Geth Self-Awareness?

[VolnuttHeroP64]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ92oR-_VI8
If the Quarians created the Geth, how come the Geth started becoming Self-Aware & don't you think Deactivating ALL of the Geth (including Legion) a tad Overdoing it? If they were Self-Aware, do you think they should have been released instead?

As Issac Asimov once stated:
"Any Machine with a mind advanced enough to grasp the concept of Freedom should have the right to have it."

[zyzz]

Jr786 Neil Watts/Eva Rosalene a écrit :

What the Quarians should have done was plan ahead of the curve and create new manual labor that wouldn't turn on them.

This is what they were trying to do. I don't think you understand how the geth work, or how difficult it is to make something that is (a) smart enough to perform any manual labor task you want, while also being (b) too dumb to actually think for themselves.

[VolnuttHeroP64]

zyzz a écrit :

Jr786 Neil Watts/Eva Rosalene a écrit :

What the Quarians should have done was plan ahead of the curve and create new manual labor that wouldn't turn on them.

This is what they were trying to do. I don't think you understand how the geth work, or how difficult it is to make something that is (a) smart enough to perform any manual labor task you want, while also being (b) too dumb to actually think for themselves.

Well in Small Soldiers, the Gorgonites and Commando Elite are Equipped with an X1000 Microprocessor Chip that makes them Self-Aware with different Programming.

Try to imangine Robotics in RL equipped with a Program that was ment for a Cruise Missile's Guidence System; Plugged into any system like a SmartDrive for Machines then it shows Self-Awareness becoming more advanced with Higher Learning more than any AI Programing. The Geth showing Self-Awareness is an example of them learning beyond the boundries of their Core Programing.

Issac Asimov did state something once about Machines that should have right to Self-Awareness & there's no right for them to not deny it. So Releasing the Geth should have been a better option than Terminating them for the Quarians, its something they should have done 300 years ago.

[zyzz]

Jr786 Neil Watts/Eva Rosalene a écrit :

zyzz a écrit :

This is what they were trying to do. I don't think you understand how the geth work, or how difficult it is to make something that is (a) smart enough to perform any manual labor task you want, while also being (b) too dumb to actually think for themselves.

Well in Small Soldiers, the Gorgonites and Commando Elite are Equipped with an X1000 Microprocessor Chip that makes them Self-Aware with different Programming.

Try to imangine Robotics in RL equipped with a Program that was ment for a Cruise Missile's Guidence System; Plugged into any system like a SmartDrive for Machines then it shows Self-Awareness becoming more advanced with Higher Learning more than any AI Programing. The Geth showing Self-Awareness is an example of them learning beyond the boundries of their Core Programing.

Based on some Googling, you are talking about... some crossover ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Look, you can't just toss in AI ideas from random fictional universes and expect it to mesh with either realism or the universe we're talking about. Plus most of what you're saying is complete nonsense! E.g. "Self-Awareness becoming more advanced with Higher Learning more than any AI Programing". If something is self-aware, it's already beyond any modern AI programming, by definition.

As for blahblah Geth self-awareness: yes, that's the entire point of their storyline!!! To dumb it down further for you: the quarians created very limited "intelligences" (geth) that had the potential to get smarter over time. This was useful for them because it allowed the geth to learn to do new useful things without any quarian having to intentionally program it in. The quarians made a mistake in this, and the geth got smarter than the quarians realized would be possible. This resulted in the quarians' downfall. This is explicitly stated in the game. :-/ If your point is to say that the quarians were foolish in their implementation of the geth: yes, everyone agrees. The in-game writers even agree.

[zyzz]

Jr786 Neil Watts/Eva Rosalene a écrit :

Issac Asimov did state something once about Machines that should have right to Self-Awareness & there's no right for them to not deny it. So Releasing the Geth should have been a better option than Terminating them for the Quarians, its something they should have done 300 years ago.

At this point I can only assume you have some kind of learning disability, because in no way is this a rebuttal to any of my posts. The quarians made a lot of mistakes in their relations with the geth. This is not something I dispute, or something I have ever disputed. You keep trying (ineptly) to tell me that geth have just as many rights as any organic, but if you were reading my posts you'd know you were preaching to the choir.

I think I am done replying to you. Either you're not reading my posts, or you don't have enough reading comprehension to understand them, and I don't really care which at this point. :/

[SwobyJ]

zyzz a écrit :

SwobyJ a écrit :

They are not absolutely.

