taught them. They had no written form of their own language, and lets be realistic, the percentage of Malians who could read and write Arabic was certainly well under 1%. Likely just certain members of their kings court.

[Bordric]

Originally posted by OSHZAK:

In sum, the Mali Empire was a thriving, sophisticated civilization that played a crucial role in global trade, culture, and scholarship. Attempts to diminish its accomplishments rely on selective readings of sources, a lack of historical context, and an unwillingness to engage with the extensive evidence of its achievements.

It was a slave nation and violent backwards empire. What accomplishments? None, what achievements, oh they enslaved more humans than all of the rest of the world. Guess that is one.

[Dio]

Originally posted by OSHZAK:

This interpretation of the Mali Empire is deeply flawed and reflects a significant misunderstanding of both historical sources and the context of West African civilizations. The claims made here ignore the overwhelming evidence of Mali’s sophistication, wealth, and influence during its golden age, and they rely on biased, out of context accounts to paint a distorted picture.

To begin with, Ibn Battuta’s observations must be understood within the context of his own biases. As a 14th century Muslim traveler, he often judged other cultures through the lens of his own values and religious norms. His accounts frequently included exaggerations, hearsay, and personal disapproval of practices unfamiliar to him. The story of cannibalism is unsubstantiated by any other contemporary or archaeological evidence and is likely a result of sensationalism or misunderstanding, not an accurate depiction of Malian society. Similarly, his remarks about marital practices reflect his cultural shock rather than an objective description of Mali’s social structure.

The architectural achievements of the Mali Empire, such as the Great Mosque of Djenné, are another point of misrepresentation. The mosque’s original construction dates back to the 13th century, during Mali’s peak, long before French colonization. While the structure was rebuilt in 1907, the techniques and materials used reflect a longstanding tradition of earthen architecture that was both practical and ingenious for the region’s climate. Maintaining the mosque with annual mud applications demonstrates community cohesion and sustainability, not primitiveness.

Timbuktu, far from being a "mere town," was one of the most important centers of trade, learning, and culture in the medieval world. The city was home to thousands of manuscripts on subjects such as astronomy, medicine, theology, and law, preserved in institutions like the Sankoré University. These texts demonstrate a rich intellectual tradition that connected West Africa to broader Islamic and global knowledge networks. The claim that Mali lacked scholars or intellectuals is patently false; figures like Ahmed Baba of Timbuktu, a renowned scholar, are clear evidence of the empire’s academic legacy.

The Mali Empire’s economic and political power was unparalleled in its time. Under rulers like Mansa Musa, Mali controlled vast resources of gold and salt, which were traded across the Sahara to North Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Mansa Musa’s pilgrimage to Mecca in 1324 was not just an expression of personal piety but a display of Mali’s wealth and global influence. His journey left a lasting impression on the Islamic world, further cementing Mali’s reputation as a powerful and prosperous state.

Finally, comparing the Mali Empire’s achievements to modern conditions is an ahistorical argument. The challenges faced by Mali today are the result of centuries of colonial exploitation and global inequalities, not an indication of its historical significance. To dismiss Mali’s achievements because of its current circumstances ignores the broader historical context.

In sum, the Mali Empire was a thriving, sophisticated civilization that played a crucial role in global trade, culture, and scholarship. Attempts to diminish its accomplishments rely on selective readings of sources, a lack of historical context, and an unwillingness to engage with the extensive evidence of its achievements.

There is so much propagandist cope here that its not worth addressing it all, because just your attempt at coping with the existence of cannibalism among Sub Saharans discredits everything you say. Its very common knowledge that vast majority of Sub Saharan Africans practiced cannibalism for pretty much all of human history. A lot of them still do, right now as we speak, humans are being eaten in Haiti.
When European explorers and colonialists went around exploring Africa, they commonly came across giant dozens of meters wide pits dug into the ground, filled with thousands of sacrificed slaves remains, and the stench of death permeating villages.

[Sgt. Flaw]

Originally posted by Dio:

Originally posted by Sgt. Flaw:

I mean they weren't as uncivilized as you're making them out to be but I will agree...WTF is a Malian doing in Bohemia?

Those "mud houses" look pretty well built TBH and would be pretty economical given their terrain.

Mali has lots of very rocky and mountaineous terrain, they could have easily created quarries, mined stone slabs and built actual stone houses, palaces and roads. But something was mysteriously handicapping them from doing this and limiting them to mud houses.

Then there are reasons...

You need to read more about Timbuktu rather than watching a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ video...

It was a trading hub...with tons of influence from Egypt and Saudi Arabia...they had a university lol

[Kain]

Originally posted by Bordric:

Originally posted by OSHZAK:

In sum, the Mali Empire was a thriving, sophisticated civilization that played a crucial role in global trade, culture, and scholarship. Attempts to diminish its accomplishments rely on selective readings of sources, a lack of historical context, and an unwillingness to engage with the extensive evidence of its achievements.

It was a slave nation and violent backwards empire. What accomplishments? None, what achievements, oh they enslaved more humans than all of the rest of the world. Guess that is one.

"According to the Arab historian al-Umari, Mansa Musa took with him 100 camel-loads of gold, each of which weighed 300 pounds. Seeing the immense wealth in Cairo inspired many stories about the glories of Timbuktu. In addition, the amount of gold which Mansa Musa brought to Egypt created inflation in the country. As a result of the hajj, Mali began appearing on the Map of the World in 1339."

Imagine bringing so much gold you cause inflation lol