C class engines

[WOLFHORS3]

I guess I'm stupid but I can't seem to find any reason to even think about using C class engines or B class engines. I've had people try to explain it and I won't go thru all the math but every ship I've built from fighters to super heavy haulers to just big home base ships are all faster with more mobilty if I use 6 A class engines rather than 300 ton C class engines.
To have no clear benefit of going to C class engines is major screw up on Big Beth's part and if they did maybe they'll fix it but man oh man how do you miss something like that?
So if I'm being stupid please let me know how. I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

[Flanker1Six]

A good "ship option" for me has been using the various ship related perks to buff up my ship (Warhorse with upgraded reactor, and weapons) as opposed to conventional ship building per se.

[jonnin]

A different opinion...
C class engines ... I don't care about mobility (nothing can beat me at 50 in that department) or speed (speed is useful for looting, but not necessary in combat above some small value).
I care about cargo space and you need the big C engines to push a fat ship around. That is the justification. If you can do it with faster A engines, then your ship doesn't have enough cargo space :)

6k isnt a cargo ship, its a slightly beefier fighter. I think my smallest ship has 10k, and by the NG+ approaching my last one will have 20-30.
You don't have to play that way or need all that space, but if you wanted to haul crafted components (2-3kg a pop for several of them) back to vendors in quantity (enough to clean out the vendor cash supply) you need it because its all so heavy and low valued. The option is there if you want it.

[Get to the next screen]

Originally posted by WOLFHORS3:

Originally posted by Get to the next screen:

If you add any decent amount of storage, especially for a resource tanker type build, A + B class engines lose mobility very quickly.

What is your largest cargo capacity for your A or B class ship?

Ok again, to be clear, I no longer have ANY B or C class ships. They are all C class. I have about ten ships, some fighters, some cargo vessels. My biggest cargo vessel is about 6k total cargo. I'm running 6 A class engines because they give me full mobility and full speed. NONE of the C class engines will do that and I can't figure out why it's like that. It feels like if I put C class engines on a ship they should be better than A class or why are they even there, right? It might be a mod I'm using screwing with things but I just wanted to know is anyone else getting benefits from C class engines over A class engines considering you can use 6 A class and only 4 C class

My cargo specific ship is C class with base 10,000 capacity before any skill or crew modifiers. Its mobility is 70. I cannot get anywhere near the mobility with A or B class.

[Omnius10]

C class engines have better mobility values , A class engines are the fastest ... but if your ship is very light (no matter if its A,B, or C) A or B engines can do the job and give you full mobility , but with a decent amount of cargo and modules you will need C engines if you don't want a flying brick.
Here my ship with 4 C Class engines (2X C4 2x C2)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3116352293
The same with the best A class engines its a massive difference ..
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3116352372

[ListenFat]

C class engines significantly raises the mass limit by at least 4x.
And with these - you also get absurd mobility for the weight.
I no longer have a full stat screenshot but mobility was around 98 - 100
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3080971185

This is my current build completely at the parts per limit, but with a 96 mobility.
I cannot add anything more, the game wont let me; I have to remove something first.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3116324257

And for fun, the same current ship with the 180 speed engines, but mobility is dropped to 54.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3116323556

Just depends, do you want a Battleship with every hab and cargo convenience possible?
Or do you want a blazing fast tin can? Or the happy medium?

[Chell]

From my perspective, the reason to use Class C engines is primarily MANEUVERING THRUST, allowing a designer to add significantly more mass to their ship before they begin losing Mobility (Adding more cargo, heavier shields, heavier weapons and automation like turrets, etc).

Class C engines also seem to have a little bit more ENGINE THRUST per point of power used, so I suspect they can accelerate greater mass a little faster, even if they top speed is lower.

[lher]

My little short and stubby has the following base stats + max pilot skills + 1 crew member with 1 star in piloting. This build mops Kryx pirate ships guarding the station like a hot knife through butter. Using C class 34 Reactor with a top speed of 200+ and plenty of cargo room.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3116342645
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3116344065

[Knottypine]

Originally posted by HeyYou:

Engines have two stats that you care about, thrust, and maneuvering thrust.

This is the difference that I don't think is being considered. When a ship is heavier, the bigger engines have more thrust and accelerates the ship a little faster.

[xPEDx]

Originally posted by WOLFHORS3:

Originally posted by xPEDx:

Not much , i guess its the HULL?, but i die in A class in one shot , when my hull and shields are almost as high as C class, same in a B class, so maybe the enemy has extra damage buff on lower class ships?

Edit, i mean , i like the ship building and ships, but ive never really investigated any of this. i too was wondering this, but as i said above, that was my conclusion.

I don't think I'm explaining this right. Everything on my ship IS C class except the engines because no C class engines give me full speed and full mobility. So either I'm missing something or they made the C class engines completely worthless because they are NOT an improvement. They slow you down, they cut your mobility so why are they even in the game? Everything else is better as you go up in class, Why don't the engines?