We do not know if organic life has a creator with a specific purpose designed for it. Geth did have a creator and they designed specific purpose for it. The so called sapience is still clearly code, whereas in Mass Effect, there is still no full knowledge of organic genetics and its potential.

And I have to say I'm pro-Geth and playing a Devil's Advocate that I just think its meant to apply to Mass Effect.

Even if they are sapient, they're beings that have the power to wipe out all organics in the galaxy just as they wiped out approx 99% of Quarians, so don't be very surprised if the future Mass Effect canon describes some, at least, 'complications' regarding them. Clearly, in reality-so-far, existing as sapient does not necessarily guarantee survival. Because, well, life. In fact, for nearly wiping out the Quarians, its arguable that the correct response to that would be to give a response in kind, if pressed. Which Legion does, with his 'I must upload code now no matter what' intentions (= killing all the Quarians).

At the lowest level, geth work based on electrical impulses passed through circuits, and organics work based on electrical impulses passed through meat. Geth have, possibly, potential to wipe out all organics. Humans have, possibly, potential to wipe out all synthetics.

Knowing the facts that we know, it's pretty difficult to rationally argue that geth are ethically less valuable than any organic species. Sure, they're made of metal, but there's no logical reason that a meat-brain should be considered more valuable than a metal-brain, except that we have meat-brains and so are biased in favor of meat. :)

I don't think "being made for a purpose" comes into it at all. Lots of parents give birth hoping their children will be this or that, but over time it often turns out to be irrelevant. The wishes of a creator don't matter so much when the creation is sapient and can come to its own conclusions and make its own goals. The intentions of the quarians re: the creation of the geth only matters as far as the geth decide that it matters, much as the intentions of a parent re: its child only matters so far as the child decides.

Thing is, you're calling it a brain. Metal brains can just be machines. Lets replace Geth with Toasters and its effectively the same. Metal creations. They were not designed to even start to pretend to be alive. The Geth can decide whatever they like. As far as organics can consider it, its just an advanced runtime process. That's different from organics not understanding anything of any intent behind themselves. Electrical impulses mean nothing. Electrical impulses work with lightning. Lightning is not life. Organics are not circuitboards. And at least in the MEU, the organic brain has depths that are not even understood by the most advanced of synthetics, while organics can actually very well understand how synthetics work - they just underestimate the action potential of the synthetics' design.

Code is not the children of organics. Writing a code for a website, even if it somewhat mimicked human behavior is not creating a child. To organics, that utterly devalues the life and meaning of 'actual children'.

We don't know whether organics have the power to destroy all machine intelligences, especially by themselves without technology involved. We do have much more precident that synthetics can wipe out organics quickly - even ME3's harvest cycle was a huge anomaly and had signs of the Reapers pacing themselves out for their own purposes. This doesn't even count the likely other machines out there. For every powerful organic species, there's a machine capability that greatly surpasses them.

Its the Reapers that consider organics to be flesh machines. We see the results of their actions. They suck. Go organics.

If you consider the potential to create machine intelligences to automatically mean that it is bound to happen that organics will 'create life' from its material, then you should acknowledge the ability to 'kill' this life. As like an organic undergoing war with other organics, people acting in self-defense, and a state executing criminals or the dangerously insane that cannot be imprisoned, organics can decide to exercise their decided right to destroy synthetic entities. The Geth wiped out 99.9% of Quarians because they tried to shut down the Geth, better figure out how they worked, and then decide what to do one way or the other. The Quarians are going to return the favor, for the sake of their species, their home, their livelihoods, and their future. Then the Geth turned to the Reapers themselves in far quicker fashion than any organic species. What a glowing record of their existence.

/devilsadvocate



EDIT: Real talk though - when we for example figure out the 'genetic code' of human beings today, the data we have is still not all genetics. Its a recording of large facet of how our minds can comprehend how our genes exist. It isn't the full knowledge of genetics. Its the computer code that simulates elements of it. We don't know if we'll ever be able to create a program that accurately behaves as we define organic life, and anything supposedly 'beyond' that is not stuff we have to call life, but a useful too. We have plenty of machines today that can automate processes that are better and faster than how humans do it, but we don't call them fully conscious entities that decide to do these processes. They're robots. And robots that end up behaving and acting 'like' humans would arguably still be robots, no matter any propaganda otherwise.

**ME3 SPOILERS**

Similarly, any synthetic life really is arguably a simulacrum of organic life, but not the same thing, and not to be valued the same way. So when you pick a Reaper code upload to Geth and allow them to exterminate the Quarians for continuing aggression for the sake of taking one of the few planets that can facilitate their terrestrial existence, you're committing a huge betrayal of millions of organics, and its only given a pass because of the high use of Geth for a war effort against... other rampaging computers.

