Total betrayal from WH but not Steam - Pre-order refund was quick and painless!

[Ballistic]

Look how they did my homie Henry :(

I built a brand new system during the Holidays in large part with the anticipation of KCD2's release and like a sweet summer child I dreamt of the many hours that I would spend exploring the sequel to the fantastic first game which I also pre-ordered and sunk countless hours into along with the expansions. I enjoyed it so much I bought three copies on sale to share with my friends.

Oh how naive we were, to think that an unspoiled sequel would be delivered to us in this age of corporate owned AAA title slop. That somehow, globocorpo Vanguard/Embracer/Plaion and ultimately Vavra himself wouldn't take this beloved title and subject it along with our brother in Christ dear Henry to a thoroughly proper and brutal humiliation ritual just to let us know what time it is!

I think it's mostly been covered but I wanted to highlight the profound absurdity of injecting the "renaissance man" Musa from Sub-Saharan Africa into the game when either a Turk, Arab or Persian trader or nobleman would have sufficed and been infinitely more accurate and appropriate given the time period, region and political and economic situation of early 15th century Bohemian Kuttenberg. Having Musa lecture Henry on the imagined respect and dignity with which women were afforded in his kingdom would lead one to believe that our friend Musa had in fact not spent any time at all in his rulers kingdom! I suppose either subtlety was in short supply at warhorse studios or corpo execs demanded the most jarring addition to fulfill DEI requirements.
Finally, it apparently wasn't enough for WH and it's handlers to add more sexual content (of any nature) to satisfy corporate demands, they had to go ahead and retcon the main character Henry (out of all of the possible characters in the game) and have him engage in an incredulous storyline arc which would be wholly alien to the Henry which we knew just moments before in KCD1.

Thankfully, I got a full refund today through Steam for the Gold edition, I'll be spending that $120.33 CAD on a nice steak dinner and evening out. I'll play Vanguards' re-imagining of 15th century Bohemia and our protagonist Henry either for free sometime after release or perhaps if i'm feeling generous I'll pick up a copy for $4.99 when it's on sale a few years down the road.

[WastedTrojan]

Originally posted by theo:

What best outcome, I'm fine with resorting it in the favour of miners. Not that it matters since the decision is made by people who impersonate the bishop after killing the real one and intend to rob the place, and later reveal themselves lol.
He's the voice of neutrality and what else should he be.
Anyway I doubt your view of European history and motivations of political actors corresponds with reality. It's too idealized I suppose. Yes Ottomans were the main threat but between that and "Musa shouldn't be there" lies a bunch of logical leaps and missing premises, that is, you assume too much

Best outcome is the path toward reconciliation proposed by Musa. The Monastery is demanding all of the funds, the Brotherhood is demanding all of the funds, Musa is the only voice of reason saying there is enough to fund both.

That was European history. The battles of Kosovo and Nicopolis are even referenced in the game. I didn't even mention the motivations of political actors beyond the Catholic Church which did view Islam as the greatest threat to Europe.

You have to perform some serious mental gymnastics to do quests like Waldensians from KCD1 and get stopped by the Inquisition in KCD2 but then accept a Muslim in the Catholic Church Council. It's absurd.

[n0mad23]

I tried linking posts to European frescoes from the period actually showing African's (not Moors) from multiple areas.

Facts don't work on True Believers. The mental gymnastics are impressive.

[WastedTrojan]

Originally posted by n0mad23:

I tried linking posts to European frescoes from the period actually showing African's (not Moors) from multiple areas.

Facts don't work on True Believers. The mental gymnastics are impressive.

An African potentially being there is not unbelievable. Exceptionally rare, but not impossible. The character of Musa is unbelievable which makes sense as much of his dialogue is untrue. His inclusion as a Muslim in the Catholic Church Council is indefensible.

[theo]

Originally posted by WastedTrojan:

You have to perform some serious mental gymnastics to do quests like Waldensians from KCD1 and get stopped by the Inquisition in KCD2 but then accept a Muslim in the Catholic Church Council. It's absurd.

How's that even comparable. Musa is a foreign nobleman under king's protection, good luck inquisiting him.

