I'm so sick of these man childs complaining about a game they were blindly hyping and now are complaining about, AFTER RELEASE

[niralamart000]

"Oh this game looks really generic but i'm very hyped for it"

Freaking honeymoon phase zombies cluttering the gaming industry especially the idiots in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfxbwbhQGpI

i don't understand just how much money these people make that they rather make a dice roll and pretend the game is gonna be good without analyzing the trailers. I don't understand do you main demographic people have special eyes which distort reality before a game releases or maybe there is some voodoo crud in your environment? i was legit shouting about how much this game needs to improve upon this sector, this and that but holy hell every constructive criticism was getting drowned out by shills and "NMS2" OR "BETTER THEN STAR CITIZEN" chanting. it's like none of the main demographic learned from cyberpunk.

if bethesda employees are here , give them a message, don't listen to the people, THEY ARE R-WORD

[Awakened Gamer]

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

Originally posted by Starseed Gamer:

Paid shilling is real anyways this is an objective review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmWXNkX7Gew&t=1529s

The fact he says "cRPG´s" is enough for me to not take him seriously.
I love the old TES up until Morrowind.. it was "back then" a modern aRPG (not cRPG) and while it was not complex, it was enough for even cRPG fans to love them.

Starfields biggest issue is (I agree with him there) not the fact the RPG elements have been watered down, its the fact that they took away immersion (in most people´s opinion, if you want to we can go more into detail about it)
Another factor is player agency.. it might have never been a big thing, but atleast the illusion of it was good enough to make people feel they had it.
Then we have stuff like story elements and statsbasings, those have been albelt never complex or masterpieces, still decent or good.

Starfield feels soulless for many, because it seems like its mroe focused on just spamming you the same content over and over again (but without making an effort to hide it) it feels like just wasting time for the sake of wasting time.

Its sad, because Starfields universe and its ideas have huge potentials! they could have done so much.. but then again, development complication and a change in leadership during the last year (that might have upped performance a bit, but also cut some goldboxed mehenics, is what I heard) might have contributed.


I am biased however.. my TT logic sometimes do bias me unrealistic on games, then again I try to understand that bias and accept it can´t be in everything that is an RPG. But for me immersion is one of the biggest must have.. I have a heard time liking RPG´s without statsbasings as well, but can easily love them anyway, if the story is deep enough, player agency and exploration is meaningful.. Skyrim was not complex for me, but I felt immersed and that I had agency, factor in that not everything looked rehashed.


Another thing I´ve noticed is that player models have an isssue (I see Bioware was mentioned, lets talk about ME:A.. one of the same issues.. when you fail to mimic proper emotions via animations and eyes got full murder mode, you set yourself up for taking away immersion.)


Anyway.. I understand what you are trying to say and what the yb wants to tell.. I can accept a few of the points and Starfield is getting bashed a tad to hard maybe.. but that is because of the hype and expectations (all modern AAA titles get that)

I do not agree with allot of this and the way you ignore the shilling speaks volumes its not just random players spewing nonsense its obviously a huge agenda from companies. You took the video out of context anyways and thats all I will say for this.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by Starseed Gamer:

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

The fact he says "cRPG´s" is enough for me to not take him seriously.
I love the old TES up until Morrowind.. it was "back then" a modern aRPG (not cRPG) and while it was not complex, it was enough for even cRPG fans to love them.

Starfields biggest issue is (I agree with him there) not the fact the RPG elements have been watered down, its the fact that they took away immersion (in most people´s opinion, if you want to we can go more into detail about it)
Another factor is player agency.. it might have never been a big thing, but atleast the illusion of it was good enough to make people feel they had it.
Then we have stuff like story elements and statsbasings, those have been albelt never complex or masterpieces, still decent or good.

Starfield feels soulless for many, because it seems like its mroe focused on just spamming you the same content over and over again (but without making an effort to hide it) it feels like just wasting time for the sake of wasting time.

Its sad, because Starfields universe and its ideas have huge potentials! they could have done so much.. but then again, development complication and a change in leadership during the last year (that might have upped performance a bit, but also cut some goldboxed mehenics, is what I heard) might have contributed.


I am biased however.. my TT logic sometimes do bias me unrealistic on games, then again I try to understand that bias and accept it can´t be in everything that is an RPG. But for me immersion is one of the biggest must have.. I have a heard time liking RPG´s without statsbasings as well, but can easily love them anyway, if the story is deep enough, player agency and exploration is meaningful.. Skyrim was not complex for me, but I felt immersed and that I had agency, factor in that not everything looked rehashed.


