Is combat going to be approachable now?

[Oganesson.z118 👑]

It's good to have a hard to master system.

I agree that an untrained combatant should find it difficult to stay alive.

What untrained soldiers should not find it difficult to do, is to swing their sword - swinging an object, with good form or not, is easy to do.

TLDR: Give us easy to learn hard to master this time around

[Player One]

I like the idea of the combat system in KCD1 but it always felt clumsy to me. Maybe I didn't get high enough in skill levels but I never found it very fluent at all.

[pr1mus]

remove lock on and combat will improve a thousand fold.

[Bullwark]

Originally posted by pr1mus:

remove lock on and combat will improve a thousand fold.

Remove lock on an we don't have a combat system anymore.

What WH should work on is the fluidity of switching between opponents and add one or another move for a better transition. Hisotically there are techniques that would do exactly that.

[pr1mus]

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Remove lock on an we don't have a combat system anymore.

not true, they should just blatantly rip off Mordhau's system which already does what KC:D tried to do but better..

lock on will always feel clunky, any given ability to snap onto a different enemy will feel clunky because ideally you want to control where you're looking with your mouse.

[Bullwark]

Originally posted by pr1mus:

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Remove lock on an we don't have a combat system anymore.

not true, they should just blatantly rip off Mordhau's system which already does what KC:D tried to do but better..

lock on will always feel clunky, any given ability to snap onto a different enemy will feel clunky because ideally you want to control where you're looking with your mouse.

Of course it's true. KCD is about realism. Not about hacking through enemies. It would not work for such a game.

You cannot just simply rip out one system and expect it to work in another game. There are too many factors you'd have to take into account, like opponent movement, reaction, etc...
The whole dynamic of the game would change. For the worse even.

The combat system is what made KCD1 standout. It was great for 1:1 combat. Clunky for group encounters. And when they work on just that, we have a good system. Because you were ´not really supposed to fight groups in the first place. But for the inevitable occasions I hope they figured out how to improve!

Mordhau...I am really glad you have no say in this XD!

[pr1mus]

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Of course it's true. KCD is about realism. Not about hacking through enemies. It would not work for such a game.

what does realism have to do with necessitating clunky controls? i'm saying they should apply the control scheme that works without needing lock on, not that you should be cleaving people in half.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

You cannot just simply rip out one system and expect it to work in another game. There are too many factors you'd have to take into account, like opponent movement, reaction, etc...
The whole dynamic of the game would change. For the worse even.

i disagree, lock on sucks, Mordhau has mouse directed attack schemes as well that you can apply to KC:D so things like combos would remain intact, combo build up can be maintained by holding your crosshair on the enemy.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

The combat system is what made KCD1 standout. It was great for 1:1 combat. Clunky for group encounters. And when they work on just that, we have a good system. Because you were ´not really supposed to fight groups in the first place. But for the inevitable occasions I hope they figured out how to improve!

they're not going to get there with lock on, it'll remain a stagnant backpeddle fest while you're susceptible to getting hit by enemies off screen that you can't intuitively look at becasue your mouse is taken hostage by lock on.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Mordhau...I am really glad you have no say in this XD!

between Mordhau and KC:D only one game is notoriously ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful and ill designed for combat encounters featuring more than one enemy.

[Bullwark]

Originally posted by pr1mus:

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Of course it's true. KCD is about realism. Not about hacking through enemies. It would not work for such a game.

what does realism have to do with necessitating clunky controls? i'm saying they should apply the control scheme that works without needing lock on, not that you should be cleaving people in half.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

You cannot just simply rip out one system and expect it to work in another game. There are too many factors you'd have to take into account, like opponent movement, reaction, etc...
The whole dynamic of the game would change. For the worse even.

i disagree, lock on sucks, Mordhau has mouse directed attack schemes as well that you can apply to KC:D so things like combos would remain intact, combo build up can be maintained by holding your crosshair on the enemy.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

The combat system is what made KCD1 standout. It was great for 1:1 combat. Clunky for group encounters. And when they work on just that, we have a good system. Because you were ´not really supposed to fight groups in the first place. But for the inevitable occasions I hope they figured out how to improve!

they're not going to get there with lock on, it'll remain a stagnant backpeddle fest while you're susceptible to getting hit by enemies off screen that you can't intuitively look at becasue your mouse is taken hostage by lock on.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Mordhau...I am really glad you have no say in this XD!

between Mordhau and KC:D only one game is notoriously ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful and ill designed for combat encounters featuring more than one enemy.

Nothing what you wrote changes the fact, that you cannot swap in/out combat mechanics without considering the impact on the overall gameplay. They're not going to change a working system in order to change where this system is actually implemented.

KCDs system is good for 1:1 fights. I really enjoyed it. Gets you in the zone. And yes, the autolock switch is somewhat horrible when against multiple enemies. But you shouldn't fight against groups in the first place.
But for the occasions, there would be other ways to implement new techniques that would make it believeably better.
Historically there are methods to fend off multiple opponents, which allows for a more fluid transition.

And yes. Mordhau's system would change the game in an unrealistic way. If you have ever fought in real life you'll quickly see why and how ;).

In the recent 6 years I'm sure their system has changed to a point to make it more "accessible" for people like you, that didn't bother getting good with it.

They've already stated this, but to what extend, we'll see.

[Paul]

Yes, devs said lot of effort went into making combat more approachable. And also, if you do not want to engage with complex swordfighting, you can use axes or maces for more straight up bashing. Plus crossbows, bows, boomsticks.

