Anyone else feel: Starfield = pinnacle of betrayal?

[Rejected Spavvn]

Been a long time BGS fan (decades, plural) if you count "really enjoy their games and thinks a little bit highly of them" as being a fan. Aside from the engine they use for their games being, invariably and utterly, a trash tier relic only ever barely patched up to ALMOST handle what they try to make it do... the games have been enjoyable enough to make me trust that they'd never put out complete garbage.

What they showed before the game was released; tons of clips of cool stuff that was in the game, including featuring the ability to construct your own spaceships and outposts among many other amazing-looking aspects. What they said about the story; that you'll join "Constellation" as one of the curious minds looking for "what's out there"...

[This is what I expected from the story:]
A thrilling quest to find either the aliens who created all those artifacts *or* a thrilling quest to find some other aliens who had also made it to the stars. Or in other words, I expected "first contact" to be virtually guaranteed, there is no way a game like this could possibly be created without that as its absolute main focal point since the player is literally *forced* to join a faction actively trying to find sentient aliens, a faction that already has hard evidence that such aliens at least HAVE been around the corner.
[This is what happened in the story:]
Childish stoner garbage nonsense about some multiverse trash. To me it feels like the entire story was written 100% to excuse/explain/justify the function of a NewGame+ mode, not for a single moment did it feel like this was an actual legitimate story written for the sake of being a good story. I've never been more let down by a main story in any game in the last 20 years. They could have let us marvel at amazing alien building, ships and art but instead they shoved more "humans being eternal arseholes" in out faces, as if that very fact isn't one of the main reasons many of us play games in the first place - to escape that awful reality.

[This is what I expected of being able to build my own ship:]
An easy to use editor for the big clunky exterior parts without details since that's what was in the videos they released, and then a first person detail editor for the interiors to make the ship actually look the way we want on the inside.
[How it actually works:]
You have to fly around the entire mid region of the settled systems to buy a few bits and pieces of your ship at a time if you want a decent ship. Textbook example of "looks good on paper but is horrible in reality" to be unable to obtain all pieces at once, it's a valid challenge for the first 20-60 hours and after that is nothing but a giant headache since gaining levels unlocks secret new pieces and you don't know WHERE something gets unlocked or at what level or which piece. Not to mention the editor has awful UI, is full of bugs and it's counter intuitive in the extreme.
Did I mention that interiors can't be edited? AT ALL? This came as a shock to me, not even that stupid "armillary" or whatever gets an actual visual representation inside the ship, the level of personalization that can be applied to the ships is utterly pathetic.

[This is what I expected of being able to build outposts:]
As a veteran Fallout 4 player who bought all the DLCs they released *specifically expanding the settlement construction function* it was utterly unthinkable that Starfield could aim any lower. BGS had so far never once scrapped a highly popular and loved system that generated significant sales, of course Starfield would beat Fallout hands down...
[Reality:]
Trash. Complete and utter trash. The construction mode is seriously WORSE than what they put in Fallout 4, the controls are beyond idiotic and the level of detail the player can actually decide is horrifyingly pathetic. Greenhouse? Of course I expected to be able to plant things in it myself! Now imagine the look on my face when the greenhouse was a prefab with nothing but a sterile computer panel asking which resouce I wanted it to produce... Don't even get me started on resource management in general.

[My expectation of being able to explore planets:]
Procedurally generated features of course, they touted this as a major selling point! Surely it would be quite exciting to roam the surfaces of various worlds, "we can't wait to see what you find" said The Todd...
[So yeah:]
Tiny number of prefab buildings and caves. Copypasted at random across a thousand worlds, you see the same exact building a dozen times in a mere 200 hours - only on different planets and moons. Not only that but if you want to see a beautiful ocean view you better not stand on any hill near a beach, because you can literally SEE THE CORNERS OF THE WATER since it's just this tiny square that extends a little bit outside the wimpy patch of land you're allowed to explore around wherever you landed. What is this, a game from 2001??