Another thing I´ve noticed is that player models have an isssue (I see Bioware was mentioned, lets talk about ME:A.. one of the same issues.. when you fail to mimic proper emotions via animations and eyes got full murder mode, you set yourself up for taking away immersion.)


Anyway.. I understand what you are trying to say and what the yb wants to tell.. I can accept a few of the points and Starfield is getting bashed a tad to hard maybe.. but that is because of the hype and expectations (all modern AAA titles get that)

I do not agree with allot of this and the way you ignore the shilling speaks volumes its not just random players spewing nonsense its obviously a huge agenda from companies. You took the video out of context anyways and thats all I will say for this.

I took the video out of context? I think I was pretty well rounded about it and what I agree and not agree with.
What would you call me? a shill? a hater?.. I am just an old fart, that likes to play videogames.. I have my subjective opinion (we are all biased) but respect other people and their opinion.

With that said, I think its perfectly valid to debate why a 400 million USD budget game, can´t even sell more than 1.5m copies on steam and why its concurrent is already lower than some niche games (like HoI4)

I tried to give my point of view on it and why I myself have refunded Starfield (the first ever game made by Bethesda, that I refunded and I played since their first game (Gridiron!) Bethesda started out as an Sports and Action game developer (that is important to remember)

I have to admit, that Home Alone still gives me nightmare when I remember it and yes, I did dig a hole in my old garden and toss it there.. (it haunted me on the shelf) but I regret that, its fun to play these old Atari and NES games now, even the bad ones.

But in our modern world, there are so extremely many possible games to play and such big variety.. but also within the same genres. If you don´t listen to fans and go for the mainstream crowd, there is always a risk that both much abandon you or one might leave..

I´ve been rather clear on this forum, that I think Starfield is decent for what it tries to be, I just don´t have much interest in what it tries to be.. But I could have had that, if it had basic RPG elements.. Overall.. there are just better alternatives atm.

I have both friends and family members, that like Starfield and actually still play it a bit, so its not like I can´t see its appeal.

[indigo]

I see tons of "complaint" threads. I don't bother reading 99.99% of them, and usually only respond to the most out-of-touch-with-reality poster in any of them.

I watch no videos anyone shares. I like no videos. I subscribe to no channels and I block all ads without mercy, because, well, I lack any mercy in the first place. It is a sign of weakness to me.

I've played TES3, TES4 and TES5. I'll play TES6 too. It has taken me years, and I do mean YEARS, to finish any of these games, and I still haven't finished Skyrim yet. I play long enough to figure out what I find to be lacking, or am inspired to create something, then it's off the the CK I go. Sometimes people ask me to make something specific, and sometimes I do. Sometimes I offer to but charge them for taking up my time, and may charge them so much they opt to bother someone else to make things for them.

You want a model of a what? To put where? Yeah, here's my Turbosquid, you can purchase that model from there. Yes, I am asking $300 for a giant male reproductive organ sliding board model. No, I will not give you a discount. Ask again and the price goes up to $500.

The Elder Data Pads: Starfield is another installation in this same kind of arena - an amazing sandbox for those of us with the skills, aptitudes and willingness to create and showcase our creativity. These have always been a strange sort of "joint-venture". Bethesda creates the "matter" and carves out a little piece of "sample universe", we come in and transform that into something amazing.

[Awakened Gamer]

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

Originally posted by Starseed Gamer:

I do not agree with allot of this and the way you ignore the shilling speaks volumes its not just random players spewing nonsense its obviously a huge agenda from companies. You took the video out of context anyways and thats all I will say for this.

I took the video out of context? I think I was pretty well rounded about it and what I agree and not agree with.
What would you call me? a shill? a hater?.. I am just an old fart, that likes to play videogames.. I have my subjective opinion (we are all biased) but respect other people and their opinion.

With that said, I think its perfectly valid to debate why a 400 million USD budget game, can´t even sell more than 1.5m copies on steam and why its concurrent is already lower than some niche games (like HoI4)

I tried to give my point of view on it and why I myself have refunded Starfield (the first ever game made by Bethesda, that I refunded and I played since their first game (Gridiron!) Bethesda started out as an Sports and Action game developer (that is important to remember)

I have to admit, that Home Alone still gives me nightmare when I remember it and yes, I did dig a hole in my old garden and toss it there.. (it haunted me on the shelf) but I regret that, its fun to play these old Atari and NES games now, even the bad ones.

