Ok, screw this game

[Etteragic]

Its boring and undeniably woke. What old fashion bethseda/bethesda-like fallout game is the best to replay instead? New Vegas, Fallout 3 or fallout 4? Which one have the most player choices, replayability and the best gameplay, compared to this one? Fallout 4 is the most modern, but have a bad writing, still better then starfield in terms of the roleplay. The other ones are kind of old, and lack on some life quality features, but got what it take in terms of the narrative and choices variability. So what do you think? Maybe its the better option to tune up the old isometric ones even? Or some of the elder scrolls perhaps?

[Lankester Merrin]

man i love morrowind

[Redmacinton]

i do agree the game is boring, perhaps i should play new vegas with mods.

[Wade]

Play Fallout New Vegas. Hell, even 25 years old Fallout 2 with pixel graphics is way much better then this generic woke hogwash.

[Alligator]

Etteragic, play New Vegas, just what the Doc ordered, most effective cure for current "Bethesda experience".
My case is untreatable, so I just switched to agonizing pain of playing Escape from Tarkov.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Starfield really isn't woke; if anything my issue with it is that it is way too classically neoliberal (not the same as liberal, neoliberal refers to the societal structure present in the US and most of Europe, that which is currently the predominant economic and social system on a global scale; it's a term related more to international relations and the predominant social zeitgeist on a global scale and not to local political details)

Pretty much, the default assumption in Starfield is that the military and police are good, that the system works, and that most things (exploration, healthcare, travel, science) are handled primarily through free market capitalism where the government only really intervenes to provide for those it deems ideal citizens (specifically military.)

Because of this, your companions will espouse the notion that even though there are many corrupt individuals the system as a whole is good and works. The plots presented are counter revolutionary in nature and push quite hard to defuse the notion that the dissolution of any societal structure is necessary.

Constellation for example is a privatized group of explorers funded by a billionaire and they claim sole possession of important scientific materials and cultural artifacts. The ethics of their doing so is never questioned, even when a third party arrives making a claim of ownership to said stolen artifacts, the idea is dismissed entirely.

The UC military is harboring war criminals and the government is unrepentant, yet you are encouraged to trust the system to right itself, resulting in a very anticlimactic end to their questline.

If you join the strikers in Neon, they will become cops, there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise despite the blatant corruption of Neon's security.

Beyond this the society presented in Starfield is pretty much just a space version of the modern world. It's a corporate capitalist society in which the government, military, and corporations are viewed uncritically and any action opposing them is considered to be pretty objectively wrong in the context of the story. This society uses high barriers to citizenship and hefty prison sentences, militarized police forces, and the rampant commodification of basic rights and it is unchecked in doing so, leaving the player no real agency to respond as you are really forced to take the moderate stance rather than the revolutionary one.

Mind you, this is common in games; we live in a neoliberal society so a corporation is going to present a neoliberal view. My issue is that the presentation of this neoliberal view is very anticlimactic. When the UC military questline ends it would be a perfect jumping off point for a plot about government corruption and a dystopian abuse of civilians for the sake of government power and corporate greed... but instead the plot just ends feeling like it dropped the third act.

Overall, I'd call Starfield the opposite of woke; sure it's willing to dangle minorities in front of the camera, but any radical change or opposition to the horrors of the system presented is off the table. Queer people are present as a commodity, not as individuals with agency, and there is no element of resistance or liberation to be found. To be "woke" is predicated on revolution, radical change, and Starfield portrays a society that hasn't meaningfully changed in half a millenia.

[Etteragic]

Originally posted by Alligator:

Etteragic, play New Vegas, just what the Doc ordered, most effective cure for current "Bethesda experience".
My case is untreatable, so I just switched to agonizing pain of playing Escape from Tarkov.

Yea, that's kind of what I feel like too. Going to side with the legion, dig up some graves and try out that supernatural perk. Jeez, the games were actually fun at some point?

[Trip]

New Vegas.

I'm gonna finish a Caesars Legions playthrough one of these days. I keep trying but I just end up killing em eventually cuz I just hate them soooo much.

Does that make me a bad person?

[NaRf]

Originally posted by Geeks On Hugs:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035626499

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035626894

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035627133

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035218392

What is your overall point in regards to these screenshots? I have seen you post afew times and I'm still baffled.

[Redmacinton]

Originally posted by NaRf:

Originally posted by Geeks On Hugs:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035626499

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035626894

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035627133

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3035218392

What is your overall point in regards to these screenshots? I have seen you post few times and I'm still baffled.

you've been spamming these for awhile now, there is nothing special about them. hell even i can make a proper screenshot.

[katzenkrimis]

Originally posted by Etteragic:

But have a bad writing.

You won't find great writing in the video game industry because developers don't spend large chunks of their budget on hiring great writers, like the film and television industry does.

Someday, they will, but that day is still a long way off.

The video game industry is young, at just over fifty years old.

I remember when the Broken Sword games were considered to have 'great writing'. Winning awards. If I watch them today they are nothing special. Some of the dialogue was written well, but overall, there's nothing great about it.

[Ernasty]

Originally posted by Trip:

New Vegas.