[My expectation of space battles:]
They did mention inspiration from some oldtimey thing called Mech Warrior or somesuch, that means it wouldn't work quite like say X4 Foundations... not sure what to make of it but hey that's probably fine, pretty sure it'd be cool to have destructible elements on the ships and all that!
[Verdict:]
Horrible UI. Took me forever to get the hang of it, played a ton of other space games and never had that level of trouble with any of them... All in all spaceflight was pretty okay though, until I finally unlocked turrets and didn't have to turn my entire sluggish cargo hauler to hit the hostiles. Don't get me wrong, love turrets, big love, kisses and hugs on turrie-chan... but even a SINGLE STRAY SHOT from an automated (as in; can't turn it off and can't give it orders) turret hits a UC or Freestar ship that is mixed up in a giant swarm of ships and suddenly you're the effin enemy of mankind and UC or Freestar will turn hostile. WHAT THE FRIDGE?? Not only that but the turrets keep aiming as if they're still tracking a target, long after the battle is over, even if you land somewhere they still keep pointing in random derpy directions and won't reset unless you edit your ship.

There is a whole mess of other issues I have with Starfield but all of the above was the really important stuff I expected before purchase and what happened to those expectations... BGS and their marketing goons set these expectations with a combination of track record and extremely misleading released information, I seriously can't see how anything I had expected was a fault of my own. "You should have checked reviews!" would probably be a quick retort by someone but I know better than to risk huge spoilers, the poor general approval rating of Starfield wasn't lost on me though so I bought it on sale... Still feel utterly and horribly disappoined and betrayed, should never have paid more than 15€ for a watered down singleplayer shooter game with a couple of scifi elements and the most ridiculous trash story in decades.

Anyway this was mostly me venting and just wanting to see how many others had the same thoughts. Am too old and sickly to keep up with forums and stuff for long but will try to reply for a day or two if anyone gives me a holler.

[alanc9]

Figured I'd better wade through the OP more than I did.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rejected Spavvn:

A thrilling quest to find either the aliens who created all those artifacts *or* a thrilling quest to find some other aliens who had also made it to the stars. Or in other words, I expected "first contact" to be virtually guaranteed, there is no way a game like this could possibly be created without that as its absolute main focal point since the player is literally *forced* to join a faction actively trying to find sentient aliens, a faction that already has hard evidence that such aliens at least HAVE been around the corner.

This is false. You don't have to join Constellation. One of my PCs never has.

Didn't find aliens, nope. Found something else instead.

Did I mention that interiors can't be edited? AT ALL? This came as a shock to me, not even that stupid "armillary" or whatever gets an actual visual representation inside the ship

The Armillary is in the grav drive, as it tells you, and plainly visible there unless your ship design buries that part.

Not only that but if you want to see a beautiful ocean view you better not stand on any hill near a beach, because you can literally SEE THE CORNERS OF THE WATER since it's just this tiny square that extends a little bit outside the wimpy patch of land you're allowed to explore around wherever you landed

Anyone have a pic of this? I can't figure out what he's talking about.

Horrible UI. Took me forever to get the hang of it, played a ton of other space games and never had that level of trouble with any of them...

I don't understand how you can have a problem with this if you can handle an X-Wing game, or even a Wing Commander game.

[alanc9]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Anticitizen 1:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von alanc9:

But then the Bethesda acquisition and subsequent moves make no sense.

Microsoft's executing a strategy which cannibalizes Steam sales in favor of GamePass subscription sales. The way you're choosing to interpret the numbers means that strategy can't ever possibly work. It's intellectually dishonest.

Ok, game made $200m on Steam and is highly unlikely to make significantly more sales due to its reception. That means that to meet its target, it needs to make $400m on GP. That's $33.3m per month or 3.3 million new subs that have their sub purely to play SF. That's before any overheads are taken into account.

Do you seriously think that there are 3.3 million people that got a new GP sub just to play this game even when it released?

Much better.

