I'm mortified.

[Rook]

Many will disagree with me, that is fine. You don't have to agree with me, we're all entitled to our opinions, however..

I can't help but be somewhat disgusted by what Raidho asking of us, as players. What they have right now, that you are paying for, is a glorified demo. I get that it will be more in the future, that's not the argument, it's not even that the game is a scam. But Raidho makes between 2,000 and 10,000 usd A MONTH, variable on support, on Patreon.
Source [graphtreon.com]
Now they are asking us to fork over more money to buy a glorified demo? I'm sorry, but I cannot in good faith do that. And I can't suggest anyone else do that either.
I am a patron, I am handing money over to Raidho monthly, I played what they offered to patrons prior, I believe in the game and what they can do, but this practice personally has put an AWFUL taste in my mouth. I'm actually stunned that they've done this. There's no player character, there's a few systems, and it is, frankly, a buggy mess with very little explanation to it. This should not have been released, under any circumstance, and the fact they have and put a price tag on it, has absolutely stunned me.

Before anyone goes "ah well you're not a dev, you don't know what you're talking about!"
Yes, yes I am. I'm an animator for a few projects and before that a 2D and 3D artist. Those games did not have ANY income beside a few very generous set of people, and now one of them is one of the best survival multiplayer games Steam has to offer.
When it started, none of us were paid, we worked off our backs to produce something we could offer that was beyond "hey look, run around and jump in a tiny space". I may no longer be a part of that project, but the pride it gives me to this day is still immeasurable.

This? This is embarrassing. Raidho, please consider what you are doing, not just what it means for the people who are looking up to you to produce something we all want, but the developers that come after you who will think this practice is acceptable.

I want to clarify, I AM NOT ANGRY. I am disappointed. I am not spreading hate, or saying you should hate Raidho for this, but rather expressing an opinion that I know I am not the only one to have.

Edit: I've been made aware that they also had a successful Kickstarter, where they got €44,080 in funding.
Raidho... what on earth?

Further Edit:
They state their monetization model will include DLCs, of which we can expect breeds, tack, equipment, locations and quests

My case is rested, I can no longer in good faith support Raidho and Astride, not unless they suddenly and severely decide to change their practices. These people are not acting like an Indie company, they're acting like a bunch of greedy, out of touch corporate monsters.

[badgamer]

I understand that you're disappointed, and your feelings are 100% valid. However, Raidho had a deadline to get the game out in early access due to the funding they received from the government. They've made it as clear as possible that the current build is very bare bones, but also keep in mind that the game won't stay like this. The whole team has had to share the government, Kickstarter and Patreon funds as their only income until EA was released just now, and Norway is one of the most expensive countries on earth to live in. People who are on edge about the game are recommended to wait until it has more to offer, as it will stay in EA for many years until it's fully made

[Rook]

Originally posted by badgamer:

I understand that you're disappointed, and your feelings are 100% valid. However, Raidho had a deadline to get the game out in early access due to the funding they received from the government. They've made it as clear as possible that the current build is very bare bones, but also keep in mind that the game won't stay like this. The whole team has had to share the government, Kickstarter and Patreon funds as their only income until EA was released just now, and Norway is one of the most expensive countries on earth to live in. People who are on edge about the game are recommended to wait until it has more to offer, as it will stay in EA for many years until it's fully made

This is totally understandable, but from what I can see, this game has been in development for a year, or more. There are demos out for similar games that have so much more functionality and polish; I'm beginning to wonder if they were being pressured because they've literally been sitting on their hands with this. This is not a year's worth of development; this is a week at best.

Edit to say, that if it's not their fault, then it is simply not their fault. But here's hoping that whoever the driving force behind all this, whether it be a lead developer or the aforementioned government, sees what an absolute wreck this is and cleans up their act!

[thelefthorse]

You hit the nail on the head, Rook. I cannot believe anyone signed off on this -- whatever it is -- being sold (for $25!) under the 'early access' umbrella.

Like you, I am stunningly disappointed.

[Rook]

Originally posted by thelefthorse:

You hit the nail on the head, Rook. I cannot believe anyone signed off on this -- whatever it is -- being sold (for $25!) under the 'early access' umbrella.

Like you, I am stunningly disappointed.

And unfortunately, this won't be the end of it. :<
They state their monetization model will include DLCs, of which we can expect breeds, tack, equipment, locations and quests. Raidho is starting to sound like Electronic Arts.
"It's in the DLC."

[M.J.Erwig]

Personally I also expected more from it, than just a partial costumisation of a horse that you can walk around with a camera!....

