Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
Just I don't wanna spoil any information for you and ruin your experience :D
ME1: The Reapers are coming!
ME2: The Reapers are still coming!
ME3: What in the hell did I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tell you?!
Oh. Right.
No, I played part of ME2 a few years ago on th 360. I'm thinking about buying 2 and 3 on PC sometime soon.
So nevermind, I guess? NO UNMARKED SPOILZ FOR 2 and 3. Sorry.
lawlz
1)They noticed that Saren was chock full of cybernetics when he appeared via hologram in ME1.
2)They didn't go 100% against their word in ME2, after ME1.
3)They took Shepard's word more seriously into ME2-ME3.
Having been 'part of the Mass Effect community' since 2009-2010ish, I've seen that the Council wasn't regarded too negatively by people until ME2, when it seems they went Full Stupid. In ME1, aside from a few smaller details (some of which can be handwaved as just a problem of game production, like the holo-Saren point I made above), they could be seen as rational enough, and letting them die is less "DIE STUPID COUNCIL DIE" and more "HUMANITY GRAB POWAH MUAHAHA" or at least "Council isn't ready for the upcoming fight."
"DIE STUPID COUNCIL DIE" becomes the fanbase sentiment more as the series goes on.
Get ME2 and ME3, seriously. They're great games. Don't let people tell you ME3 is bad because of it's ending, it's not; that's just the ending they're talking about. There's a whole rest of the game that's awesome, and anyway the ending is fridge brilliance.
Took me two years to "get" it, but the ending is actually really interesting.
Sounds good. Given the ratio of ending yays to nays, I'm afraid I can't bank on ME3's ending, but I'll probably play them both anyway.
Look at the real world. Just getting people to sit down and talk about climate change is a monumental effort, never mind getting people to actually commit to something. But you can bet that if the sea had risen and swallowed Shanghai China would be a lot more willing to talk. No-one wants to believe in a global threat until it's already too late.
I also see why they don't believe sheperd in ME2 given his dealings with a very disreputable organisation. And, remember Sovereign is the only reaper they've seen by this point. The vigil at Ilos is destroyed, and the rest of the reapers would be believed to be in dark space still, dormant. No real reason to prepare for a war which may never come.
And by the time you get to ME3 honestly there's not a whole lot of preparation that could have been done anyway the crucible is a massive effort that requires the expertise and resources of several races. Even if people believed Sheperd and Liara had found the blueprints in the mars archive they probably wouldn't have signed on to build it til the reapers were on their doorstep.
*POSSIBLE SPOILERS*
While each of the Council's reasons for all this individually make enough sense, it is made pretty clear that they are ultimately of their position on the Reapers due to denial. In ME1, it is mostly pure reasoning. In ME2, it is more nervous rationalization. In ME3, they're flat out denialists, unwilling to do too much to upset their system.
They're portrayed justttttt positively enough that many players won't completely condemn them (though many players still do), but I don't get any impression that we're supposed to *easily* see from their POV. Partially because Shepard's POV is simply more correct about things.
Cerberus may have been disreputable, but it was also Alliance Black Ops and their total condemnation of Cerberus was more politically expedient than intelligent. They pledged support against the Reapers in ME1 yet when given the chance, they turned their backs on that. They disregard Shepard's words even when he was correct enough in the past that the Citadel itself was nearly taken and the Council nearly (or was outright) slain.
While there's all sorts of theories - at least when we take the story literally, the Council are denialists, guilty of the very thing they accuse Shepard of. They make up whatever narrative they need to in order to continue galactic civilization, their system, their sense of order, for as long as possible. And its a pretty good civilization, a pretty good system, a pretty good sense of order, so I understand their wish to call Sovereign a Geth ship, Shepard an unhinged disgrace, and the Reapers a myth. But its just a wish, and they eventually had to face their doom and the consequence for not preparing for war as much as (at least reasonably) possible.
And they could have done a lot in 2-3 years. Dreadnaught production could have skyrocketed, AI research could have been allowed and anti-Reaper measures pursued (but that's a Cerberus thing right? And dangerous? Pffft). Banished/Isolationist forces like Batarians and Omega/Terminus and Krogan could have been at least secretly armed. Efforts could have been taken to have a 2nd galactic political center in case the Citadel is taken, the Citadel itself could have been investigated, and Prothian tech could have been avidly searched for (instead of leaving it mostly up to the Alliance and Liara).
I know its the writers' will to make this stuff happen/not happen, but in the narrative, the Council were, at best, half as good at their job as they should have been - able to hold onto the existing galactic society but doing little to ensure its survival when its largest threat is about to show up.