As for the question, beats me. I don't really follow subscription numbers. But if Starfield made $200M on Steam, how many players are we talking about? Millions, surely. There should be even more on GamePass, shouldn't there?

[Anticitizen 1]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von alanc9:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Anticitizen 1:

Ok, game made $200m on Steam and is highly unlikely to make significantly more sales due to its reception. That means that to meet its target, it needs to make $400m on GP. That's $33.3m per month or 3.3 million new subs that have their sub purely to play SF. That's before any overheads are taken into account.

Do you seriously think that there are 3.3 million people that got a new GP sub just to play this game even when it released?

Much better.

As for the question, beats me. I don't really follow subscription numbers. But if Starfield made $200M on Steam, how many players are we talking about? Millions, surely. There should be even more on GamePass, shouldn't there?

There were 13 million total players. Likely there are around 5 million on Steam looking ar different estimations. That means roughly 8 million on GP which is the peak. How many of those 8 million got a sub just to play this, likely a very small fraction.

An interesting bit of info that was revealed indicates that Steam players have a much higher attachment to the game than GP players.

There were only 1.6 million Starborn, this is 12.3% game completion rate. On Steam completion rate is 18%, calculating out GP completion rate, you get 8.8% or less than half of Steam completion rate. This likely indicates that the severe player decay you see on Steam is even more pronounced on GP.

[Oubley]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von veer:

Starfield is the Best and will only continue to get better. How can ANYONE feel betrayed ?

Want it on PS5.
I think it's going to be my last Bethesda/ Microsoft Game until they start cross platforming again.

Makes me sad as love Elder Scrolls games, so I guess I'll miss the next one, but enough is enough.

Don't get me wrong, paradox with their dlc BS, Sega with their total war reskins, and umm, not sure I play any sony dev games but their online playstation plus crap just to access online features is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ too for the price (Consider you already paid for a system that's supposed to have online capabilities and features to use, $70 games with online features)

BG3 game of the year? Which is sad as don't know if I'd even put it in Top 100 of all time.

It's like we're in gaming hell.

Starfield not bad but ya, feels like the end of an era if not a betrayal.

[jonnin]

I keep hoping its just the no mans sky model, where they release total junk and fix it later.

[Anticitizen 1]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MrNewVegas87:

Microsoft does not report their numbers, making this argument easier for detractors.

Well that would be because they are either not growing or growing at a rate that is well below expectations. How do I know this? They used to report GP sub growth and then they stopped 2 years ago.

Explain how you achieve $400m in a year from one single player game on a sub service that has hundreds of titles. I'll wait.

[Sonic]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rejected Spavvn:

Been a long time BGS fan (decades, plural) if you count "really enjoy their games and thinks a little bit highly of them" as being a fan. Aside from the engine they use for their games being, invariably and utterly, a trash tier relic only ever barely patched up to ALMOST handle what they try to make it do... the games have been enjoyable enough to make me trust that they'd never put out complete garbage.

What they showed before the game was released; tons of clips of cool stuff that was in the game, including featuring the ability to construct your own spaceships and outposts among many other amazing-looking aspects. What they said about the story; that you'll join "Constellation" as one of the curious minds looking for "what's out there"...

[This is what I expected from the story:]
A thrilling quest to find either the aliens who created all those artifacts *or* a thrilling quest to find some other aliens who had also made it to the stars. Or in other words, I expected "first contact" to be virtually guaranteed, there is no way a game like this could possibly be created without that as its absolute main focal point since the player is literally *forced* to join a faction actively trying to find sentient aliens, a faction that already has hard evidence that such aliens at least HAVE been around the corner.
[This is what happened in the story:]
Childish stoner garbage nonsense about some multiverse trash. To me it feels like the entire story was written 100% to excuse/explain/justify the function of a NewGame+ mode, not for a single moment did it feel like this was an actual legitimate story written for the sake of being a good story. I've never been more let down by a main story in any game in the last 20 years. They could have let us marvel at amazing alien building, ships and art but instead they shoved more "humans being eternal arseholes" in out faces, as if that very fact isn't one of the main reasons many of us play games in the first place - to escape that awful reality.