Ah right, well the mobility is far lower on A than on C , not sure of exact stats but its almost double on C.

edit.. I should have read the others b4 reply lol.

[HeyYou]

Originally posted by Knottypine:

Originally posted by HeyYou:

Engines have two stats that you care about, thrust, and maneuvering thrust.

This is the difference that I don't think is being considered. When a ship is heavier, the bigger engines have more thrust and accelerates the ship a little faster.

I seem to recall a Class A engine, that had something like 30,000 (pounds?) of thrust.... Higher than almost every other engine I have seen, regardless of class, yet I haven't found them for sale anywhere. I think they were on the Star Eagle????? maybe??

[Knottypine]

Originally posted by xPEDx:

Ah right, well the mobility is far lower on A than on C , not sure of exact stats but its almost double on C.

I think what could possibly be the cause of little difference for the OP is the role of their ship. I'm currently on NG+ so my ship is junk. In my last game my ship had probably around ~10,000 cargo capacity before any additional stats, there is no way my ship would have been as manoeuvrable with A or B class engines.

[xPEDx]

Originally posted by Knottypine:

Originally posted by xPEDx:

Ah right, well the mobility is far lower on A than on C , not sure of exact stats but its almost double on C.

I think what could possibly be the cause of little difference for the OP is the role of their ship. I'm currently on NG+ so my ship is junk. In my last game my ship had probably around ~10,000 cargo capacity before any additional stats, there is no way my ship would have been as manoeuvrable with A or B class engines.

Agreed

[Ommamar]

My understanding is the engines from an acceleration stand point is inverse to the reactors so a class A engine has more acceleration potential then a class C engine. As mentioned though there is another component that has to do with mobility.

To attempt to correlate it with a current combustion engine in a simplified form. If you compare a V-6 to a V-8 engine the V-6 will have the quicker low end acceleration but the V-8 will have a higher top end potential. Of course there is a ton more that goes into the formula such as the transmission and drive train which can dictate things in a large way. Then of course you get into the mass of the vehicles an 18 wheeler is never going to out accelerate a Corvette although the engine in the 18 wheeler has a ton more potential power to use but it is hampered by the mass of the 18 wheeler.

I think this is what Bethesda was attempting to replicate. A smaller ship with a big reactor along with class A engines will be able to reach the maximum speed quicker but gives up mobility so in a straight line it can go fast but will not be able to turn quickly. So you can easily break free of the missile lock using the boost but to turn back into the fight you want to slow back down quickly to the optimal speed range. The inverse of this is a big ship with a lot of cargo and weapons which will be better suited for the class C engine which have the lower speed but higher mobility. I am finding most of them can negate any missile damage using big shield and large hull health so you don't need the quick acceleration in space combat.

One component that I think was scrapped was fuel usage that the different engines would need. Which would of added another component to the formula if it was implemented. I wouldn't be surprised to see a survival type of difficulty added with the DLC which will change how ships are built.

[HeyYou]

Originally posted by Ommamar:

My understanding is the engines from an acceleration stand point is inverse to the reactors so a class A engine has more acceleration potential then a class C engine. As mentioned though there is another component that has to do with mobility.

To attempt to correlate it with a current combustion engine in a simplified form. If you compare a V-6 to a V-8 engine the V-6 will have the quicker low end acceleration but the V-8 will have a higher top end potential. Of course there is a ton more that goes into the formula such as the transmission and drive train which can dictate things in a large way. Then of course you get into the mass of the vehicles an 18 wheeler is never going to out accelerate a Corvette although the engine in the 18 wheeler has a ton more potential power to use but it is hampered by the mass of the 18 wheeler.

I think this is what Bethesda was attempting to replicate. A smaller ship with a big reactor along with class A engines will be able to reach the maximum speed quicker but gives up mobility so in a straight line it can go fast but will not be able to turn quickly. So you can easily break free of the missile lock using the boost but to turn back into the fight you want to slow back down quickly to the optimal speed range. The inverse of this is a big ship with a lot of cargo and weapons which will be better suited for the class C engine which have the lower speed but higher mobility. I am finding most of them can negate any missile damage using big shield and large hull health so you don't need the quick acceleration in space combat.

One component that I think was scrapped was fuel usage that the different engines would need. Which would of added another component to the formula if it was implemented. I wouldn't be surprised to see a survival type of difficulty added with the DLC which will change how ships are built.

Either a DLC from Beth, or, a mod on Nexus.... (or elsewhere) Some variety of survival mode is inevitable. I suspect fuel requirements for ships will also be coming from modders, we already have a mod that makes ballistic weapons, and missile launchers require you to replenish the ammo for them. (and if you run out in combat..... either use your energy weapons, or run away. :D )

[xPEDx]

Well when im making my ship , i go for manoeuvrability, the highest A class mov is 2200, but the C start at 6600 up to 8400, but that will be hampered by mass too, i always try keep my manoeuvrability above 80 if i can,
Moslty its at 100 though for my fighter class, and down to 65 min for turreted transporter.