The real problem with the Mali character

[type-1]

The real issue that I think needs to be addressed is not a out race. The main issue is that this character presents commentary on how wonderful women in Mali are treated in the region when in reality the treatment of women and girls in the region is absolutely shockingly bad. It feels like the developers are actually excusing and covering up the atrocious humans right gets violations that are normal in Mali.

I find it really problematic that the developers have chosen to portray a region renowned for abuse of women as a historical leader of fair treatment of women.

I believe that women and girls in Mali are treated worse than they were in Bohemia half a millennium ago and I think it's really inappropriate that the developers have chosen to portray such a perverse reimagining of reality.

https://data.unicef.org/wp-content/uploads/country_profiles/Mali/FGM_MLI.pdf

[Bokkop]

https://imgur.com/a/kSZ2n6S "Overall it is safer in our country and we treat women with greater respect"

[Syad]

You guys just don't understand modern society and what's good for women.

https://theconversation.com/female-genital-mutilation-is-on-the-rise-in-africa-disturbing-new-trends-are-driving-up-the-numbers-227175

Female genital mutilation is on the rise in Africa: disturbing new trends are driving up the numbers
May 12, 2024

According to the UN agency 230 million girls and women alive today have survived female genital mutilation, but live with the devastating consequences.

https://www.ihrda.org/2024/04/acerwc-43rd-os-ihrda-statement-on-child-marriage-and-fgm-in-mali/

Like many other countries, Mali has no law criminalizing female genital mutilation (FGM) and child marriage,

Mali’s National Demographic and Health Survey (EDSM, 2018) indicates that:

73% of girls aged 0-14 and 89% of women aged 15-49 are circumcised

14.3% of teenage girls aged 15-19 were married or in unions before they reached the age of 15.

[joxertm22]

Originally posted by type-1:

The real issue that I think needs to be addressed is not a out race. The main issue is that this character presents commentary on how wonderful women in Mali are treated in the region when in reality the treatment of women and girls in the region is absolutely shockingly bad.

It needs to be put into game context.
We have no idea what is happening there in the game.
Did Henry stumbled upon a massacred group of women who were also dismembered and then got such comment?
Or perhaps the doc is simply lying for some reason?
Just saying.

Wait till the game is out, no reason to speculate on lines of dialogue without a context.

[Loli Supremacy]

Originally posted by joxertm22:

Originally posted by type-1:

The real issue that I think needs to be addressed is not a out race. The main issue is that this character presents commentary on how wonderful women in Mali are treated in the region when in reality the treatment of women and girls in the region is absolutely shockingly bad.

It needs to be put into game context.
We have no idea what is happening there in the game.
Did Henry stumbled upon a massacred group of women who were also dismembered and then got such comment?
Or perhaps the doc is simply lying for some reason?
Just saying.

Wait till the game is out, no reason to speculate on lines of dialogue without a context.

There is no possible context to justify that line of dialogue, no possible speculation needed. The proof is right there, it's in the game, and it's terrible. As if a black person in Bohemia wasn't inaccurate enough - which Daniel Vavra himself disputed during the release of the first game.

[joxertm22]

Originally posted by Syad:

You guys just don't understand modern society and what's good for women.

The game is not about modern society.
And this is not a place for political activism. Just my opinion.

[AMEBA]

Originally posted by joxertm22:

Originally posted by type-1:

The real issue that I think needs to be addressed is not a out race. The main issue is that this character presents commentary on how wonderful women in Mali are treated in the region when in reality the treatment of women and girls in the region is absolutely shockingly bad.

It needs to be put into game context.
We have no idea what is happening there in the game.
Did Henry stumbled upon a massacred group of women who were also dismembered and then got such comment?
Or perhaps the doc is simply lying for some reason?
Just saying.

Wait till the game is out, no reason to speculate on lines of dialogue without a context.

2 days ago it was FAKE/NOT REAL/AI PHOTOSHOP... Now it's out of context, ok bro

[joxertm22]

Originally posted by Loli Supremacy:

There is no possible context to justify that line of dialogue, no possible speculation needed. The proof is right there, it's in the game, and it's terrible. As if a black person in Bohemia wasn't inaccurate enough - which Daniel Vavra himself disputed during the release of the first game.

Well, boohoo.

[joxertm22]

Originally posted by AMEBA:

2 days ago it was FAKE/NOT REAL/AI PHOTOSHOP... Now it's out of context, ok bro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsYi2VH2y6U

[MusicforMovies]

We are still lacking context. Does the character say this and then Henry pushes back? Is it said as a matter of national pride from the aspect of the Mali character? We are lacking context as to what interactions take place other than this alleged one line.

[Kain]

Brother, that's how many people speak about their cultures.

A muslim believes they treat their women with more respect than a Christian for instance, a Japanese definitely things their culture is better, so does a Jew or an American, or a Chinese.

A character saying their culture is better is the most realistic thing ever, and it's an RPG you don't HAVE to agree with said character.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by type-1:

I believe that women and girls in Mali are treated worse than they were in Bohemia half a millennium ago and I think it's really inappropriate that the developers have chosen to portray such a perverse reimagining of reality.

"i believe this thing but refuse to look at any evidence against my belief. Historical explanations of why women, and everyone who wasn't a wealthy man, were treated horribly at the time and setting of the game don't matter. Look at modern Mali, it is awful, therefore it must always have been exactly as awful,".

I've given you explanations of why what Musa says was true. It was only true briefly. By 1600, it wasn't anymore for sure. Now, it definitely isn't. In 1300, definitely wasn't. Popular rebellions in Europe and maliki Islam coincided. That's it. That's all. It was true for less than 2 centuries, but it was true. No matter how much you convince yourself otherwise with modern Mali, or refusal to do any research whatsoever, or insults about me being a "terrible historian" because I explained socio-political shift you don't like. It was true.

[AMEBA]

Originally posted by joxertm22:

Originally posted by AMEBA:

2 days ago it was FAKE/NOT REAL/AI PHOTOSHOP... Now it's out of context, ok bro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsYi2VH2y6U

This has been posted 20+ times by you now. You're practacly screaming I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE. I think you do care Hahahha

[Verole]

The character is inaccurate in this period of time he couldn't be there and why is he not wearing traditional malian clothes ? I mean this character just seems off as if it was added afterwards or asked to be added by Embracer

[Kain]

Originally posted by Verole:

The character is inaccurate in this period of time he couldn't be there and why is he not wearing traditional malian clothes ? I mean this character just seems off as if it was added afterwards or asked to be added by Embracer

I think that if you're a world traveller you would eventually end up using whatever is available depending on how far from home you were.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Verole:

The character is inaccurate in this period of time he couldn't be there and why is he not wearing traditional malian clothes ? I mean this character just seems off as if it was added afterwards or asked to be added by Embracer

He absolutely could be there...
Sigismund's army was made up of a lot of mercenaries.
They had just been in Dalmatia, in Venetian-controlled lands.
Who also controlled cities all over the central Med. Who were known to hire Muslim engineers, doctors and scholars.
This isn't like a viking in 900 or something. This is almost the very end of the Middle Ages, in a kingdom that is not far from the Mediterranean, in a period where Islamic doctors and engineers were far, far above European ones (except at siege engineering).