[This is what I expected of being able to build my own ship:]
An easy to use editor for the big clunky exterior parts without details since that's what was in the videos they released, and then a first person detail editor for the interiors to make the ship actually look the way we want on the inside.
[How it actually works:]
You have to fly around the entire mid region of the settled systems to buy a few bits and pieces of your ship at a time if you want a decent ship. Textbook example of "looks good on paper but is horrible in reality" to be unable to obtain all pieces at once, it's a valid challenge for the first 20-60 hours and after that is nothing but a giant headache since gaining levels unlocks secret new pieces and you don't know WHERE something gets unlocked or at what level or which piece. Not to mention the editor has awful UI, is full of bugs and it's counter intuitive in the extreme.
Did I mention that interiors can't be edited? AT ALL? This came as a shock to me, not even that stupid "armillary" or whatever gets an actual visual representation inside the ship, the level of personalization that can be applied to the ships is utterly pathetic.

[This is what I expected of being able to build outposts:]
As a veteran Fallout 4 player who bought all the DLCs they released *specifically expanding the settlement construction function* it was utterly unthinkable that Starfield could aim any lower. BGS had so far never once scrapped a highly popular and loved system that generated significant sales, of course Starfield would beat Fallout hands down...
[Reality:]
Trash. Complete and utter trash. The construction mode is seriously WORSE than what they put in Fallout 4, the controls are beyond idiotic and the level of detail the player can actually decide is horrifyingly pathetic. Greenhouse? Of course I expected to be able to plant things in it myself! Now imagine the look on my face when the greenhouse was a prefab with nothing but a sterile computer panel asking which resouce I wanted it to produce... Don't even get me started on resource management in general.

[My expectation of being able to explore planets:]
Procedurally generated features of course, they touted this as a major selling point! Surely it would be quite exciting to roam the surfaces of various worlds, "we can't wait to see what you find" said The Todd...
[So yeah:]
Tiny number of prefab buildings and caves. Copypasted at random across a thousand worlds, you see the same exact building a dozen times in a mere 200 hours - only on different planets and moons. Not only that but if you want to see a beautiful ocean view you better not stand on any hill near a beach, because you can literally SEE THE CORNERS OF THE WATER since it's just this tiny square that extends a little bit outside the wimpy patch of land you're allowed to explore around wherever you landed. What is this, a game from 2001??

[My expectation of space battles:]
They did mention inspiration from some oldtimey thing called Mech Warrior or somesuch, that means it wouldn't work quite like say X4 Foundations... not sure what to make of it but hey that's probably fine, pretty sure it'd be cool to have destructible elements on the ships and all that!
[Verdict:]
Horrible UI. Took me forever to get the hang of it, played a ton of other space games and never had that level of trouble with any of them... All in all spaceflight was pretty okay though, until I finally unlocked turrets and didn't have to turn my entire sluggish cargo hauler to hit the hostiles. Don't get me wrong, love turrets, big love, kisses and hugs on turrie-chan... but even a SINGLE STRAY SHOT from an automated (as in; can't turn it off and can't give it orders) turret hits a UC or Freestar ship that is mixed up in a giant swarm of ships and suddenly you're the effin enemy of mankind and UC or Freestar will turn hostile. WHAT THE FRIDGE?? Not only that but the turrets keep aiming as if they're still tracking a target, long after the battle is over, even if you land somewhere they still keep pointing in random derpy directions and won't reset unless you edit your ship.

There is a whole mess of other issues I have with Starfield but all of the above was the really important stuff I expected before purchase and what happened to those expectations... BGS and their marketing goons set these expectations with a combination of track record and extremely misleading released information, I seriously can't see how anything I had expected was a fault of my own. "You should have checked reviews!" would probably be a quick retort by someone but I know better than to risk huge spoilers, the poor general approval rating of Starfield wasn't lost on me though so I bought it on sale... Still feel utterly and horribly disappoined and betrayed, should never have paid more than 15€ for a watered down singleplayer shooter game with a couple of scifi elements and the most ridiculous trash story in decades.