[pr1mus]

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Nothing what you wrote changes the fact, that you cannot swap in/out combat mechanics without considering the impact on the overall gameplay.

the consequence of removing lock on is that it will positively impact gameplay.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

And yes, the autolock switch is somewhat horrible when against multiple enemies. But you shouldn't fight against groups in the first place.

so the answer to the dilemma is to not engage with the combat because it's not designed around fighting multiple enemies even though the game throws multiple enemies at you all the time, brilliant.

i've heard the same defense for Dark Souls because that game similarly has a combat system that's obviously not intended to fight multiple enemies at once as melee, at least that game didn't force lock on at all times.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

And yes. Mordhau's system would change the game in an unrealistic way. If you have ever fought in real life you'll quickly see why and how ;).

what does fighting in real life have to do with anything? do you lose your spatial awareness in real life as well like you do in KC:D? what is unrealistic about Mordhau that supersedes how "realistic" KC:D is? it is the same system.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

In the recent 6 years I'm sure their system has changed to a point to make it more "accessible" for people like you, that didn't bother getting good with it.

you literally said that the system is horrible for group combat and that you should just flee if it ever comes to that, the combat itself is piss easy to exploit due to instant win buttons like master strike and obviously my qualms are with how the camera works in relation to fighting multiple enemies, not that the combat itself is inaccessible or easy or trying to suggest this is some "get good" argument, i've beaten and done everything including the Rattay Tournament to completion and the camera still sucks, now what?

[Bullwark]

Originally posted by pr1mus:

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Nothing what you wrote changes the fact, that you cannot swap in/out combat mechanics without considering the impact on the overall gameplay.

the consequence of removing lock on is that it will positively impact gameplay.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

And yes, the autolock switch is somewhat horrible when against multiple enemies. But you shouldn't fight against groups in the first place.

so the answer to the dilemma is to not engage with the combat because it's not designed around fighting multiple enemies even though the game throws multiple enemies at you all the time, brilliant.

i've heard the same defense for Dark Souls because that game similarly has a combat system that's obviously not intended to fight multiple enemies at once as melee, at least that game didn't force lock on at all times.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

And yes. Mordhau's system would change the game in an unrealistic way. If you have ever fought in real life you'll quickly see why and how ;).

what does fighting in real life have to do with anything? do you lose your spatial awareness in real life as well like you do in KC:D? what is unrealistic about Mordhau that supersedes how "realistic" KC:D is? it is the same system.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

In the recent 6 years I'm sure their system has changed to a point to make it more "accessible" for people like you, that didn't bother getting good with it.

you literally said that the system is horrible for group combat and that you should just flee if it ever comes to that, the combat itself is piss easy to exploit due to instant win buttons like master strike and obviously my qualms are with how the camera works in relation to fighting multiple enemies, not that the combat itself is inaccessible or easy or trying to suggest this is some "get good" argument, i've beaten and done everything including the Rattay Tournament to completion and the camera still sucks, now what?

The consequence of removing the lock on, is to destroy the combat system. You don't seem to understand that this no solution. Again, I'm glad you have no say in it.
Make a mod for yourself then and enjoy!

Well, the game was not made for group combat obviously. Because it has a realistic approach. And fighting groups indeed was possible. Just didn't feel good.
No. Fleeing was not an option I had in mind. And never said that. I used a combination of exploting the stupid AI with archery and close combat. And fighting in KCD aside from 1:1 was a weak point.

But again: the solution is not swapping systems (and no it's not the same), or removing the lock on but to utilize it in a way that makes sense. To make target switching approachable and fluid. What's wrong with that?

Enemies that we'll fight will come in higher numbers, so they have to come up with some sort of solution. They already said they'll built upon their system and enhanced it with other weapons that do work a bit different. So we'll see.

Well, I am sorry that you won't enjoy this game then.
Just kidding. Don't care ;).

[pr1mus]

Originally posted by Bullwark:

The consequence of removing the lock on, is to destroy the combat system. You don't seem to understand that this no solution.

the combat system isn't reliant on lock on to work since it could easily work without.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Well, the game was not made for group combat obviously.

tell that to the quest designers to put bandit camps and gives you objectives to clear them, MOST enemy encounters aren't 1v1 so the combat system is already working at a disadvantage from the intended 1v1 experience.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

I used a combination of exploting the stupid AI with archery and close combat.

lol, and you were trying to call people out for not appreciating the clunky controls by saying they should get good while you're exploiting the AI and using bow and arrow? hilarious, you're like the last person that should have input on the combat.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

To make target switching approachable and fluid. What's wrong with that?

yeah, it's called removing lock on and letting you manually aim your attacks rather than being on rails selecting an enemy to attack like you're playing a JRPG.

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Enemies that we'll fight will come in higher numbers, so they have to come up with some sort of solution.

it's called removing lock on, cheers.

[Bullwark]

Whiner's gonna whine XD.
Don't forget to adapt to the combat system if you're going to play KCD2.
Take care.

[pr1mus]

Originally posted by Bullwark:

Don't forget to adapt to the combat system if you're going to play KCD2.

just like you adapted to combat in KCD by exploiting AI and using bow and arrow cause melee 2 hard? i think i'll manage.

[LordCorvin]

One thing I noticed is weird rubber banding in original KCD. Animations need to play out so the enemy would teleport up to your face to execute a block. Otherwise the combat was great.

[DwarfLivesMatter]

It sounds like a lot of people are asking for something other than another KCD game. I don't know what it is they want, but it's not KCD.