[CowgirlMermaid]

I agree completely. I am no game developer, nor do I have any understanding on how making a game works, but €24 for this 'glorified demo', feels like a rip-off.

- You can't properly SEE your horse color and coat in the horse creator, due to HORRIBLE bright lighting and some wood separators in the way of having a good sideview.

- There's not even ANYWHERE in the game where is explains the controls, if a quick tutorial or pop-up is too difficult, I'd expect at least a list of what key work for what action in the settings/option under the 'Game Controls' tab, but there you only get Mouse or Controller sensitivity and if you want to hide the tack. (If i remember correctly, I only played for jsut 13min and then deleted the game from my PC)

- Even if you figure out the controls, the horse is pretty much uncontrollable to steer properly straight onto the jumps at a proper canter/galop

[KING LEANIDAS]

This feels what the patreon supporters should've gotten months ago. A year of development, a kickstarter, monthly patreon subscribers, and government funding... this feels like they know how to edit a trailer but are JUST learning how to make a game along the way. For people giving it good reviews just because it "has potential" is unfounded at this moment in time. The only potential it "has" is the "dream horse game" speech they communicate without any evidence of where the actual funding has gone in-game. If it was free I wouldn't love it either, as it is, cause there is no core game play to enjoy but at least it would be something to show fans that they are working on it. As it stands, a priced EA is just another way for under-delivering and getting paid for it.

While the trailer is good, this game should've made it clear it was a cinematic that showed no actual progress of its development. Attached to the trailer they continue to reinforce the ideal horse game they are making and by doing so I believe they are shooting themselves in the foot. Should've started with this demo from the beginning, before charging people, to actually state where the game will go from here and let people decide if they believe it's the right project for them. Charging money with a cinematic trailer full of non-existent game play mechanics is a misleading attempt to get money from horse game enthusiasts.

[Lilla]

This Early Access took place about 2-3 years too early. For today, it's not a game but only a poor, bugged demo, which should be free. BTW If after a year of creating the game we only get this, I do not believe that this game will be completed at all even in 3 years...

[Rattle]

I'm just gonna clear this up.

I checked out the source, and if you go by the entire lifetime, they made around 3-4k a month. Please keep in mind, this includes salaries and living expenses for five people. Not including the renting of the office they work out of.

They did receive 40k at the start of the Kickstarter and outside help from sponsors. That means that, at most, they got 36k (if we go by 3 k for every month for 12 months) plus 40k for a grand total of 76k for an entire year to pay for salaries and living expenses for five people. We don't know how much they made per grant.

Let's say it was 100k in total.

That brings us to 176k

The average living cost in Norway is 1k per person (without rent) rent is around 1k as well.

That is 2k per person, at least, times that by five for each person working there and we got 10k every month that needs to be paid. Times that with 12 for a whole year and we get 120k they had to spend in the last year alone just on living expenses.

And that does not include the renting of offices.

My point I'm making, the amount of money sounds like a lot, but it's really just about enough to keep them going. To be fair, I don't know how much they received in grants, so, I will admit I'm guessing here.

But the real issue is time. In one year they focused on coat, animations and a horse model. Plus the arena. It does not sound like a lot, especially when games like Unbridled just drop a demo like that.

The difference is, they built their game up from scratch. There are no store-bought assets in this game. As a result, the work just takes a lot more. If they'd grabbed store-bought assets, cobbled it together and dropped it in the world, we would have a much 'better' game. But it would not have that high of a quality.

As for the EA itself. Yes, it was too early, I don't argue that point, and yes it is very expensive for what it is. But please don't think that the amount of money they've made so far is too much for making a game from the ground up.

Just wanted to share my two scents on the matter. I could be wrong, and hey if you think I am, let me know why!

[SΞNZA]

Originally posted by Rattle:

I'm just gonna clear this up.

I checked out the source, and if you go by the entire lifetime, they made around 3-4k a month. Please keep in mind, this includes salaries and living expenses for five people. Not including the renting of the office they work out of.

They did receive 40k at the start of the Kickstarter and outside help from sponsors. That means that, at most, they got 36k (if we go by 3 k for every month for 12 months) plus 40k for a grand total of 76k for an entire year to pay for salaries and living expenses for five people. We don't know how much they made per grant.

Let's say it was 100k in total.

That brings us to 176k

The average living cost in Norway is 1k per person (without rent) rent is around 1k as well.

That is 2k per person, at least, times that by five for each person working there and we got 10k every month that needs to be paid. Times that with 12 for a whole year and we get 120k they had to spend in the last year alone just on living expenses.

And that does not include the renting of offices.

