Weapons : automatic versus semi automatic gameplay ...

[lucg]

We have an ability to double the output damage while aiming with a scoped semi automatic.

Why they don't give us a similar ability with automatic while aiming iron sight or reflex sight ... ???

I think, it can be alot more fun to play automatic ... !

I mean, I have tested two Advanced Beowulf fully modded, semi and full auto in a borded spaceship.

For two tagets :

Semi = 2 to 4 shots

Auto = 40 to 60 shots

[momopovich]

I think the bonus while aiming with the scope applies to fully auto weapons as well

Fully auto weapons can get an insane dps, they just arent very ammo efficient but thats not a big issue even if you play with weighted ammo (mass is negligible unless you carry a bunch of unnecessary ammo types).

Fully auto benefit greatly from effects like lacerate, explosive, incendiary etc

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

The 11mm are really well balanced for this.

The problem is that the Beowulf exists. It's Semi-Auto configuration does enough damage and fires quickly enough that the full auto can't produce the same dps. Add an ultra common ammo type and it's just best in slot for the general purpose Assault Rifles.

[Mexicola9302]

It is complete nonsense that automatic weapons do less dmg, because it's the same caliber and bullet velocity, it doesn't make any sense. It's the same in the Fallout games. There should just be a toggle option for semi automatic/automatic and maybe burst fire and they should only keep the automatic recievers in the game, but give it the current semi auto dmg values. Everybody would be happy, ppl could shoot with it how they want and it does the same dmg per bullet. Problem solved for good. It's a single player game, so balance doesn't really matter.

[momopovich]

Originally posted by @%thesock10150alpha49:

It's Semi-Auto configuration does enough damage and fires quickly enough that the full auto can't produce the same dps.

They can with the damage on hit legendary effects

Most weapons are perfectly viable on the long run, sure some are power creeps but you can easily go for the best looking guns on animations

I didnt loot any decent semi auto for a while on my +75% run and found out a scoped fully auto incendiary tombstone was super fun and viable.

[momopovich]

Originally posted by Mexicola9302:

It's a single player game, so balance doesn't really matter.

Some level of balance affects the experience

If you don't like the default one, you can change it with mods or console.

[Skumboni]

If i had automatic on this gun, I would be stuck in a constant loading screen. It would be me loading that gun constantly.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3098290987

[Mexicola9302]

Originally posted by momopovich:

Originally posted by Mexicola9302:

It's a single player game, so balance doesn't really matter.

Some level of balance affects the experience

If you don't like the default one, you can change it with mods or console.

Things should make sense in the vanilla game, I haven't used any mods yet and don't plan to do so in the near future.

This automatic/semi-automatic dmg difference in BGS games is annoying me since years. That is one of the reasons it will never feel like a real shooter. It already does basic things completely wrong.

[Falaris]

There's a couple of 'game truths' that exist in games - not only BSG games.

FIrst, pistol damage vs rifle. Rifles are much bigger for a reason, and they should do vastly more damage than a pistol or revolver. Yet, often sidearms do more damage per shot than proper rifles. This is a pure application of 'Rule of Cool', with the assumption pistols are cool. Completely nonsensical, yet it's true in most non-simulator shooters.

Sniper rifle vs regular rifle - sniper rifles tend to do much more damage. Yet, same charge, barrel length, caliber - by any metric, the regular rifle should do the exact same damage; the difference should be the sniper rifle is accurate up to a greater range. Again, rule of cool applied because 'snipers are cool'.

The SA vs. FA difference is basically an extension of the (sniper) rifle thing. If you configure a rifle for sniping, it does more damage. They've just made the difference more explicit by letting you change a weapon's configuration.

It is nonsensical but it's an EXTREMELY common trope. I think this is one of those things that could be modded to be more realistic, but then again, if you did the only weapon anyone would use would be full auto rifles. Is that a good thing? Mnneyamaybe not?

[Doombringer]

With weapon that you can choose semi/auto/burst, auto is usually the worst choice.
AA-99 is fine full-auto due to stabilizing barrel & bad semi-auto damage mult.

