Why so much criticism of the Crimson Fleet questline?

[Pittsburgh Pirates Hat]

I mean seriously it's way better than sysdef. You get a reasonably decent crew member in Mathis, you get the Keelhauler which is one of the best unique pistols in the entire game, plus the Fleet's roster of characters is far more interesting than sysdef's. I get the argument that so many of them talk down to you but their personalities, motivations, backstories, etc and I honestly just had more fun doing it.

However, this questline is really like Imperials vs Stormcloaks from Skyrim just with the colors swapped brutal thugs lead by a very charismatic and slightly delusional man who is the only glue binding his faction together vs a corrupt but organized and uniform faction lead by a general who while kindly and competent largely cares more about following orders than the nuances of the situation he and his soldiers are in. Let's examine sysdef for a minute,

Sysdef is a corrupt and very flawed organization and most of the things that they accuse the Crimson fleet of being. Also they give you a quest that is pretty much Starfield's stones of barenziah quest having to go everywhere (including to locations you can't visit again after a quest mind you) to get evidence slates. However, you'll truly feel bad at the end for betraying the pirates. Also really only the commander, his female assistant, and the Armenian guy running the brig have any unique personality, backstory, or anything remotely interesting about them. The Crimson fleet has a much larger number of interesting NPCs with backstories.

What do you all think?

[pearsanity]

Meh, I made up my mind with the statement from Naeva Mora "Everyone is making more money than you on the same job" meanwhile everyone ain't don't ♥♥♥♥. I did attempt to stun but apparently my companion Andreja armed with a legendary exploding magshear disagreed. Lol.

[Goof]

the last mission was fun regardless of who you chose (if you unlocked the crimson missions the normal way) but overall the interactions with the pirates felt like i was in a pg-13 movie rather than a brutal pirate

[Fear2288]

I sided with SysDef.

It was fun locking up all the captains one by one and being like “HAHA foooooooooled youuuuuu”.

What I want to know though is whether or not you ever actually get a epilogue showdown with Naeva.

I think she gets away no matter what, but even hours after I completed the questline and all the way up to Unity I never came across her or got some kind of message from SysDef telling me they found her and I should go get her.

[Cutlass Jack]

My main disappointment with going SysDef is that Naeva Mora is still out there.
But I liked both routes overall.

[Djozar]

I don't think the criticism is with the quest itself as much as after the fact. You have Delgado talking about how when you get the Legacy, everyone will be unified out of some grand devotion to money. A pirate haven where there's work for all!

Except... that doesn't happen. You go to a mission computer and pick up a cheap bounty. Some unification effort. I'm sure Narmer is jealous!

Sysdef. Meh. They at least all pull together for an ovation at the end. Crimson Fleet just says "Wow... you're no longer 'Rook' to us!"

Sure, you get a companion out of CF, sme decent ship parts like scan jammers and such, but can pick those up other places, like The Red Mile on Porrima. Starseed quest gives me Amelia Earhart, who I'd much rather have for the historical context as well as the space conspiracy theory context than Mathis. Though Mathis is cool and all.

I never felt guilty for betraying pirates. That's sort of their whole M.O. Betrayal. They wouldn't feel guilty if they did it to me. Why should I? I've done both sides. Once even did both by getting booted by SysDef for just shooting a guy, not even killing them. I thought it was great either way you play it. Not some quickie quest that I complain is too short. A couple of times where I go "Not this one again!" and plenty where I'm like "Let's dance!!". Definitely not the quest quest of the lot!

[Djozar]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

I sided with SysDef.

It was fun locking up all the captains one by one and being like “HAHA foooooooooled youuuuuu”.

What I want to know though is whether or not you ever actually get a epilogue showdown with Naeva.

I think she gets away no matter what, but even hours after I completed the questline and all the way up to Unity I never came across her or got some kind of message from SysDef telling me they found her and I should go get her.

Hopefully she's in a DLC down the line where she rallies members of the fleet against you and your crew.

