Enemies AI is really bad

[Woldren]

I can't enjoy the firefights, I am sorry. I am really trying... but it seems like I am shooting at robots of our time, instead of human raiders. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2cukB4_hDCI (by the way, this video is obviusly fake, look at that zoom)
I have never had this feeling playing cheaper games like "the outer worlds".
I don't understand how people can be happy with this kind of gameplay.

[xybolt]

The AI in these Creation Engine based games aren't really "expansive" in contrary to some shooter games. It is a game catered to a large audience, including kids and elder people. People are playing the game for fun, a small challenge is acceptable. It is not meant to have it "tough" (playing with the difficulty level is artificial as it only influences the DMG and HP) and challenging like those souls games.

The main purpose of this game is exploration. Gunplay is an addition to that, to spice up the game a bit.

If you want to play a shooter game with challenge (more combative AI), then this game is not for you. You have to look for games like FEAR or Tarkov or Crysis or Metal Gear series. Or other games in that alley.

[Woldren]

it probably isn't really for me then, even if I played The Outer Worlds, fallout 4, fallout 3, new vegas and all the other bethesda games. At 31 years old I just need a minimum glimpse of intelligence from the enemy I am facing, but if that's asking too much, I wonder why they gave us firearms. I really tried with all my heart to like this game, but I lost the fight.

[ebolaconundrum]

Originally posted by Woldren:

I can't enjoy the firefights, I am sorry. I am really trying... but it seems like I am shooting at robots of our time, instead of human raiders. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2cukB4_hDCI (by the way, this video is obviusly fake, look at that zoom)
I have never had this feeling playing cheaper games like "the outer worlds".
I don't understand how people can be happy with this kind of gameplay.

It's just a very basic sort of state machine they've used.

[Neo]

The gunplay is pretty darn good in SF. Not sure what you're on about.

[White Rabbit Alice]

Thats a feature of Bethseda OW Games.

Bad AI, That is.

[Winged Archon]

Originally posted by Woldren:

I can't enjoy the firefights, I am sorry. I am really trying... but it seems like I am shooting at robots of our time, instead of human raiders. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2cukB4_hDCI (by the way, this video is obviusly fake, look at that zoom)
I have never had this feeling playing cheaper games like "the outer worlds".
I don't understand how people can be happy with this kind of gameplay.

What are you expecting the AI to do then?
They search out cover.
they try to close the distance.
they sometime jumpjet you.
they toss grenades
The weapons they carry determine their "proficiency" to nail you.
Pretty much what enemies in basically every Bethesda game did to a greater or lesser extend. I'm not sure if you expected something revolutionary versus what is the known recipe...

[Varanus]

Originally posted by Winged Archon:

Originally posted by Woldren:

I can't enjoy the firefights, I am sorry. I am really trying... but it seems like I am shooting at robots of our time, instead of human raiders. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2cukB4_hDCI (by the way, this video is obviusly fake, look at that zoom)
I have never had this feeling playing cheaper games like "the outer worlds".
I don't understand how people can be happy with this kind of gameplay.

What are you expecting the AI to do then?
They search out cover.
they try to close the distance.
they sometime jumpjet you.
they toss grenades
The weapons they carry determine their "proficiency" to nail you.
Pretty much what enemies in basically every Bethesda game did to a greater or lesser extend. I'm not sure if you expected something revolutionary versus what is the known recipe...

This. Not sure what else you want or expect them to do.

[Cephei]

Originally posted by Neo:

The gunplay is pretty darn good in SF. Not sure what you're on about.

The AI in SF doesn’t react, adapt, or even pretend to care, there’s no tension, no challenge. If this is your standard for good gunplay I can see why you’re impressed, but let’s not confuse poorly disguised mediocrity with actual quality mechanics.

[HeyYou]

Originally posted by Cephei:

Originally posted by Neo:

The gunplay is pretty darn good in SF. Not sure what you're on about.