I'm gonna finish a Caesars Legions playthrough one of these days. I keep trying but I just end up killing em eventually cuz I just hate them soooo much.

Does that make me a bad person?

hahaha, New Vegas is one of my favorite games - i'm in the same boat as you...i've tried an "evil" playthrough where i side with the legion but i always end up killing them cause they are such huge a-holes

[Etteragic]

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

Starfield really isn't woke; if anything my issue with it is that it is way too classically neoliberal (not the same as liberal, neoliberal refers to the societal structure present in the US and most of Europe, that which is currently the predominant economic and social system on a global scale; it's a term related more to international relations and the predominant social zeitgeist on a global scale and not to local political details)

Pretty much, the default assumption in Starfield is that the military and police are good, that the system works, and that most things (exploration, healthcare, travel, science) are handled primarily through free market capitalism where the government only really intervenes to provide for those it deems ideal citizens (specifically military.)

Because of this, your companions will espouse the notion that even though there are many corrupt individuals the system as a whole is good and works. The plots presented are counter revolutionary in nature and push quite hard to defuse the notion that the dissolution of any societal structure is necessary.

Constellation for example is a privatized group of explorers funded by a billionaire and they claim sole possession of important scientific materials and cultural artifacts. The ethics of their doing so is never questioned, even when a third party arrives making a claim of ownership to said stolen artifacts, the idea is dismissed entirely.

The UC military is harboring war criminals and the government is unrepentant, yet you are encouraged to trust the system to right itself, resulting in a very anticlimactic end to their questline.

If you join the strikers in Neon, they will become cops, there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise despite the blatant corruption of Neon's security.

Beyond this the society presented in Starfield is pretty much just a space version of the modern world. It's a corporate capitalist society in which the government, military, and corporations are viewed uncritically and any action opposing them is considered to be pretty objectively wrong in the context of the story. This society uses high barriers to citizenship and hefty prison sentences, militarized police forces, and the rampant commodification of basic rights and it is unchecked in doing so, leaving the player no real agency to respond as you are really forced to take the moderate stance rather than the revolutionary one.

Mind you, this is common in games; we live in a neoliberal society so a corporation is going to present a neoliberal view. My issue is that the presentation of this neoliberal view is very anticlimactic. When the UC military questline ends it would be a perfect jumping off point for a plot about government corruption and a dystopian abuse of civilians for the sake of government power and corporate greed... but instead the plot just ends feeling like it dropped the third act.

Overall, I'd call Starfield the opposite of woke; sure it's willing to dangle minorities in front of the camera, but any radical change or opposition to the horrors of the system presented is off the table. Queer people are present as a commodity, not as individuals with agency, and there is no element of resistance or liberation to be found. To be "woke" is predicated on revolution, radical change, and Starfield portrays a society that hasn't meaningfully changed in half a millenia.

What you describe is generally considers "woke", not only the minority part, and that what people are talking about, it all have the same origin. Neoliberal agenda is one of the biggest issues in this game, and I could agree that its the most significant part of the narrative disappointment, since all of the stories in the game are focused on providing the politically correct epilogue, rather then the philosophical or entertaining

[Etteragic]

Originally posted by katzenkrimis:

Originally posted by Etteragic:

But have a bad writing.

You won't find great writing in the video game industry because developers don't spend large chunks of their budget on hiring great writers, like the film and television industry does.

Someday, they will, but that day is still a long way off.

The video game industry is young, at just over fifty years old.

I remember when the Broken Sword games were considered to have 'great writing'. Winning awards. If I watch them today they are nothing special. Some of the dialogue was written well, but overall, there's nothing great about it.

I like the from software writing, if we talking about the whole industry. Its deep, complex and often metaphysical, if you pay attention. They have a unique and interactive way of the narration also, which is a big plus. No comparisons with the bethesda games, but they at least have some moral roleplay variability in their previous games, and many-sided in-game lore, that was interesting to explore, which is why people play in their games in the first place

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by Etteragic:

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

Starfield really isn't woke; if anything my issue with it is that it is way too classically neoliberal (not the same as liberal, neoliberal refers to the societal structure present in the US and most of Europe, that which is currently the predominant economic and social system on a global scale; it's a term related more to international relations and the predominant social zeitgeist on a global scale and not to local political details)

Pretty much, the default assumption in Starfield is that the military and police are good, that the system works, and that most things (exploration, healthcare, travel, science) are handled primarily through free market capitalism where the government only really intervenes to provide for those it deems ideal citizens (specifically military.)

Because of this, your companions will espouse the notion that even though there are many corrupt individuals the system as a whole is good and works. The plots presented are counter revolutionary in nature and push quite hard to defuse the notion that the dissolution of any societal structure is necessary.

Constellation for example is a privatized group of explorers funded by a billionaire and they claim sole possession of important scientific materials and cultural artifacts. The ethics of their doing so is never questioned, even when a third party arrives making a claim of ownership to said stolen artifacts, the idea is dismissed entirely.

The UC military is harboring war criminals and the government is unrepentant, yet you are encouraged to trust the system to right itself, resulting in a very anticlimactic end to their questline.