Anyway this was mostly me venting and just wanting to see how many others had the same thoughts. Am too old and sickly to keep up with forums and stuff for long but will try to reply for a day or two if anyone gives me a holler.

Yes, yes but what does it matter when all of this eventually gets modded by the Mod Community in the future.
Doesent Starfield has a bright future ahead as many here have suggested?
There is nothing to worry about. This game will be talked about in centuries to come.

[I Denizen I]

According to BGS own published data, them 13 million players played each and average of 40hrs.

So LOL at the guys claiming "I've played for 1300 hours and still new stuff to do."

40hrs average play time is terrible for Starfield, that means a monumental amount of that 13 million did not even NG+ once, just gave up half way through the original crafted content.

I mean 2.5% on Xbox have the visit every system challenge unlocked.

Honestly I just wish the cope crew would get on the same page, you mention low players per day, you get

"its a single player game, you're supposed to do stuff once and quit." nothing to see here.

You mention the lack of interesting, or original content, you get

"I've played for 1000000 hours, I have no mods, and I'm still loving it." your opinion is invalid.

So which is it?

No need to ask, BGS told us, 40 hours means the average, or common or majority think the game is not up to snuff, END OF DISCUSSION.

[Sonic]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von I Denizen I:

According to BGS own published data, them 13 million players played each and average of 40hrs.

So LOL at the guys claiming "I've played for 1300 hours and still new stuff to do."

40hrs average play time is terrible for Starfield, that means a monumental amount of that 13 million did not even NG+ once, just gave up half way through the original crafted content.

I mean 2.5% on Xbox have the visit every system challenge unlocked.

Honestly I just wish the cope crew would get on the same page, you mention low players per day, you get

"its a single player game, you're supposed to do stuff once and quit." nothing to see here.

You mention the lack of interesting, or original content, you get

"I've played for 1000000 hours, I have no mods, and I'm still loving it." your opinion is invalid.

So which is it?

No need to ask, BGS told us, 40 hours means the average, or common or majority think the game is not up to snuff, END OF DISCUSSION.

Nothing to worry about here either.
There will be a fun mod from the mod community and fixes that problem too.
People will come back to this game and will play their 1000000 hours when the fun mod is implemented. That isnt to say that Starfield isnt fun right now, but the fun mod will make it all the better.

[Anticitizen 1]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MrNewVegas87:

Exactly as I said, you know the data doesn't exist, and you get to leverage that fact in making an argument..

The point is that the number doesn't just not exist, it is highly implausible for it to ever get to $400m outside of Steam. And I am not talking within a year, I am saying ever with some confidence.

[Anticitizen 1]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von I Denizen I:

40hrs average play time is terrible for Starfield, that means a monumental amount of that 13 million did not even NG+ once.

11.4 million out of 13 million or 88% did not finish the game. The funniest part is that they reported this with pride.

Yay, we reached 1.6 million Starborn like it was an achievement and nit an embarrassment.

[major tom]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mephitic:

The game has met all of my expectations. Too bad, so sad about yours.

i hope this is the last time we have to talk about hype and low expectation standards. if you like to confirm your single point of view have a look at steam reviews of starfield owners. just ignore the ones during the release time in september and october. i watched the review about the latest bethesda patch (124 fixes). some game breaking bugs still not included. you can review it for yourself. it seems you are a lucky guy.

[Wade]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rejected Spavvn:

[This is what I expected of being able to build my own ship:]
An easy to use editor

That's exactly what I said a long time ago, I've seen a lot of people say the game is garbage, the only good thing is Ship Builder. In my opinion Ship Builder is garbage too because it's too complicated and without auto-complete feature. I don't want to spend several days in order to design/complete 1 ship. Not to mention the fact that ships in this game don't have any purpose.