My point I'm making, the amount of money sounds like a lot, but it's really just about enough to keep them going. To be fair, I don't know how much they received in grants, so, I will admit I'm guessing here.

But the real issue is time. In one year they focused on coat, animations and a horse model. Plus the arena. It does not sound like a lot, especially when games like Unbridled just drop a demo like that.

The difference is, they built their game up from scratch. There are no store-bought assets in this game. As a result, the work just takes a lot more. If they'd grabbed store-bought assets, cobbled it together and dropped it in the world, we would have a much 'better' game. But it would not have that high of a quality.

As for the EA itself. Yes, it was too early, I don't argue that point, and yes it is very expensive for what it is. But please don't think that the amount of money they've made so far is too much for making a game from the ground up.

Just wanted to share my two scents on the matter. I could be wrong, and hey if you think I am, let me know why!

100% agree with you there! It takes a lot. Yes the demo is less than bare bones, but the few bones we got in there look absolutely amazing. The animations and the model look unfinished and weird for the time being, but imagine a little more time being put into polishing them. To be fair, to this day i haven't seen better gait animations than the ones in Astride, even though not finished. Not even RDR2 (Although they definitely win the Realistic-look aspect and maybe the extended canter).


And last but not least, i love you Rattle! Thank you for putting so much time and effort into your research to make your videos. I always enjoy watching them.

[RainbowDragonz]

Originally posted by badgamer:

I understand that you're disappointed, and your feelings are 100% valid. However, Raidho had a deadline to get the game out in early access due to the funding they received from the government. They've made it as clear as possible that the current build is very bare bones, but also keep in mind that the game won't stay like this. The whole team has had to share the government, Kickstarter and Patreon funds as their only income until EA was released just now, and Norway is one of the most expensive countries on earth to live in. People who are on edge about the game are recommended to wait until it has more to offer, as it will stay in EA for many years until it's fully made

I completely get this but does anyone know, did they have a deadline for EA release alone, or did they have a deadline for release and a minimum price they had to release it with to gain government funding? I would be interested to know how much control they actually had over the pricing of the EA.

[NerdyGem]

I supported the patreon for a few months last year, and that enabled me to get a steam key for the early access. I must have paid about £15 in total, an amount I was happy to donate to a game in development even before they had a demo/EA to offer me. Not everyone is in that position.

In all honestly, I don't think I'd pay £20 for the EA in it's current state. That said, the FAQ here on steam says they aim to add content updates (not just patches) every 1-2 months. (Bear in mind it might take longer in reality - another game I play, which is fully released but still supported by the devs, had to delay a major update by a YEAR due to bugs and feedback, but it was worth it imo.) Personally I'm optimistic that by the end of the year there will be enough to the game to justify the price. I'm sure the devs are aware of that, as a few people have discussed the technicalities with them going EA and securing funding from it.

My advice that if you're not happy paying the current price for the current version of the game, don't. But don't write it off completely. Check back in every now and then and consider if it's worth your time and money yet. Bear in mind the final version is estimated to be ready in 2026, and that could get pushed back - it's a long road ahead, but this way more people can support the game and see where their money is going. A wider pool of bug reports will also help.

As with any early access game, only pay what you'd be willing to lose, and only if you would be OK with the game never developing beyond this point. I've found real gems through EA that take years to complete, and I've also found ones which promise the Earth and are abandoned. If the money-to-content ratio is an issue for you, hold off for now. But I've already put my money down and want to see where this game goes.

[roseponies]

I don't think the devs know what they are doing. It feels like they are learning to program as they work on the game. It breaks my heart to think a little girl might see this game, buy it, and be so disappointed to have spent $25 whole dollars for what should be a free demo.

[Lightingale]

I didn't know about the kickstarter or the discord for this game. I've put my trust in my fair share of early access games.. some turned out fantastic, and some crashed. I've never PAID for an early access with so little gameplay.. I'd expect a few hours to explore the game, knowing that there's more coming. This COULD have been a demo if they had something new to showcase re. horse animations or literally any kind of gameplay at all.

This doesn't even offer that. Literally just a horse walking simulator with some wonky jump mechanics.

This is NOT how you go into Early Release. Whoever pushed for this may have killed this game before it even launched.

I subscribed to updates about this game, but I also requested a refund. I'll need to see more from this team before I put money behind it.

[𝔄𝔭𝔭𝔞𝔯𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said. It's barely even a demo. I could not believe my eyes yesterday, having followed the development the past year and been a Kickstarter. I've watched a lot of Early Access games and this is absolutely nowhere near acceptable, nor can the price be justified for the mere ***hope*** of any actual gameplay. I fear most support they had will shrivel up now.