If you join the strikers in Neon, they will become cops, there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise despite the blatant corruption of Neon's security.

Beyond this the society presented in Starfield is pretty much just a space version of the modern world. It's a corporate capitalist society in which the government, military, and corporations are viewed uncritically and any action opposing them is considered to be pretty objectively wrong in the context of the story. This society uses high barriers to citizenship and hefty prison sentences, militarized police forces, and the rampant commodification of basic rights and it is unchecked in doing so, leaving the player no real agency to respond as you are really forced to take the moderate stance rather than the revolutionary one.

Mind you, this is common in games; we live in a neoliberal society so a corporation is going to present a neoliberal view. My issue is that the presentation of this neoliberal view is very anticlimactic. When the UC military questline ends it would be a perfect jumping off point for a plot about government corruption and a dystopian abuse of civilians for the sake of government power and corporate greed... but instead the plot just ends feeling like it dropped the third act.

Overall, I'd call Starfield the opposite of woke; sure it's willing to dangle minorities in front of the camera, but any radical change or opposition to the horrors of the system presented is off the table. Queer people are present as a commodity, not as individuals with agency, and there is no element of resistance or liberation to be found. To be "woke" is predicated on revolution, radical change, and Starfield portrays a society that hasn't meaningfully changed in half a millenia.

What you describe is generally considers "woke", not only the minority part, and that what people are talking about, it all have the same origin. Neoliberal agenda is one of the biggest issues in this game, and I could agree that its the most significant part of the narrative disappointment, since all of the stories in the game are focused on providing the politically correct epilogue, rather then the philosophical or entertaining

Neoliberalism doesn't care about minorities, they care about profit.

Nobody is complaining about the inclusion of minorities as a dehumanized commodity in a corporate machine; they're complaining cause they hate minorities. There's a huge difference.

[Badass Trans Knight]

Originally posted by Etteragic:

Originally posted by Badass Trans Knight:

Starfield really isn't woke; if anything my issue with it is that it is way too classically neoliberal (not the same as liberal, neoliberal refers to the societal structure present in the US and most of Europe, that which is currently the predominant economic and social system on a global scale; it's a term related more to international relations and the predominant social zeitgeist on a global scale and not to local political details)

Pretty much, the default assumption in Starfield is that the military and police are good, that the system works, and that most things (exploration, healthcare, travel, science) are handled primarily through free market capitalism where the government only really intervenes to provide for those it deems ideal citizens (specifically military.)

Because of this, your companions will espouse the notion that even though there are many corrupt individuals the system as a whole is good and works. The plots presented are counter revolutionary in nature and push quite hard to defuse the notion that the dissolution of any societal structure is necessary.

Constellation for example is a privatized group of explorers funded by a billionaire and they claim sole possession of important scientific materials and cultural artifacts. The ethics of their doing so is never questioned, even when a third party arrives making a claim of ownership to said stolen artifacts, the idea is dismissed entirely.

The UC military is harboring war criminals and the government is unrepentant, yet you are encouraged to trust the system to right itself, resulting in a very anticlimactic end to their questline.

If you join the strikers in Neon, they will become cops, there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise despite the blatant corruption of Neon's security.

Beyond this the society presented in Starfield is pretty much just a space version of the modern world. It's a corporate capitalist society in which the government, military, and corporations are viewed uncritically and any action opposing them is considered to be pretty objectively wrong in the context of the story. This society uses high barriers to citizenship and hefty prison sentences, militarized police forces, and the rampant commodification of basic rights and it is unchecked in doing so, leaving the player no real agency to respond as you are really forced to take the moderate stance rather than the revolutionary one.

Mind you, this is common in games; we live in a neoliberal society so a corporation is going to present a neoliberal view. My issue is that the presentation of this neoliberal view is very anticlimactic. When the UC military questline ends it would be a perfect jumping off point for a plot about government corruption and a dystopian abuse of civilians for the sake of government power and corporate greed... but instead the plot just ends feeling like it dropped the third act.

Overall, I'd call Starfield the opposite of woke; sure it's willing to dangle minorities in front of the camera, but any radical change or opposition to the horrors of the system presented is off the table. Queer people are present as a commodity, not as individuals with agency, and there is no element of resistance or liberation to be found. To be "woke" is predicated on revolution, radical change, and Starfield portrays a society that hasn't meaningfully changed in half a millenia.

What you describe is generally considers "woke", not only the minority part, and that what people are talking about, it all have the same origin. Neoliberal agenda is one of the biggest issues in this game, and I could agree that its the most significant part of the narrative disappointment, since all of the stories in the game are focused on providing the politically correct epilogue, rather then the philosophical or entertaining

I can prove it's because they hate minorities too.

Consider this, how would removing said minorities fix the problem? It really wouldn't, the plot would be the exact same.

Now keep the minorities but write a third act to the UC questline in which the government are the villains for harboring a war criminal and thus causing the deaths of countless civilians, resulting in a revolution to overthrow them.

You see the issue? Minorities have nothing to do with it, the issue is that Bethesda has cowardly and lukewarm resolutions to the concepts their plots present.