[Azunai]

I was looking forward to killing the stupid smug girlboss pirate. Too bad the writers let her get away. Other than that, no regrets siding with sysdef.

[Action Man]

I have yet to feel bad about betraying the pirates. They haven't really given me any reason to feel sympathetic towards them. Some of them are fine enough, but I never get much chance to feel like part of the group. I'm the errand boy.

So far, I've only gotten into this questline by either being sent to SysDef by Tuala, or being recruited in jail. Is there a way to just be part of the Fleet without that? Maybe that would change my view on it.

[Cutlass Jack]

Originally posted by Djozar:

Hopefully she's in a DLC down the line where she rallies members of the fleet against you and your crew.

My main (RP) worry with Naeva being loose is that she'll obviously want revenge and I don't want a loose end coming after my parents. My character purposely downplayed their role in the news for that reason, but Naeva is the one person who knows who I am and was responsible for bringing me in to begin with.

I also purposely did not kill Jazz to give her even more reason for revenge. No that I think the game tracked that at all. I have to keep zapping her unconscious with EM every time I enter the station.

[Action Man]

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

I also purposely did not kill Jazz to give her even more reason for revenge. No that I think the game tracked that at all. I have to keep zapping her unconscious with EM every time I enter the station. :VBCOOL:

That was annoying for me too. The first time I tried to EM the named people so they could be arrested. But it just doesn't matter. I do wish there was more consideration for non-lethal solutions

[Low Standards]

Why do you think people hate the Crimson missions?

[Cutlass Jack]

Originally posted by Action Man:

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

I also purposely did not kill Jazz to give her even more reason for revenge. No that I think the game tracked that at all. I have to keep zapping her unconscious with EM every time I enter the station.

That was annoying for me too. The first time I tried to EM the named people so they could be arrested. But it just doesn't matter. I do wish there was more consideration for non-lethal solutions

I tried to keep just a few alive. Mainly Jazz, the doctor, and Huan Daiyu. I especially liked Huan and couldn't figure out why she fully joined the pirates at the endpoint. At least Rokov, who I also liked got to live (since he was imprisoned)

I wish I had the option to let Huan smuggle her way out of there. But yeah I agree they did such a poor job with non-lethal they shouldn't have even bothered.

[Mommy💋LipStick]

True, why do you critisize the crimson flock...
realy, once you learn to know them tbey realy nice folk... °_°

[Ellorien]

Originally posted by Azunai:

I was looking forward to killing the stupid smug girlboss pirate. Too bad the writers let her get away. Other than that, no regrets siding with sysdef.

Same here. I made my choice to destroy Crimson Fleet the moment Naeva opened her big ugly mouth.

[Prowl]

I've only gone as far as finishing the breaking the bank quest but that left such a bad taste in my mouth I dread to think where it goes next. The characters you interact with are so unlikable. They all talk down to you, expect you to do the leg work. When you do complete the legwork in the most satisfactory way possible they talk down to you like you're an idiot.

They threaten you like you're incapable of holding your ground or fighting back and your only recourse is to say "yes sir, can I have another spoon full of s*** sir".
Now don't get me wrong, if it fits the narrative I don't mind being treated as a rookie when it is appropriate, but it is the default stance of all the npcs.

I just did the siren of the stars mission today and the writing of that entire quest was worse than fan fiction. There was no alternate way to finish any of it, and to get the optional award I had to ask the npc who was safe guarding the award to hand over her key card so I could walk in and rob the safe.

To sabotage the life support systems I just bribed the chief engineer to walk away by having his gambling debt cleared. He just walks away and I pass him in the corridor as the alarm is going mad and he doesn't bat an eye lid.

Why is there no option to sneak these objectives, or create some other kind of distraction other than walking up plain as day and practically announcing I'm the one responsible for what is about to happen.

Skyrim's Thieves guild was the lowest point for me when it comes to bad writing of a faction quest line but the Crimson fleet looks like it wants to compete.