Regarding the lack of Marriage in SunnySide

[FemChefSR1]

Moving forward, this will be the only place in the discussion board where we will allow discussions about marriage, children, swimsuits, and bikinis, in SunnySide. All posts about these topics anywhere in the Steam Discussions outside of this thread will be locked/deleted in the future under the suspicion that they are coming from an alternate account of the one user, and the account will be banned immediately in the interest of protecting the community from continued harassment and spam.

We've made this decision as a result of the continued harassment from one user, across multiple accounts and platforms, since the end of our Kickstarter campaign. Even though we have answered these questions before, they continue to harass us (and other farming games, for various reasons), and we don't have the bandwidth to continue to investigate and differentiate legitimate concerns versus spam.

As game developers, it is our absolute pleasure to discuss our decisions for game design with our community and we highly encourage discussions (you can find them here in this discussion board, on Discord, Youtube comments, and via our podcast), but sadly we have no way to determine who is a troll and who has legitimate concerns. Continued harassment over the same topic has stressed our ability to maintain the clear communication and transparency that we strive for, and our number one priority will always be to protect the community. So if, as a player, you have a legitimate concern about marriage/children in SunnySide and would like to discuss it, we are more than happy to do so. You can email us at [e-mail]. All emails from the person who has been harassing us will be ignored, deleted, and blocked.

To be clear: negative reviews of SunnySide are welcome if they reflect the genuine perspective of the player posting them. You can and will find multiple instances of negative or critical feedback from the community, and we vow to never delete or hide negative perspectives. However, creating multiple alternate accounts with the goal of creating a false collective narrative is disingenuous and harms the entire community, and will be met with harsh moderation moving forward.


I've collected some of the various communications with our Kickstarter backers over the years regarding marriage and why we made the decision to change the system from "marriage" to "romance". I hope this helps the Steam community to understand why we made the decisions that we did. <3

Another note: If we were to decide to add marriage/kids to SunnySide, it would likely take about a year and a half of development, and would probably cost about $200,000 (if not more). Just so people get an idea. <3


From Discord Polls:

"We're pinging you guys, because as always we really value the input of the community. Y'all are the ones we are making this game for, so we want to get your perspective on things, specially when we struggle to make decisions that would impact you all the most.

1. How important is the marriage/children mechanic?
-Essentially, we want to know how badly you all want this. A lot of people have been asking and you've probably seen us respond with "we can't decide", and that's because we can't. Here's our perspective:
The story for SunnySide is being written so that it sort of covers 5 ish years within the game. Now, this doesn't mean you can't play for longer than that, as there are further opportunities to expand your farm and grow new items and become a farming mogul, but the actual stories, for now, are about that time. Additionally, the entire romancing system is much more complex than "give gift, get waifu.". You'll be going on dates, finding out about personality traits, love languages, and the social sim in general is going to be a lot more robust. So the question is: would removing the "goal" of marriage and family take away from the experience of romances?
On one hand, we know it's an established mechanic in the genre as a call back to the early Harvest Moon games. On the other hand, we fear that it may be too much work to program in a "life after marriage" when we can instead spend out time focusing on making the road to that marriage more interesting.
So here are your options:

A- Marriage and children are too important a mechanic to leave out. I will happily wait longer for the core game if it means having a life after marriage and seeing my family on my farm.
B- I want marriage and children, but I am willing to see that mechanic pushed to an expansion or even a sequel to the game (we already have a plan for something like this, it's one of the things being debated)
C- Marriage and children aren't necessary to the genre, and I would happily give them up if it means having more options for date locations, romance selections, and interesting story telling.
D - I'm not sure how I feel about this/my opinion isn't listed here. I will explain my perspective in the ⁠game-suggestions channel
E- I feel incredibly passionate that marriage and children need to be in the base game, and if they aren't, then I won't buy it/will ask for a refund

Please choose the letter that corresponds to your perspective on Marriage/children.
NOTE: In this case, marriage committed partner, etc all relate to the NPC moving in with you and then pursuing having a family. Whatever words you want to use to describe that whole situation is fine, we're just going with "marriage" here for simplicity.
We are open to everyone's opinion, but we can't promise that a majority selection will be what we go with. This stuff is complicated.
Thanks to everyone who has and continues to take the time to show us appreciation, love, patience, and kindness.

Only 2 people in this poll responded that they would want a refund if marriage was not included in SunnySide.


From our FAQ:

Will SunnySide have Marriage and/or Kids?
Short Answer: No.
Long Answer From Rainy:
"Back when SunnySide was a solo project, and before Kickstarter, I didn't have too many ideas about this part of the game. To me, back then SunnySide was a much smaller, shorter game and I didn't give marriage much thought outside of having the player be able to marry a selection of NPCs as it has always been done in classic farming sims.

