So Creation Engine 3.0 and ES6

[ebolaconundrum]

So it’s obvious that BGS intend to stick with their in house engine for ES6, I can see the pros and cons of that decision;

There would be a lot of effort in remaking in house tools and modules to work with a new engine and modders wouldn’t like having to learn new tools when they are used to very similar creation kits across multiple games.

On the other hand I suspect a lot of the legacy code in the systems is holding them back making it harder to optimise and giving them things like the precision issue that is responsible for a lot of the reason Starfield is afflicted with those 4km boxes of planets and there are so many load screens. The facial animation system wasn’t state of the art 15 years ago and is dreadful by today’s standards.

But anyway the decision I think is made so what improvements do you think they should focus on for Creation Engine 3.0?

• I would suggest a real focus on removing legacy code and bottle necks and in optimisation is important first and for most.

• Change the way the world is centred to remove the precision issues.

• Improve streaming data in and out in the background.

• Please, please, please implement a state of the art facial animation system it will make the game a lot more immersive.

• Look to build on Radiant AI to give NPCs more complex lives of their own.

• Look at reactive procedural story telling so that the players interactions with NPCs have wider and emergent consequences.

Now game play wise for ES6 I’d like to see them focus on a more open magic system more akin to Daggerfalls than Skyrims. More realistic limitations on Quests I should not be able to become arch-mage if I know only a little magic and solved the collages issues mostly with an axe, I should be rewarded in a different way, you shouldn’t become arch-mage just for helping them out.

Learn for BG3 players like it when their actions have consequences, change the world and limit their future options. How about implementing some reactive procedural story telling that can cause emergent changes to the world based on the players actions. The Nemesis system is a basic example but those ideas can be taken further and doing so would be real innovation.

Cut-down the forcing if you offer me an option it should be a real option, other NPC characters shouldn’t just force me back onto the rails.

I have to say on visuals I think any in house engine is going to struggle against the new versions of Unreal Engine having looked at the early version of 5.5 and seen nanite displacement on skeletal meshes, megalights and all the other innovations they have pioneered pushing the envelope of real-time graphics. So they need other ways for the game to excel while making sure it has at least expectable visuals for the time the game comes out.

[CurrySpirals]

TES6 is being developed on CE 2. There is no CE 3, to my knowledge.

[Clownory]

There are rumors they may use two engines to develop their future games.
Talks about the use of unreal for the rendering and the creation engine for all the rest.
the last rumor was about a remaster version of Oblivion that is being made in a combination of two engines.
Well see where this goes.

[AngleBoi7]

I would go with a "keep the mold but change what they pour in it" which would still improve things.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Its being made on the creation engine again. Automatically makes it lower mid tier at best.

[Crix]

"one eternity later"

[ebolaconundrum]

Originally posted by CurrySpirals:

TES6 is being developed on CE 2. There is no CE 3, to my knowledge.

They will modify the engine before 2028/2029 when ES6 is likely to release. If they don't the game will be using a by then hopelessly dated engine and simply won't compete with modern engines at the time.

I'm confident they will understand that.

[ebolaconundrum]

Originally posted by Clownory:

There are rumors they may use two engines to develop their future games.
Talks about the use of unreal for the rendering and the creation engine for all the rest.
the last rumor was about a remaster version of Oblivion that is being made in a combination of two engines.
Well see where this goes.

I think I saw some sort of demo real of that.

[CurrySpirals]

Originally posted by ebolaconundrum:

Originally posted by CurrySpirals:

TES6 is being developed on CE 2. There is no CE 3, to my knowledge.

They will modify the engine before 2028/2029 when ES6 is likely to release. If they don't the game will be using a by then hopelessly dated engine and simply won't compete with modern engines at the time.

I'm confident they will understand that.

I’m sure there’ll be updates as needed, but a full CE 3 overhaul is a different thing.

TES6 was announced in 2018, they are playing builds of it internally at Bethesda. Game will be out by 2026, is my guess.

[bunny de fluff]

It's not the car, it's the driver. It's not the game engine that's the problem.

[Jᴧgᴧ]

Originally posted by ebolaconundrum:

So it’s obvious that BGS intend to stick with their in house engine for ES6, I can see the pros and cons of that decision

It's mostly cons. I don't plan on taking anything Bethesda does in the future seriously because of their poor decision not to invest in their clearly aging architecture and game-production backbone.

At this stage, I believe TES6 is simply going to be "Skyrim 2.0" in a different setting, with Starfield-level production values. And that's truly something sad. They are of course free to try and prove me wrong, but over the last ~12+ years they haven't made anything worthy of paying premium prices for, or giving large chunks of free time to playing.

Starfield (and by way of extension) Shattered Space -should- have been a huge wake-up call for Bethesda. But they have (by way of reply in media channels) shown that they learned nothing from any of it (FO76 included). And that is basically the nail in the coffin for the future of FO and TES' IPs.

A delay of no less than ~4 years to completely re-write the CE from the ground up is warranted, and needed. But it appears like the money men at MS/Zenimax don't see dollar signs in investing in themselves, only in pushing more slop.

[Infinite_Princess]

I would sooner cut you.

[vonbleak]

There is nothing wrong with the engine for game like ES and FO it works just fine...

It only became an issue for SF because they were trying to make a game the engine really was not made for...

As for ES6 - All BGS have to do is look back at the previous ES games and take all the best bits and merge them into 1 ultimate classic BGS RPG... They certainly do not need to re-invent the wheel for this one...

If they go too nuts with scale and/or proc gen like they did with SF they may mess it up...

[ebolaconundrum]

Originally posted by CurrySpirals:

Originally posted by ebolaconundrum:

They will modify the engine before 2028/2029 when ES6 is likely to release. If they don't the game will be using a by then hopelessly dated engine and simply won't compete with modern engines at the time.

I'm confident they will understand that.

I’m sure there’ll be updates as needed, but a full CE 3 overhaul is a different thing.

TES6 was announced in 2018, they are playing builds of it internally at Bethesda. Game will be out by 2026, is my guess.

I'd be willing to bet TES6 will not be out in 2026. It was i preproduction in 2018, which means hardly anyone working on it. I'll eat my hat if it's out before late 2027 and far more likely 2028 or later.

[ebolaconundrum]

Originally posted by bunny de fluff:

It's not the car, it's the driver. It's not the game engine that's the problem.

Its actually a bit of both, the engine isn't responsible for the writing for example.

But it is why you have to load in 4km of a procedurally generated planet at a time.

The trouble with the "car" is it's ended up a bit like the one in this song.

https://youtu.be/060A15ELz00?si=qQJXoKEA0-K42uPm

[Ihateeverybody]

I really want Kill moves back. I can live without them, but I really really enjoy them. FO4's were the best.