[zyzz]

SwobyJ a écrit :

Thing is, you're calling it a brain. Metal brains can just be machines. Lets replace Geth with Toasters and its effectively the same. Metal creations. They were not designed to even start to pretend to be alive. The Geth can decide whatever they like. As far as organics can consider it, its just an advanced runtime process. That's different from organics not understanding anything of any intent behind themselves. Electrical impulses mean nothing. Electrical impulses work with lightning. Lightning is not life. Organics are not circuitboards. And at least in the MEU, the organic brain has depths that are not even understood by the most advanced of synthetics, while organics can actually very well understand how synthetics work - they just underestimate the action potential of the synthetics' design. Code is not the children of organics. Writing a code for a website, even if it somewhat mimicked human behavior is not creating a child. To organics, that utterly devalues the life and meaning of 'actual children'.

This is circular logic. By definition, a synthetic mind works in metal and code. So sure, if you define sapience as being *organic* sapience, then no synthetics could be considered sapient. If you defined it that way, though, it would become a useless term when we're talking about the ethics of dealing with synthetic intelligences.

Beyond that, comparing geth to toasters and (modern-day) websites is just the association fallacy. The existence of non-sapient synthetics doesn't mean that no synthetics are sapient. That's like saying that because amoeba exist, humans aren't sapient. The code that the geth run on is nothing like a website at all. I've never seen anyone write a website that was capable of learning, thinking, making decisions, setting its own priorities, and modifying its own code to learn/think/make decisions/set priorities better in the future. Legion's behaviour is much closer to David Archer's than it is to, say, Avina. He can think more quickly and has problems understanding human emotions. That doesn't make him a toaster.

Given sophisticated enough technology, there's nothing stopping someone from creating a synthetic brain. There's nothing magic about meat. It follows the laws of physics and chemistry like everything else, and there are actually several AI groups making simple synthetic brains already. On top of that, there's no reason to believe that the way our brains work is special -- that humanoid intelligence is the only "legitimate" way to be intelligent.

As for the argument that geth could just be mimicking intelligence really well: how can you know that I'm not just mimicking intelligence? How do you know that other minds exist? What is the distinction between a perfect mimicry of intelligence and actual intelligence? If we don't understand how organic minds work, how can we claim that the way synthetic minds work is somehow lesser or "fake", without any evidence?

SwobyJ a écrit :

Its the Reapers that consider organics to be flesh machines. We see the results of their actions. They suck. Go organics.

This is the association fallacy again. You can acknowledge that synthetics and organics work similarly without believing that all organics should be melted down into goo.

SwobyJ a écrit :

If you consider the potential to create machine intelligences to automatically mean that it is bound to happen that organics will 'create life' from its material, then you should acknowledge the ability to 'kill' this life. As like an organic undergoing war with other organics, people acting in self-defense, and a state executing criminals or the dangerously insane that cannot be imprisoned, organics can decide to exercise their decided right to destroy synthetic entities. The Geth wiped out 99.9% of Quarians because they tried to shut down the Geth, better figure out how they worked, and then decide what to do one way or the other. The Quarians are going to return the favor, for the sake of their species, their home, their livelihoods, and their future. Then the Geth turned to the Reapers themselves in far quicker fashion than any organic species. What a glowing record of their existence.

There is a difference between killing criminals and intentionally deciding to wipe out an entire sapient race, which is genocide and a serious crime even when practiced during war. I would have no problem with a C-SEC officer taking out a geth platform if public safety required it. I didn't feel bad killing the heretic geth all through the series, either.

The geth intentionally allowed the quarians to escape. They *could have* chased down the quarian flotilla and wiped them out, but they chose not to pursue. (This is stated explicitly in-game.) They never any had intention of killing off the quarians; they were literally defending themselves. If the quarians had surrendered sooner, there would have been more quarians left alive.

As for the Reapers, the majority of the geth never fought with them, but remained behind the Perseus Veil until ME3. In ME2 they sent Legion as their ambassador -- it's his attitude towards organics that represents of the majority of the geth. Only the heretics fought for the Reapers, while the mainstream geth will fight to save the organics if you treat them right. This even though they have no dog in this fight and (from a selfish perspective) would actually be better off if the harvest was successful.