AA-99 auto: 112 RoF x1 dmg; semi: 40 RoF x1.82 dmg
Beowulf semi: 50 RoF x1 dmg; burst: 120 RoF x0.4 dmg; auto: 150 RoF x0.33 dmg
Drumbeat auto: 160 RoF x1 dmg; burst: 100 RoF x1.625 dmg; semi: 60 RoF x2.375 dmg
Grendel auto: 170 RoF x1 dmg; burst: 200 RoF x1 dmg; semi: 60 RoF x3.67 dmg
Equinox semi: 50 RoF x1 dmg; auto: 180 RoF x0.24 dmg
Eon semi: 50 RoF x1 dmg; burst: 110 RoF x0.6 dmg; binary: 0.7x dmg +107.5% speed
Va'ruun Starshard semi: 11.5 RoF x1 dmg; burst: 30 RoF 0.5sec burst delay x0.811 dmg
Maelstrom auto: 75x2=150 RoF x1 dmg; semi: 30x2=60 RoF x2.67 dmg
Kodama auto: 170 RoF x1 dmg; burst: 120 RoF x1.364 dmg
Solstice semi: 25 RoF x1 dmg; auto: 40 RoF x0.3 dmg

Keep in mind you have to reload a much higher% of the time when using lower damage/shot options, so effective RoF doesn't actually go up much most of the time.

[lucg]

Yeah, it's why I have tested the full auto Advanced Beowulf, it was equiped with a double size magazine attribute ... .

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by momopovich:

They can with the damage on hit legendary effects

Most weapons are perfectly viable on the long run, sure some are power creeps but you can easily go for the best looking guns on animations

Viable? Sure. Play with what you like. The Tombstone is a guilty pleasure of mine. But the Beowulf Semi will out-perform them, especially on higher difficulties where enemy armor starts being an issue.

Legendary effects are very meh in this game because you have to send a lot of ammo downrange to get anything out of them. Handloading beats all of the DoTs for damage as well.

[jonnin]

Autos mostly burn up ammo in quantities that you can't replace. If not for that, I would probably enjoy some of them, but the high end ones fire like 300 rounds per second. Even if you had 10k rounds you can only shoot for 34 seconds. Firing it in bursts is of course the goal but now factor in: its so many shots you will overkill every target buy 1/2 a second or so, thats 150 rounds at a dead guy! Also, they recoil and you miss some shots, or the target starts moving, and you miss some shots. Target zigs off a direction and you try to track him, another 600 shots that didn't touch anything. If you only use them up close, the miss problems go away, but you still need something else to swap to for long range duels.

Or the semi auto, if you are decently skilled, 90 something percent of your shots land doing significantly more damage and there are almost zero overkill or other wasted ammo problems, and even better, if modded single shot on a full auto like the AA you have a lot of shots between reloads.

The only full autos I use regularly are the magshot pistol, which does over 350 damage per shot and holds 6 or 12 on an extended mag version, so the amount of wasted is very low and as I only use it at very close ranges, I don't miss with it as much as trying a long range fight with a mini-gun. And the other one is the breach shotgun, and its a special purpose weapon as well, medium range gun for that "your level +30" bosslet in a POI.

I would take a teal quality magshot with extra mag over most anything else in the game for killing wild animals and tougher opponents inside cramped buildings.

[Doombringer]

Handloading is an average of 1.0925x damage, it is not that good.

[Langkard]

I think my main complaint with full auto is not having a separate skill for it. Anyone who has ever fired a full auto gun will tell you that you learn to compensate for the recoil. That would then be reflected in a skill for full auto which lowers the recoil as you gain skill.

They way it is modeled in the game, we can't ever learn to compensate as well as one can in the real world. This ends up making full auto much less attractive as a choice of weapon in the game.

[momopovich]

Originally posted by jonnin:

Autos mostly burn up ammo in quantities that you can't replace. If not for that, I would probably enjoy some of them, but the high end ones fire like 300 rounds per second

I think you're exaggerating a bit. I had a ton of fun with my legendary explosive magstorm and never had to replace its ammo - I did stock up on them before getting the weapon, but still.