Selling Ship Parts THEN Ship Make More Money?

[Lord von Games]

One of the many irks in this game that grates on me is the lack of profitability of selling the coolest and most expensive things in the game... ships. It trashes the pirate career path (among many other factors) and breaks the immersion of any kind of reality... but enough about my many gripes on the inconsistencies of this game...

Has anyone tested it out and ran the numbers if selling ship parts THEN the ship make more money? Or has anyone else come up with another method? Perhaps a modded one?

[Maligner]

I agree with the sentiment but I'd also say that Bethesda games in general have terrible economies. This is nothing new. The way to make money the fastest, while actually playing and not doing something like sitting in an outpost and waiting 24 hours for materials to generate to sell, is simply picking up items and selling them. Works the same in almost all the games. The only other legitimate way has to do with outposts and that's setting up production chains. And without focusing by using wait command, if you just set up manufacturing chain and go play other aspects of the game, then come sell a load of manufactured goods, you can do alright.

In all cases, there's not that much to spend the credits on. So after a certain point, whether you make 2,000,000 credits stealing a ship or 200 credits, there's no real use for the credits anyway. Overall, the economy is bare-bones. Which seems to be something that is true of many RPG's overall. Go through the list of them. Things like Kingmaker, BG3, Deus Ex. Whatever game you can think of, there's a very limited economy. Usually money is a problem early. Later, it's pointless.

[HeyYou]

Yeah, NO beth game has anything even remotely resembling a 'live' economy. So, things get nerfed in the name of 'game balance'... Not that it matters. Money is EASY to come by.... and easy to accumulate more than you will ever be able to spend.

[alanc9]

What would a fix even look like. Do we really want a game where piracy is superior to all other activities? (I don't think the outpost XP and cash path is a bad thing; since it requires a big investment of materials and is boring AF, it should have a good payoff.)

[Lord von Games]

Piracy should have higher rewards, but higher penalties. How that figures out... up for debate, but the most reasonable way is to reduce registration cost, and increase resale value, not by a lot, but in general.

[RingLeader]

Nguyên văn bởi Lord von Games:

Piracy should have higher rewards, but higher penalties. How that figures out... up for debate, but the most reasonable way is to reduce registration cost, and increase resale value, not by a lot, but in general.

I agree. As it stands, it's very low rewards with very high penalties. I know Bethesda has always had pretty bad economies, but man, this is supposed to be a realistic futuristic space traveling anything you want kinda game. But the amount of restrictions in it says otherwise.

[alanc9]

And if piracy pays off, then bounty hunting will really pay off, since you get most of the upside and none of the downside.

[jonnin]

Nguyên văn bởi alanc9:

What would a fix even look like. Do we really want a game where piracy is superior to all other activities? (I don't think the outpost XP and cash path is a bad thing; since it requires a big investment of materials and is boring AF, it should have a good payoff.)

Hmm... fix?
for the outposts, they need to more than double the value of every item you can sell from ore all the way to products. IIRC to empty every vendor of money in NA one time, you need about a 50,000 KG or better cargo hold full. Even that may be on the low side: the crafting components you can make to sell are HEAVY but have a LOW VALUE which is GREAT if you want to buy them but not so good if you want to SELL them. At triple, buying them instead of making your own may start to become a valid choice (in favor of making them) which it currently isn't really (its a choice, but its not really valid when doing a cost-benefit analysis: most ppl gonna just buy enough to build what they need and skip all the nonsense).

for piracy, selling ships for big money ... no man's sky solved this by making you spend a great deal of materials to repair the ships, making big money AFTER spending a goodly amount of resources and effort, justifying the big payout. This is amazing creativity from devs to solve the problem... not saying its the best way here (why would a ship someone parked and left the keys in be trashed?) but its an example of creatively solving a similar problem. I think the registration is sort of creative as well, to give it credit, but it feels lamer because you WANT to be able to flip a profit on stolen ships but it can't be so easy to do it... its an issue as designed. My take on it at this point with MINIMAL SURGERY to fix it would to be to add or modfiy an underutilized skill (such as "negotiation") to decrease the registration costs considerably, upping the profits to allow ship stealing to be a profitable career opportunity later in the game.

[Wren]

I have no clue, pirating an enemy ship seems better than ship building and then selling the ship is easy cash.

[RingLeader]

I think it wouldn't be an issue at all if there was no registration fee. Or maybe like, 1-2000 credit fee. Registration costing over half of what the ship is worth is ridiculous. It wouldn't even be so bad if the ships value stayed at when you found it. Being worth 200,000 credits, and then owning it, and it dropping to 20,000, then registration hitting you at 9-10,000, leaving you with maybe 5-9,000 credits from selling the ship. That's bullsh*t. I'm having a pretty hard time getting credits honestly, missions pay ♥♥♥♥. Ships parts are stupid high. I had almost 200,000 credits last night, went into ship builder, sold my engines and bought the same amount in c class right, wouldn't think it would cost that much. I had 60,000 credits left afterwards, JUST upgrading engines. If a ships value (the most profitable way to make money) is going to be trash, then buying ship parts doesn't need to be so expensive. If I wanted to grind for days on end to build up one thing, I'd go play world of war craft. Piracy is supposed to have a high payout, because in the real world, crime really does pay, at a really high price. But not here it doesn't.