Besides that, if we killed off entire groups of people because they went to war over ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ideological reasons, there wouldn't be any Germans left. Or English, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Americans, or just about anyone. We'd be left with a couple isolated tribes in the far corners of the world that are too small to wage ideological wars.

SwobyJ a écrit :

**ME3 SPOILERS**
Similarly, any synthetic life really is arguably a simulacrum of organic life, but not the same thing, and not to be valued the same way.

Again, there's nothing to support this aside from a circular argument of "synthetic intelligence is not valuable therefore we shouldn't value synthetic intelligence". Why?

[SwobyJ]

I know I was making all of those argued fallacies.

"/devilsadvocate"

I agree with all you said. Or at least, I err on the side of believing it to be true. Even my 'real talk' part was stuff that I give a little more credence, not absolute belief.

Legion is one of my favorite characters. I did not enjoy his actions in ME3 but I went for Peace anyway.


EDIT: There's a couple disagreement that come to mind actually. I'm pretty sure that quickly killing 99% of Quarians was not an optimized solution, but instead a robotic one that at least almost justifies concerns about, well, Geth killing everyone.
Also, this included mass extermination of children. I don't think the Quarian children posed such a direct risk to Geth. I think the Geth didn't understand the basic empathy and only understood the foundations of paying tribute to creators, something possibly just hard-set into their software. Geth didn't need ideology to commit genocide. They just needed to exist and have any self-preservation protocol. With their level of relative technology, it justifies any act to them, in a much quicker fashion, and to a much further extent. Even the the actions of all previous wars didn't go that far. And of course the Reapers killed more than trillions and likely near-fully eclipsed the deaths any particular organic species did to all others.
The Geth shot down any ambassadors. Another example of their protocol getting in the way of more individual decision making consensus. They had to be isolated, thus shoot anyone down. It took a very unique situation, a breaking of their synthetic consensus, to even make Legion happen, and they were still set up to shoot down and kill anyone entering the Veil under diplomacy.
Legion's perspective is not the majority of Geth. Legion is a more isolated platform that got to learn Shepard's journey and be a Not!Fanboy!But!Basically!One of him. The rest of Geth don't give a damn and this is shown through the Geth VI alternative to legion. Legion had to get impressed by Shepard and be set up as more of an individual.

But still don't get me wrong. I'm very pro AI in Mass Effect and IRL, and I theoretically agree with such characters and their arcs like EDI. I just wanted to bring up what smaller bits that I don't feel entirely on board with. Legion himself would fully admit that the Mourning War/Geth rebellion was a huge mistake, including on the Geth's side, and that the Geth are not close enough to organic definition of life for interactions to be peaceful - though this could be a form of Reaper 'indoctrination' itself affecting his code haha. I appreciate the pro-Gethers that still think the Dyson Sphere and Geth Independence was more appropriate, and this includes the writer for ME2 (not ME3) Legion himself.

[zyzz]

A devi's advocate position doesn't require you to make bad arguments on purpose... that is just arguing in bad faith. It's possible to argue a stance you don't agree with and still make reasonable arguments.

I don't think we ever get enough detail on the war to know whether the geth could have stopped sooner than they did. We do know that many of the quarians who died in the war were actually killed by other quarians (lots of quarians didn't support killing peaceful geth units, and were killed for sheltering them). AFAIK there was never any mention of the geth specifically targeting children, so we don't really know how they died. The entirety of Rannoch would have been a war zone, and there are a lot of things to kill children in a war zone beyond being targeted by enemy combatants. Most people in war zones die of disease and starvation, not bullets and bombs.

[SwobyJ]

Devil's Advocate: "a person who advocates an opposing or unpopular cause for the sake of argument *or to expose it to a thorough examination*."

(Not Devil's Advocate) Geth do what they consider logical. Ensuring survival of children above the self-continuation of the continuously-networked-to-advance-intelligence-level is not what they consider logical. That's the downside of the consensus. They were not privy to a care about concepts like war crimes. They were ensuring the continuation of the Geth, and since Geth get to be more capable Geth the more Geth programs there are, protection of all Geth was of utmost priority until safety for all is ensured to the best of their analysis. This is also why they shoot down diplomatic ships. Because peace with such a large and complex galaxy isn't sure enough for them yet. And it took an unpredicted schizm to get them interested enough to send just a single independent (but still optionally networked) platform out of the Veil. Just one.

To them, letting any Quarians out that could continue the species was enough tribute to them. You can be 100% sure that there were devastating attacks on Quarian schools with a high death rate of children. Because while the war continues, even a Quarian child can shoot a gun to destroy a Geth platform or hub or whatever.