The AI in SF doesn’t react, adapt, or even pretend to care, there’s no tension, no challenge. If this is your standard for good gunplay I can see why you’re impressed, but let’s not confuse poorly disguised mediocrity with actual quality mechanics.

But they DO react.... Fire a round near an enemy, and he will start looking for where it came from.

[Woldren]

Originally posted by Cephei:

Originally posted by Neo:

The gunplay is pretty darn good in SF. Not sure what you're on about.

The AI in SF doesn’t react, adapt, or even pretend to care, there’s no tension, no challenge. If this is your standard for good gunplay I can see why you’re impressed, but let’s not confuse poorly disguised mediocrity with actual quality mechanics.

Exactly what I was trying to say! There is no tension, no challenge!
It's just super boring, you kill them because you have to, not because you want to have fun. And after they are dead, you didn't even enjoyed the gameplay. It's boring, boring, boring, super ultra boring.

Did they even tried to play a firefight before releasing the game? How is it possible that no one every said: is this the best we can do? Guys, this fights are boring as f***, we need to do something about it! It's horrible! Maybe.. let's fire the guy who is responsible for this and hire someone who can actually do the job.
None of them ever said it? How is it possible?

[Woldren]

Originally posted by HeyYou:

Originally posted by Cephei:

The AI in SF doesn’t react, adapt, or even pretend to care, there’s no tension, no challenge. If this is your standard for good gunplay I can see why you’re impressed, but let’s not confuse poorly disguised mediocrity with actual quality mechanics.

But they DO react.... Fire a round near an enemy, and he will start looking for where it came from.

it's like fighting with those little sardines in spongebob
Soldiers in Metal gear solid 1 were more reactive, and that game was released in 1998

[Varanus]

Originally posted by HeyYou:

Originally posted by Cephei:

The AI in SF doesn’t react, adapt, or even pretend to care, there’s no tension, no challenge. If this is your standard for good gunplay I can see why you’re impressed, but let’s not confuse poorly disguised mediocrity with actual quality mechanics.

But they DO react.... Fire a round near an enemy, and he will start looking for where it came from.

They seem to be really good at tracking trajectory. Even from complete stealth, they seem to be able to tell, within a 30% cone, where they should be looking.

[HeyYou]

Originally posted by Varanus:

Originally posted by HeyYou:

But they DO react.... Fire a round near an enemy, and he will start looking for where it came from.

They seem to be really good at tracking trajectory. Even from complete stealth, they seem to be able to tell, within a 30% cone, where they should be looking.

They are big believers in the 'spray and pray' school of combat as well...... If they can't *see* you, they just blanket the area with fire..... :)

[Varanus]

Originally posted by HeyYou:

Originally posted by Varanus:

They seem to be really good at tracking trajectory. Even from complete stealth, they seem to be able to tell, within a 30% cone, where they should be looking.

They are big believers in the 'spray and pray' school of combat as well...... If they can't *see* you, they just blanket the area with fire..... :)

Thats what they did in the first Predator movie. They even hit him once!

[Mooman]

Theory: it's all because of FO76.

If you look through the credits and ToS for Starfield you'll find many references to multiplayer gaming, yet SF has none...

Going back to FO76 and the design theory that there were no NPCs and other players were the most dangerous thing, means that complex NPC A.I. wasn't needed.

FO76 and SF were developed in parallel with each other with many of the same devs involved. FO76 was/is in many ways a test bed for SF.

But FO76 'failed' and players hated the no NPC approach meaning SF had to change or suffer the same fate. Rudimentary A.I. was all that could be fallen back on and 'difficulty' in the form of bullet sponges.

You can see this multiplayer design in many aspects of the game from 24/7 shop vendors to the expansive universe with lots of room for outposts to the limited credits at vendors.

If humans provided 'A.I.' as the main threat then the stupid A.I. of the NPCs isn't an issue as they are meant to be fodder instead of bullet sponges.