Once I decided to put the project on Kickstarter, I started thinking about it a lot more seriously but was careful about my language as I myself am not a good narrative writer. I didn't want to give too many promises about how the social/narrative part of the game would work since even the success of the campaign was uncertain at that time. But since the project gained some traction, and we expanded the team and hired the much needed help, we sat down to finalise how we want to use the time we have left to make the best game we could.

As many of you know, one of the main aspects of the game is the social simulation, and we're taking every chance to innovate and take a much deeper look at how we could make the NPCs and story alive and memorable. One of the earliest points of discussion for us has been marriage, and very early on we were keen on taking a different route.
So with that in mind we had to think, what is it about the marriage that is most important to the player? The big answer that came back from our research was "a milestone to solidify the relationship". With that discovery now we had many many more options to take to convey the same feeling and pacing to the players.

With all of that in mind, SunnySide's story and social system is now built around having a "confession" moment in every dateable NPCs storyline. And I am happy to say, that's not all an NPC has to offer, you have friendship stories, town stories, NPC specific stories, and romance stories is an extension to all of that. Think of it more like Persona, you get to know the person, find out about their struggles in life, go out on dates and hangouts with them and then finally if you fit into their sexual preference, confess your love to them.

Now I like to also mention, since we made this decision we have taken every opportunity to communicate this to all of our followers, be it through Discord or our livestreams. I know not everyone has the opportunity to catch up with all of that so I'm more than happy to provide as much info as I can to our community. This was my personal answer but 1. I'm not the only director of the game and 2. I am not the narrative director so the person behind most of these awesome designs, FemChef (Sydney) will explain all of this further in the upcoming Let's Play Episode if you guys like to watch that!"


From Us (the Developers) in various Steam Discussions:

"SunnySide is designed very differently. There isn't a specific "house" on your farm in a pre-determined location. You can build whatever house you want, wherever you want and as many as you want. The game is designed as open as unless you have a bed you can sleep, it is up to you as the player to then decide for yourself what a house even means. Think of it like Minecraft.

With that in mind, the idea of moving in isn't something we can do easily and requires a lot of finesse."

"We never explicitly promised marriage in the Kickstarter. It was something we considered in the beginning, but we decided that our only option was to do it right or to not do it at all. Marriage is often one of the most complained about features in farming games, specifically how unsatisfying it is. We did not want to mess it up, so we asked the community on Discord for their opinion. That opinion, for the most part, was split on the topic. Many wanted it, but agreed that it wasn't worth it if it wasn't implemented well.

For this reason, we decided to emulate relationships in Persona, which is where a lot of the inspiration for SunnySide came from. In Persona, if you're not familiar with it, you have cutscenes with various NPCs where you learn more about them and their story and slowly grow closer to them, but there is no marriage involved.

Additionally, we wanted to modernize the genre a bit, and the truth is, marriage and kids isn't a reality for everyone. We wanted the story to be about YOU, the player, specifically, rather than having it be a game that was all about finding someone to marry.

We understand that this is a controversial decision, and some people will not want to play SunnySide because we did not include marriage, but we stand by our decision. Not including marriage left more time and word count to focus on deeper stories and more robust mechanics across the game, and we're proud of that.

To be clear, there IS romance. And there is a satisfying culmination to each of the romances, it just isn't a wedding.

Thanks for taking the time to share your feelings on the matter. We really do appreciate it, and we're actively looking at ways to create more satisfying romance mechanics for future games. We try to be as transparent with out community as possible, so I hope this alleviated at least some of your concerns. <3"

"We have addressed the question of marriage multiple times, across multiple platforms, and specifically with our backers. This particular user (using multiple names across multiple platforms) has been harassing us for years, and we simply don't have the time or bandwidth to continue to address the same question over and over.

But for clarity:

Marriage was never specifically promised in the KickStarter campaign. It was planned for awhile, and was definitely something that we wanted, but the moment we knew that we wanted to change the design of the system as a result of not being able to do it justice, we asked our backers for their opinions, and we've been communicating with them about their expectations ever since. Every Kickstarter and Backerkit backer has the opportunity to communicate their expectations with us, and many of them have and continue to do so. (This particular user does not have access to those communications, because even though they "pledged a dollar" they never actually paid it. I should also mention that a number of their accounts were banned on KickStarter, Steam, Twitter, and YouTube, across multiple farming campaigns, for harassment of all the developers.)