[DM]

Jr786 Neil Watts/Eva Rosalene a écrit :

protëin a écrit :

Creating a self-aware AI by accident is not the same thing like having a baby, a lot of things could go wrong, they were afraid of the consequences. I'm not saying I agree (or disagree) with their choice, but it's understandable IMO.

But since the Geth were Self-Aware, did they override and delete their directive against harming/opossing the Quarians that created them?

The Geth retaliated against the Quarians in order to survive, they didn't immediately go on the offensive.

Most Quarians wanted to destroy them, some wanted and tried to defend them.

[VolnuttHeroP64]

Foulplay a écrit :

Jr786 Neil Watts/Eva Rosalene a écrit :

But since the Geth were Self-Aware, did they override and delete their directive against harming/opossing the Quarians that created them?

The Geth retaliated against the Quarians in order to survive, they didn't immediately go on the offensive.

Most Quarians wanted to destroy them, some wanted and tried to defend them.

I can't blame the Geth for fighting for their survival, but as they say: "History is written by the Victors". But it would have been a better idea to release them instead of deactivating them since the Geth were now Self-Aware they should their free rights for Self-Determination let alone thw Quarians decision to shut them down seems harsh & what does that tell you?

[Gna]

zyzz a écrit :

At the lowest level, geth work based on electrical impulses passed through circuits, and organics work based on electrical impulses passed through meat. Geth have, possibly, potential to wipe out all organics. Humans have, possibly, potential to wipe out all synthetics.

Knowing the facts that we know, it's pretty difficult to rationally argue that geth are ethically less valuable than any organic species. Sure, they're made of metal, but there's no logical reason that a meat-brain should be considered more valuable than a metal-brain, except that we have meat-brains and so are biased in favor of meat. :)

I don't think "being made for a purpose" comes into it at all. Lots of parents give birth hoping their children will be this or that, but over time it often turns out to be irrelevant. The wishes of a creator don't matter so much when the creation is sapient and can come to its own conclusions and make its own goals. The intentions of the quarians re: the creation of the geth only matters as far as the geth decide that it matters, much as the intentions of a parent re: its child only matters so far as the child decides.

I wholeheartedly agree.

This whole genocide thing with the geth and the quarians really rubs me the wrong way. The circumstances are different but as a german I leanred guilt for WW2 at school for many years. Seeking to eradicate a people just because you don't understand them, or think you understand them and hence categorize them as lesser beings, doesn't sit right with me.

What's really tragic is that in the Quarian/Geth conflict it is all based in a big fat understanding. After everything the Geth still don't hate their creators, they just want to continue their existence and protect themselves. They are arguebly scared for their lifes. Their fear is probebly very different from ours in all kinds of way we can't quite comprehend, but the result is the same. They don't want to "die" they want their existence to continue. They want a future. They didn't go out and attack people, they never left the Perseus Veil after driving the Quarians off Rannoch. They didn't want any conflict.

The misconception that the Geth would eridicate organic life because they don't need it or as revenge for being used as 'slaves' seems logical at first, but it's just applying the values of an organic culture with a long history of awareness of themselves to a new born people only just discovering themselves. The Quarians reaction, while understandable, scares the hell out of me. Of course when it comes to billions of life and the future of their whole race they wouldn't want to take chances, but...

The Geth needed guidance. Seeing as how they never persued the Quarians, how they don't feel any hatred for them, still only want to protect themselves and only ally with the Reapers in ME3 after being attacked and in danger to be wiped out, it made pretty clear to me that they appreciate organic life to a point. They study it. To a point they are monitoring it to be on the safe side, know your enemy, but they are highly intelligent, and they need stimuolation. Of course they could compute pi until the end of time, but the irrational behaviors and different cultures of organic life seem to "interest" them. Take Legion. They seek understanding. Not at first, but following the traces of Shepard and learning about them Legion quickly developes an interest in Shepard as a person, Shepard seperate from humanity, alliance, and spectres. Shepard alone.

The Quarian/Geth conflict is so full of misunderstanding and the qish to continue their own existences. The Geth are he creation of the Quarians, yes. Are they alife? Not in the conventional way, but similar enpough. They are aware of themselves. They want to 'live'. I don't think anyone should have the right to take that away from anyone, as long as it doesn't threaten their own existence. Peaceful coexistance might not always be possible, but I believe it should always be the first choice.