[WastedTrojan]

Originally posted by theo:

Originally posted by WastedTrojan:

You have to perform some serious mental gymnastics to do quests like Waldensians from KCD1 and get stopped by the Inquisition in KCD2 but then accept a Muslim in the Catholic Church Council. It's absurd.

How's that even comparable. Musa is a foreign nobleman under king's protection, good luck inquisiting him.

It's a Catholic Church Council. They're making decisions on behalf of the Pope. It's believable that he would be housed for protection, but there is absolutely no way that he would be involved in decision making for the Catholic Church when he doesn't even worship Christ.

[theo]

Another thing is, how inquisition is shown in Waldensians and that road encounter is totally inaccurate. It's more appropriately shown in the Woman's Lot DLC (Johanka's quest). But I'm ok with such artistic allowances

[Donaldo Trumpado]

Originally posted by WastedTrojan:

Originally posted by theo:

How's that even comparable. Musa is a foreign nobleman under king's protection, good luck inquisiting him.

It's a Catholic Church Council. They're making decisions on behalf of the Pope. It's believable that he would be housed for protection, but there is absolutely no way that he would be involved in decision making for the Catholic Church when he doesn't even worship Christ.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet of the same god they worship, but do not believe in the Holy Trinity. The understanding that they worshiped the same god was well-known at the time, which is why Muslim scholars were sought-after additions to scientific endeavors in Europe since the time of Galen. Their observations in medicine, science and mathematics on the European continent is well-documented. It isn't woke because there happens to be one around. Would most people in Bohemia ever see a black man in their lives? Of course not. But were they around sometimes? Yep.

[jthecamel]

Originally posted by Ballistic:

Look how they did my homie Henry :(

I built a brand new system during the Holidays in large part with the anticipation of KCD2's release and like a sweet summer child I dreamt of the many hours that I would spend exploring the sequel to the fantastic first game which I also pre-ordered and sunk countless hours into along with the expansions. I enjoyed it so much I bought three copies on sale to share with my friends.

Oh how naive we were, to think that an unspoiled sequel would be delivered to us in this age of corporate owned AAA title slop. That somehow, globocorpo Vanguard/Embracer/Plaion and ultimately Vavra himself wouldn't take this beloved title and subject it along with our brother in Christ dear Henry to a thoroughly proper and brutal humiliation ritual just to let us know what time it is!

I think it's mostly been covered but I wanted to highlight the profound absurdity of injecting the "renaissance man" Musa from Sub-Saharan Africa into the game when either a Turk, Arab or Persian trader or nobleman would have sufficed and been infinitely more accurate and appropriate given the time period, region and political and economic situation of early 15th century Bohemian Kuttenberg. Having Musa lecture Henry on the imagined respect and dignity with which women were afforded in his kingdom would lead one to believe that our friend Musa had in fact not spent any time at all in his rulers kingdom! I suppose either subtlety was in short supply at warhorse studios or corpo execs demanded the most jarring addition to fulfill DEI requirements.
Finally, it apparently wasn't enough for WH and it's handlers to add more sexual content (of any nature) to satisfy corporate demands, they had to go ahead and retcon the main character Henry (out of all of the possible characters in the game) and have him engage in an incredulous storyline arc which would be wholly alien to the Henry which we knew just moments before in KCD1.

Thankfully, I got a full refund today through Steam for the Gold edition, I'll be spending that $120.33 CAD on a nice steak dinner and evening out. I'll play Vanguards' re-imagining of 15th century Bohemia and our protagonist Henry either for free sometime after release or perhaps if i'm feeling generous I'll pick up a copy for $4.99 when it's on sale a few years down the road.

The horse had long since perished, but over it remained a lathered Master Ballistic raining blows upon its rotting flesh. Each slash of the rod followed by his vengeful utterances.
"How dare you not adhere to my belief system!"
"Act in a manner I don't approve of, how dare you!"
"Highlight my inability to except others, how dare you"
Still the corpse remained inert, having long since surrendered its soul. No longer burdened by the weight of others expectations. Numbly awaiting the next undefended blow.