The council might be power hungry and self-interested in their own way but at the very least they didn't choose to dominate the galaxy. They may have been in denial but the reapers is a pretty difficult thing to believe in. The structure of the council left many outsiders including the krogan the batarians and the volus as well as the terminus systems races like the quarians and the geth, many of which are important for the war effort. So if the galaxy was united before, perhaps not as an alliance but at least some involvement of those races (and not banning non-council races from building dreadnoughts etc also didn't help) then mobilisation would have been easier. For instance the Btarians get decimated instantly. But if they had played nice with the humans and the rest of the galaxy they might have had some help. If you look the asari and turians manage to hold out a lot longer.
Perhaps the council were bad but cerberus were a million times worse. And that's one of the interesting things about ME2. Do you condemn cerberus while working for them? Do you perhaps turn a blind eye to their more questionable tactics? Would, if the Illusive man offered, you work with him in ME3 rather than the council? (which could make for a very intersting variation).
Do you think that arming everyone would have really been a good idea at the time? In hindsight, maybe, but remember that these groups were perceived as a real threat while the reapers were a distant, potential threat. Only when the reapers had already attacked the batarians and earth did people take them seriously. Before then there would have been no unity. Urdnot Wreav was clearly building up to vengeance on the salarians and turians (and still is in ME3), the batarians clearly wanted to go another round with the human alliance. You give them weapons they won't wait for the reapers, they'll attack their own enemies and their rivals. And you think the terminus systems would take it lying down, council forces arming people by the truckload in their backyard? It'd instigate another war. Also I would be hesitant to rely on Prothean tech as the Reapers played on that very overreliance to make it easier for them to destroy us, and as I said even if you got the crucible blueprints the only group who would likely devote the time and resources to build it would be cerberus, which they would then use to dominate the galaxy. AI might work but given how easily Sovereign controlled the geth it is very vulnerable and also very unpredictable. Just cos the quarians started the genocide of the geth doesn't mean the geth are innocent of all the slaughter they've done, and just cos EDI is nice that doesn't mean that all AI won't be. Involving AI would just introduce another wild card to the mix.
But that's the struggle, I suppose. The Blue of trying to have an as intact-as-possible galaxy for as long as possible, and the Red of being willing to toss anyone else and even yourself into the war in order to eliminate the enemy. This cycle is supposed to have a form of perfect(ish) balance between the two, the right combination that is just enough to at least stop a cycle of trillions of years. Enough Chaos that it defeats the Reapers, enough Order to keep assets going long enough to have the Chaos win.
I mean, you make good points. Doing all that drastic stuff would have likely set so many fires that we would have lost many. I just think its also true that given the Reapers' plans and routine, we're set to lose billions of people anyway, whether it by Reaper action or our own (directly or indirectly), so we may as well screw the Reapers up to maximum effect. Instead, we are given the (subtle in ways) impression in ME3 that the Reapers always had a degree of confidence in themselves, even up to the very end. Even the final run has EDI commenting that Alliance forces shouldn't even be allowed to survive to that point. The ending itself gives off an air of manipulation, whether it be some indoctrination or something else.
So while I'm mostly good with the story we got (with some complaints) - I still like to think of the hypothetical of a cycle that does not give a damn at all, and will actively screw with anything of the Reapers' instead of playing into them. Research non-Mass Relay transportation tech. Move the Council elsewhere, even disband it and reform a whole other more military-style leadership for when the Reapers arrive. Push AI research to its furthest extents ASAP and actually unite with it against the Reapers. Its all super optimistic, but its a cool thought. :P
It's nice to believe that everyone in the galaxy could have played nice and banded together to prepare but that belief goes against everything that the series shows you about galactic politics. You'd burn down the house preparing for a hurricane.
They didn't need more wild cards, that's not what wins for the council. It's a combination of ships, troops on the ground, and a massive superweapon constructed with the efforts of several races. Researching non-mass effect tech could take forever, certainly probably more than the 3 years or so the trilogy takes place over.
The problem with burning down the galaxy to stop the reapers is that they don't come for the galaxy. They come for the lives. I remember some guy saying that they can't drop asteroids on them cos their destroying their own colonies, their own homes. And someone else talking about how the reapers have no supply lines, they turn the dead into their troops etc and how they are an unconventional enemy that nobody knows how to fight. The reapers do thrive on predictability, but their real strength is their technological advancement, the sheer power of their ships, and their unconventional tactics, especially harvesting.