In short: We wanted marriage, but we realized very early in development that we would not be able to do the system the justice it deserves. We never marketed SunnySide as a marriage simulator, and everything that was oriented to marriage has been modified to fit a comprehensive romance system (romance is still a major part of the game). We have been open, honest, and transparent about this aspect of the game, but this particular user continues to ask us about it (and about swimsuits/bikinis for some reason).

Unfortunately, Kickstarter campaigns are put together during the very beginning stages of making a game (what we call pre-production) and a lot of things come up during development that require changes to be made. You simply never know what is actually possible or will look good, similar to film being left on the cutting room floor and scenes being dropped from movies) For instance, we were unable to include a "save any time" feature (even though we wanted one) due to programming limitations, but we've never tried to hide anything from the community.

As for why the posts are deleted: at this point, we feel that we have answered the question enough times to not justify spending any more time on answering it, especially when we know that it's always from the same person (if you check their comments on other games, you'll understand how we know it's the same person)

That said, for full transparency: I'll create a pinned post in the Steam Discussions with our responses about marriage, and any posts about the subject outside of that area will continue to be deleted (especially posts in unrelated threads) to prevent spamming of the message board/ continued harassment."

[TamanduaGirl]

This peaks one question can you confess love to more than one person? If no, is there any sort of break up mechanism after the solidifying confession?

[CloudyChai]

Originally posted by TamanduaGirl:

This peaks one question can you confess love to more than one person? If no, is there any sort of break up mechanism after the solidifying confession?

You can confess to multiple NPCs and have multiple romances active at once yes! However, most romance storylines have a "lock-in" point which asks if you'd like to commit to a relationship. If you say yes, you can no longer date any other NPC after that point. The idea is to allow you to explore multiple romance storylines and decide which one you'd like to pursue to the end.

You can break-up with any active romance before the lock-in point as well, but not after.

[TamanduaGirl]

Originally posted by Rainy:

You can confess to multiple NPCs and have multiple romances active at once yes! However, most romance storylines have a "lock-in" point which asks if you'd like to commit to a relationship. If you say yes, you can no longer date any other NPC after that point. The idea is to allow you to explore multiple romance storylines and decide which one you'd like to pursue to the end.

You can break-up with any active romance before the lock-in point as well, but not after.

Thank you.

[Wardka]

I have to ask, out of curiosity - this post briefly mentions swimsuits and bikinis alongside the marriage discussion, but doesn't elaborate. What's that all about?

[RadKit]

I've been hoping for a new simlife game for a long time that has a look similar to this game that at least includes the feature to have someone move in with you, become a partner, and have post-max relationship events together like dates, meals, arguments, sex (fade to black, or more, GASP, I know but hey I'm an adult, don't shame me for liking adult things, and no I don't mean AO stuff, just mature stuff).

You know like an actual relationship... something to make it feel like you aren't just spending the majority of your time in it alone, for only yourself.

If that means marriage or kids, to me, is neither here nor there, nor does it seem that what I want fits into any of those letter choices.

Now it sounds like this game is probably not going to have what I'm looking for, and that is okay, I will probably still eventually get the game and play it, but that also doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly stop wanting what I want...

Best of luck.

P.S. This... drama... is basically why I quit crowdfunding a couple of years ago, it just is not a good environment for developers or customers in anyway other than money collection. Also I've never heard of this game until today.

[Kiel]

Originally posted by Wardka:

I have to ask, out of curiosity - this post briefly mentions swimsuits and bikinis alongside the marriage discussion, but doesn't elaborate. What's that all about?

The troll user was fixated on the idea that bikini/swimsuit alternate character models were also something that had at some point been promised, along with the marriage functionality. Dev feedback and the user's pattern of behavior suggests that this was never actually a committed feature (though it's possible it may have been discussed as an option that could be explored), but the user wouldn't let go of that fact as an oft-reiterated grievance in their one-person crusade.

While I hate to stereotype, a trope on the Internet exists for the kind of individual that would be fixated on both of those things--and especially in a game with Japanese overtones and a heavy helping of anime aesthetics--and the behavior of that user unfortunately aligns all too well with said trope.

[Poison Cackler]

The problematic user is also disturbingly focused on children in the games, and supplying them with swimsuits as well.

They also have well over a dozen alt accounts, that they will switch to to agree with them self...then start claiming their opinion is the majority...and will also switch alts to harass and threaten other users. I have personally seen them switch between 11 different alt account before a thread gets locked/deleted. They are an absolute plague on nearly every life/farming simulation, and this is the first game forum where something is being done about them, and I can not thank the devs enough for this.