[WastedTrojan]

Originally posted by Donaldo Trumpado:

Originally posted by WastedTrojan:

It's a Catholic Church Council. They're making decisions on behalf of the Pope. It's believable that he would be housed for protection, but there is absolutely no way that he would be involved in decision making for the Catholic Church when he doesn't even worship Christ.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet of the same god they worship, but do not believe in the Holy Trinity. The understanding that they worshiped the same god was well-known at the time, which is why Muslim scholars were sought-after additions to scientific endeavors in Europe since the time of Galen. Their observations in medicine, science and mathematics on the European continent is well-documented. It isn't woke because there happens to be one around. Would most people in Bohemia ever see a black man in their lives? Of course not. But were they around sometimes? Yep.

Christians worship Christ, as in Christ is God. Muslims believe that Christ was just a prophet. There has never been any confusion that they worship the same God. Christ and Allah are not the same.

His inclusion in the game on it's own wouldn't be an issue. It's that they made him so unbelievable. His dialogue is straight lies, he makes Mali sound like Wakanda. He goes against every historic description of Mali, including the one by Ibn Battuta who he partly based on. He's a Muslim, shoehorning him into a Catholic Church council is beyond ridiculous.

I honestly didn't care when I saw him at Sigismund's camp. I knew that his dialogue was BS but I thought I would just be able to move on and ignore him. Didn't realize that he would be forced into the end game via absolutely unbelievable circumstances that stretch the bounds of historic fiction and flirt with fantasy.

[duncanjmcintyre]

'Christians' are a heretical Jewish sect who claim that Jebus was the messiah.

[Mr. Snek]

Originally posted by WastedTrojan:

Originally posted by Mr. Snek:

What a loser.

I suppose that you can give a plausible reason for a Muslim to be invited to make decisions in a Catholic Church council in Crusades Era Europe under King Sigismund who led the Crusade that was defeated at Nicopolis shortly before the events of this game.

Musa's inclusion is the most ham fisted forcing of DEI into the game. If you notice that he doesn't appear in any of the pre-rendered cut scenes near the end, it's seems that he was not initially written into the end of the game, but then shoehorned in to check a diversity box demanded by an investor.

You take Blackrock money, which they did via Embracer Group, you put Blackrock propaganda into your game.

Sure, I can. It is called historical fiction. You do understand what fiction means, yes?
The only people who cry about "DEI" are racist cuckolds. No one else cares. KCD II is brilliant historical fiction. And you are no historian. If we're to nitpick the one person of color as you are so focused on as being historically inaccurate. Then one must nitpick the entire thing for it is only fair and just to do so. But since you're a racist pos. You'd never agree to such a debate with an actual historian on this topic. You'd just grasp at buzzwords that you do not even understand.

[Mr. Snek]

Originally posted by Roberto:

Why do people keep necro'ing troll posts from months ago?

Because I can. If you don't like it. Block and move on, kid.

[n0mad23]

I've yet to find a religion that wasn't a heresy built on top of another older one.

[WastedTrojan]

Originally posted by Mr. Snek:

Sure, I can. It is called historical fiction. You do understand what fiction means, yes?
The only people who cry about "DEI" are racist cuckolds. No one else cares. KCD II is brilliant historical fiction. And you are no historian. If we're to nitpick the one person of color as you are so focused on as being historically inaccurate. Then one must nitpick the entire thing for it is only fair and just to do so. But since you're a racist pos. You'd never agree to such a debate with an actual historian on this topic. You'd just grasp at buzzwords that you do not even understand.

KCD1 is brilliant historic fiction. KCD2 is much more heavy on the fiction than the history. When you're writing historic fiction, you still have to make it believable. There are limits to creative liberties. I wouldn't have any problem debating a historian on the likelihood of a Muslim being invited to make decisions in a Catholic Church Council in the 15th century, I doubt any would actually debate on that matter. The answer is obvious.

People always try to boil objections down to bigotry. You know why Black characters like Franklin and CJ from the GTA series and Barrett from FF7 are popular? It's because they aren't forced into their stories. They fit into their environments. Musa is forced into this story. He isn't the creator's vision, he's a corporate vision imposed into the creator's story.

This is the problem with DEI, it's takes control away from the creative minds and puts into the hands of investors. I pick on Musa because he is the most egregious example of an unbelievable, out of place character obviously just added to check a box. He doesn't organically fit into the story.

[ehallsan]

lmao right, "in my country we treat women with respect"
no, in your country you mutilate the genitals of female infants.

the sheer gaul and audacity, they must think we're pretty dumb/ never read a book before.