Trying to take the Geths awareness away from them reminds me of Jeffrey Dahmer trying to create himself a sex-zombie by indroducing acid into certain parts of his victims brains. Make a living doll so to speak. It's sick. Just because we have the power, does that mean we have the right? Just because we understand ourselves, does that mean we can project that on everyone else? Just because we don't understand it, does that mean it doesn't exist, or is generally wrong?

As I said in the beginning that's probably my german guilt making itself known, but genocide just... Seeing yourself above something that you don't understand, and taking that as a reason to declare it dangerous and whipe it out. Every culture has the potential to be dangerous.
I mean if you take the Krogan Rebellion, it was wrong, but it was self defense. The Krogan would not have stopped on their own. That's their way. The Krogan were well known, their intentions, their culture, their appreciation for war and violence. I don't like it, but I understand it. But the Geth? They didn't even get the chance to explore this newfound "life" of theirs. Nobody confirmed anything and everyone just panicked like a bunch of chickens. If only... It's sad. So many missed chances to learn, to understand, to share and grow. I get it, the Quarians didn't want to take chances with all of Rannoch, in hindsight you're always smarter.

If only they'd have offered the geth guidance. If only they'd have taken the chance. If. If. If.

But yeah, this thread is super interesting, and to see so many different opinions on the subject is so awesome! People that agree with Xen, that the Geth always were and always will be tools, people that thinks artificial intelligence is dangerous, people that thinks AIs should have the same rights as organic life. All this great reasoning behind every opinion! Fascinating!

And the best of all is that we are all right and all wrong. This is Schroedinger's Cat. Until we open the box to check on it it's is both, dead and alife. Hehe.

[TFerretNXG]

if it was me, i'd carpetbomb the quarians for their total lack of compassion and total ignorance when it comes to the geth. if theyre so readily okay with destroying the geth just because they werent shackled AI like they wanted, then they should be readily okay with somebody destroying them (the quarians).

paying 100% close attention when you are in the geth consensus with legion is very important. you will hate the quarians by the end of that mission though. i really dislike the entire quarian race as a whole, and if it wasnt for tali and the war assets i would just let them all die out.

[SwobyJ]

They're destroying the Geth because the Geth killed over 99% of them and occupy their homeworld and transformed it and don't even try to contact anyone over it.

The Xens and the Korrises are both minorities. Most just want their damn home back.

The initial uprising was over deactivating the Geth upon discovery of the possibility of emerging consciousness (key words: possibility, emerging). There was no decision to actually destroy them all until the Geth struck and killed Quarians. Then it became a mess on all sides.

Stuff like "What has this unit done wrong?" are still VI sorts of statements. Inflection doesn't even indicate consciousness. We have voices right now that can simulate inflection.

Quarians fighting Quarians didn't start happening until Quarians started deactivating Geth and Geth started defending Geth from this. No destruction of Geth programs was happening at first. Geth interpreted deactivation as death, and any deactivation of any Geth programs (due to Consensus nature) as death of all Geth. Every Geth program that became removed, became viewed as an deadly offense towards all.

Geth asking "Does this unit have a soul?" are interpreted by the player. It can be a simple intelligent query that proves usefulness, or it can be an indication of independent intelligence, or it can be an indication of life. Keep in mind that plenty of people today do not believe in the soul, while many others do. The Geth question can be highly meaningful, or meaningless, but in any case, it overstepped the creator's boundaries and intent. Some people think creating is all the same thing. Other people think there's a difference between making a toaster and a child.

[BloodyMares]

son goku a écrit :

if it was me, i'd carpetbomb the quarians for their total lack of compassion and total ignorance when it comes to the geth. if theyre so readily okay with destroying the geth just because they werent shackled AI like they wanted, then they should be readily okay with somebody destroying them (the quarians).

paying 100% close attention when you are in the geth consensus with legion is very important. you will hate the quarians by the end of that mission though. i really dislike the entire quarian race as a whole, and if it wasnt for tali and the war assets i would just let them all die out.

Let's say, one day your fridge becomes sentient and decides to trap inside your child because of some bs reason. Would you break your fridge and save your child or would you let your child freeze because 'my fridge is sentient and my kid is stupid to get inside the fridge in the first place'? This is messed up.

I don't understand you folks who value robotic tools over living creatures. Robots aren't alive. They have their program. And this program can be multiplied and rewritten as many times as you want. And that's why erasing the program doesn't mean 'destroying' it. You can rewrite the same script from scratch but organic lives can't be restored or copied and that's why organic lives are valuable and synthetic functionality is not.