Other than that the stuff you suggested basically is what happens, but only after the reapers hit earth.
We're actually told that the asari could be making their own mass relays by now if they bothered. But they don't.
Legion makes it clear that the Reapers know very well that if they guide organics down a specific tech line, that this is predictable and blinds organics to alternatives. People don't seek greater tech because they almost all, to some extent, take the Reapers' 'boons' for granted, when instead they could be doing much more different things with them. The system is managed in a way that few try to do anything different, and anyone who does, is incorporated into the Reapers' plans for the next cycle (collected knowledge of species).
We're shown what happens when some smaller factions have even 1s to 10s more years to prepare. Quantum entanglement becomes unlocked. AI becomes useful and outright counters Reaper tech. Mass Relay tech is much more understood (IFF signals). Reaper code is demystified. And this is only when Cerberus works for years and a united galaxy works for months.
Imagine that if the Council actually stuck to their word and worked for 2 years on this stuff? Even reverse engineering Thanx cannons in 'secret' (Salarian and Turian ships) played a role in destroying Reapers, and with even just a few more months of prep for every military ship, these cannons could have outright defeated larger parts of Reaper forces.
Bioware created a balance where some elements of the galaxy were ready to fight, just not enough to be victorious or more easily survive encounters. But in-universe, possibilities DID exist to have a galaxy that may not have been easily ready to totally and quickly defeat the Reapers, but at least take them on without requiring Shepard, the Crucible, etc. But that would have been a whole other story.
I don't think anything actually justifies the denialism of the Council species. It only explains it, gives it reason, but doesn't justify it. The Council could have done a lot, lot more, and some elements did in fact do some things (Salarians secretly, Quarians did believe Shepard and worked on anti-synthetic tech, Asari matriarchs believed in the Reapers more but didn't do anything about it).
We're told the Asari could make their own mass relays but we don't know to the extent that they understand the tech. The relays are like a web, I don't think you can just start putting them down wherever. And I'm sure it would be incredibly expensive. And it's still the same tech that the reapers have anyway, it would tke them all of 10 seconds to either infiltrate your relays r just smash em up anyway. And you can't just go researching all this stuff in secret, not least cos it's dangerous (indoctrination, you played leviathan?) but whaat do your neighbors do when they think you're building superweapons? They prepare for war. With you. Everyone making supernukes is not conducive to peace.
Yes, everyone could have dropped everything, all their current projects and goals, all the generations-long feuds which have been centuries in the making, all the mercs and governments and independent colonies could have joined together. But not only would that have been wildy unrealistic, it would have made for a far less interesting game.
VERY good point, but no, it isn't what I actually intend. I meant more just make a lot of AI and study how it works, but without restraints. It goes against all caution though and I know it'd never be done :). I just want moar CHAOS (even though personally I value Order more overall).
Very true.
I think trying to understand the relays that nearly caused your extinction is a smart thing to go. In fact, the ability somehow to shut out Reapers from using relays would be fantastic. Yes, they could destroy relays to make sure no one else can use it but the Reapers, but then they'd be super super super slowed down on the harvest.
Yeah, to its fullest extent, it just sounds logically stupid. But personally, I wish there was a little more of it. Three games of "No we can't do that, no we can't do that, no we only got to do a little of that but it was ineffective" lead to the writing of a Big Giant Weapon plot device, which while I have some personal interest in it and how it works to this day, I do think we may have gotten a better story if Shepard had at least somewhat more persuasive power to encourage more substantial action and preparations against the Reapers before they arrived.
Heck, there's a pet idea of mine that the trilogy is virtual (to the point of being a Reaper world of memory/dreams in ME3) and the 'real story' is in fact that people tried to get ready for the Reapers while the real Shepard was actually an indoctrinated tool. But that's crazy talk that I only have fun with :P.
I guess it is a little annoying the council just fob you off but then again, ME2 is all about the Terminus systems, the seedy underbelly of the galaxy. You are in non-council space. What the council says doesn't have too much meaning. And remember, for much of the galaxy the reapers haven't arrived, not yet. So for other races that is exactly what's happening. You just need the actual real presence of the reapers to give Shep weight in negotiations.
I think destroy is the 'right choice' because anything else is indoctrination - Perhaps the reapers knew they would one day be destroyed, and in the interest of self preservation they want you to choose synthesis or control.
Also I choose not to believe the crap the starchild says about synthetics and organics. I think he's telling you anything he can that will influence your decision. It would have been cool if he gave different reasons depending on your choices to show this.