[Dan AC]

Nguyên văn bởi jonnin:

Nguyên văn bởi RingLeader:

I would absolutely do this but I'm on steam deck and have no clue what I'm doing with Linux still.

Until then you can adjust it via the console, just look at the ship's value and give yourself like 50% of that on top of the pittance sell price. But be aware that with the commerce perk, flipping stolen C class ships nets you 10K or more per so I am not sure any of that is necessary. And after you have one good ship, a home, and various early game odds&ends money is about useless other than just building extra ships for fun or having even more homes.

Nguyên văn bởi Lord von Games:

Anyway its MASSIVE immersion break to sell a pistol for more money than a top of the line ship!

While I agree with you in general, I used to own a couple of guns that are worth as much as a decent used vehicle. A competition 1911 or .22 (serious competition, that is) can run you 15k $US. Getting a bad design (moving barrel) to put every shot in the same hole with a light, touch-bang trigger is pricey (fixed barrel is so much cheaper and easier). The odds of looting such off some random thug in the starfield ghetto of ruined buildings etc should be nil, of course. Talking finding this : https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1019499409 on the guy taking your wallet down at the 7-11. [/quote]
you aren't wrong in that respect, but comparing a car to say even a helicopter is already a big jump, let alone a space-fairing ship. you can pick up a junker for for a few grand and sink another 6-7 to make it road worthy and looking not all too bad. there are also exotic cars that go for hundreds of thousands. we can't selectively compare random things just to make a point.

at the end of the day, i agree with the people that there is no point complaining about this game. either fix it via console, or find a mod if one is made.
they did the same nonsense in RDR2. you couldn't rob a train in the middle of nowhere because apparently, people back then had cell phones, or actually the law showed up that quick it was near telepathic.so robbing trains was impractical even though it would have been profitable.

[Lord von Games]

Again... people comparing the value of a gun to a car and saying it's the same thing as a gun to a STARSHIP!

Compare a gun to an aircraft carrier and then you're closer to a proper comparison... of idiocy.

Yes, this game desperately needs mods - and I have modded it, basically found a mod that strips the retarded license fee down to something reasonable while raising the value, now its immersive. Do I make money in a kind of broken way? Yes, but either way its broken, and I'll go with the more immersive way with starships selling for more than my knife...

[Dan AC]

Nguyên văn bởi Wanderer:

Stealing ships is way too easy. To reduce piracy the 'whole' universe agreed on a high registration fee and low selling price unless you are an authorised dealer. That was a great plan and made stealing ships not a profitable job and a little safer for travellers too.
Chop shops do not seem to be profitable either
The pirates know all that ... you new to the universe lol

It is a single player game so if you don't like it use a mod to reduce registration to almost nothing or just give yourself a lot of credits and save time. :)

That's a nice way to imagine the lore, but unrealistic. On earth, a single planet, we already see that any legislation usually creates push back and sometimes triggers a new black market. In a chunk of the galaxy across multiple systems, planets and moons, well what can i say, how is it even possible to enforce such an "agreement". it's a tad bit naive to think everyone would agree.

[HeyYou]

I use a mod that reduces registration costs, and increases what you can sell ships for. Still end up with maybe 20% of the value of the ship, but, it's better than vanilla.

You CAN mine asteroids. Shoot 'em till the blow up, and you get some minor resources.

[Cutlass Jack]

I'd be more bothered by the ship sale costs if it weren't for the fact ship repairs are almost free or via 'space magic' (aka ship parts) You have to look at the system as a whole not just one part of it.

They can't really get into realistic resale prices into ships without also putting in realistic cost, material & time to repair them. Then the whole thing would be properly balanced, but probably less fun for many. Not me. I'd probably enjoy it.

[Lord von Games]

The devs designers, got in way over their head, which, based on many interviews I've seen, the game dev went from a single-design-plan, to throw everyhing on the wall, and if Tod liked it, it stayed, if he didn't, it got dumped, and when he changed his mind... end result:

A LOT of individual systems breaking each other in a viscous cycle of game-mechanic or immersion breaking, so to fix this, instead of figuring out how to balance it, they just nerfed or eliminated tons of offending little bits, what you get is a puzzle with a lot of pieces that had so many other pieces eliminated that they just float, disconnected from the rest of the picture.

It is the sloppiest poorest AAA design I've seen in years, and something I never thought I'd see from Bethesda.