To stay on the topic, I'm okay with a lack of marriage - more often than not, your spouse loses all personality after getting married, so I would love to see a game with more interaction beforehand to flesh them out as characters. I kind of look at Sunny Side as a farming sim/visual novel hybrid, where it's all about getting to really know who you are pursuing.

[abelwright92]

I'm good with no marriage or kids but will there be a thing where can move in? If not can you stay over at their house or anything that shows some level of commitment/the convenience of not having to seek them out every day like every other NPC?

[CloudyChai]

Originally posted by abelwright92:

I'm good with no marriage or kids but will there be a thing where can move in? If not can you stay over at their house or anything that shows some level of commitment/the convenience of not having to seek them out every day like every other NPC?

To be completely honest with you, we just don't have the manpower to implement such a feature into the game, at least not before releasing it and trying to expand a little bit. It's something that would affect a lot of aspects of the game and when we know we have the ability to do it, we'll certainly consider it as others have requested it too :)

[🌸 s u n f l o w e r 🌸]

Aw man, so they can't even move in with you? I've been looking forward to this game for so long but it's just starting to feel a little disappointing now. It probably won't be a first day buy for me now, romantic relationships are my favorite part of these games. It doesn't sound like it'll be a "full" game yet.

[Ghosted]

I think adding the marriage and what not as its own entity. I of course am not big into the relationship side of these games. Though, that is just me. I just played the demo and I am floored on how beautiful and well crafted it is. I love the creative ideas that went into it. If you ask me, adding it as a DLC would be the best alternative in my opinion. This also allows us (the ones who aren't big with relationships) to enjoy the game, gives the ability of getting married/having children for those who want it later on, and can please both sides. I think this should eventually be a free DLC. Just to ward off the frustration for it further. I think y'all are doing great. I am quite pleased and cannot wait!

[Allouz]

Honestly speaking i have played majority of the farming simulation games that are out there, both on steam and on other consoles. I am just a sucker when it comes to romance and then farming and decorating. I have been looking on thing game for a few years now and i was excited because it was hinting on all the things i wanted.

With all honesty i don't care about marriage nor children since usually it takes so long to reach there to the point the story is done and all is left is expand and repeat. I love the romance , the whole process of romance the character i like, go on dates get them their favorite food and see a reaction.

Those are the most important for me, now if a game has marriage/children is welcomed but not necessary if i had to choose one thing it would be maybe move in together because i find it cute. What i would *hate* to see is generic lines like any other NPC. So if the developers think they can give us a better game without marriage and children i don't mind at all. I even think the DLC option is great since it will give a reason for people to come back in the game (if a lot time has pass and have done with most things) or are still keep going and that is the only thing missing from their Sunny days in the game.

But with all that been said i am looking forward to this game no matter what!

[CloudyChai]

Thank you all! To reiterate, SunnySide has romance and quite a hefty system for it too. Every romanceable character has multiple romance scenes, and some hangout locations have romance-specific activities that are only available when going out on a date (such as a romantic dinner at Naka!).

Some characters are quicker to say yes to a confession, while others take much longer to become comfortable with you and rather be your friend before taking it a step further, and that's NPC-specific!

As for the potential for a marriage DLC.. on a personal note, if I'm charging for a new addition to the game I want to make sure there is enough meat there to warrant a price. So if we do marriage DLC at some point, we're going to try our best to ensure it is extensive enough to be worth your money. We don't think we can do it justice for release and it would be a system that we wouldn't be proud of to give to players.

[Caitfukz]

If you were to release the option for marriage/kids in a DLC, some things you could do to really flesh it out could be adding a small map or using the empty space on the map for wedding/honeymoon venues, you could make a whole short questline about planning the wedding, inviting npcs to be bridesmaids or groomsman, small parties like wedding showers etc, I think you guys could really do it justice that way and it gives players more opportunity to be a part of planning what specifically we'd want to see in a DLc like that.

[Allouz]

Originally posted by Caitfukz:

If you were to release the option for marriage/kids in a DLC, some things you could do to really flesh it out could be adding a small map or using the empty space on the map for wedding/honeymoon venues, you could make a whole short questline about planning the wedding, inviting npcs to be bridesmaids or groomsman, small parties like wedding showers etc, I think you guys could really do it justice that way and it gives players more opportunity to be a part of planning what specifically we'd want to see in a DLc like that.

Actually this is a really good idea. Is not that much but it sounds so wholesome, it can give the game even more depth compare to all the other sim-life games that give everything in the base game but it just feels empty. Like how someone mentioned above it just a short cut-scene ceremony with not much of a thought in it.