But in our modern world, there are so extremely many possible games to play and such big variety.. but also within the same genres. If you don´t listen to fans and go for the mainstream crowd, there is always a risk that both much abandon you or one might leave..

I´ve been rather clear on this forum, that I think Starfield is decent for what it tries to be, I just don´t have much interest in what it tries to be.. But I could have had that, if it had basic RPG elements.. Overall.. there are just better alternatives atm.

I have both friends and family members, that like Starfield and actually still play it a bit, so its not like I can´t see its appeal.

Just because I disagree does not mean I am calling you a shill but there are many manipulators here and no one is immune to being a suspect including me. Anyways I am moving, but I am not going to pretend I have not seen you in here often saying allot of other things. Like I said out of conext.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by Starseed Gamer:

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

I took the video out of context? I think I was pretty well rounded about it and what I agree and not agree with.
What would you call me? a shill? a hater?.. I am just an old fart, that likes to play videogames.. I have my subjective opinion (we are all biased) but respect other people and their opinion.

With that said, I think its perfectly valid to debate why a 400 million USD budget game, can´t even sell more than 1.5m copies on steam and why its concurrent is already lower than some niche games (like HoI4)

I tried to give my point of view on it and why I myself have refunded Starfield (the first ever game made by Bethesda, that I refunded and I played since their first game (Gridiron!) Bethesda started out as an Sports and Action game developer (that is important to remember)

I have to admit, that Home Alone still gives me nightmare when I remember it and yes, I did dig a hole in my old garden and toss it there.. (it haunted me on the shelf) but I regret that, its fun to play these old Atari and NES games now, even the bad ones.

But in our modern world, there are so extremely many possible games to play and such big variety.. but also within the same genres. If you don´t listen to fans and go for the mainstream crowd, there is always a risk that both much abandon you or one might leave..

I´ve been rather clear on this forum, that I think Starfield is decent for what it tries to be, I just don´t have much interest in what it tries to be.. But I could have had that, if it had basic RPG elements.. Overall.. there are just better alternatives atm.

I have both friends and family members, that like Starfield and actually still play it a bit, so its not like I can´t see its appeal.

Just because I disagree does not mean I am calling you a shill but there are many manipulators here and no one is immune to being a suspect including me. Anyways I am moving on like I said out of context.

It is perfectly fine to agree to disagree. I fully respect that and thank you for being friendly. That is atleast the best way to communicate and have a good debate, even if one can´t complete the debate and reach a compromise or agreement.

Have a good day.

[Awakened Gamer]

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

Originally posted by Starseed Gamer:

Just because I disagree does not mean I am calling you a shill but there are many manipulators here and no one is immune to being a suspect including me. Anyways I am moving on like I said out of context.

It is perfectly fine to agree to disagree. I fully respect that and thank you for being friendly. That is atleast the best way to communicate and have a good debate, even if one can´t complete the debate and reach a compromise or agreement.

Have a good day.

You to and thank you!

[Sikklid]

Blind hype?

Were you in a coma during all of their delays to "get it right" and MSBGS's manipulative and misleading multimillion dollar campaign that included SPONSORED streamers, youtubers, influencers, and gaming sites? Go back and watch everything.

MS and BGS's marketing execs cannot just make up lies like they did. There are responsibilities to the customer they must follow. In case you dont understand how or why marketing can be misleading, look up the FTC's rules on "misleading advertising" (something the gaming industry is full of).

In the case of Starfield, MSBGS's misleading and manipulative advertising was as follows:

• Meticulously edited "Gameplay Events" to obfuscate important gameplay specifics in the final product - all finely tuned with Todd's narration and Zur's music (the only thing excellent in this game).
  
  
• Constant touting of CE2.0 next gen "possibilities" that would never end up in the final product.
  
  
• Labeling Starfield as "The Space Game" while fully understanding its vague implications where anyone can assume anything about the product.
  
  
• Repeating "BGS RPG through and through" where you can be who you want, go where you want and do what you want "like our past games" and at a galactic scale, again while fully understanding its implications.
  
  
• Screenshots and over-the-shoulder blurry gameplay "leaks" to further imply well thought out exploration, gunplay, dungeons and "level design" (all absent) - to intensify "the hype" and speculation with both sponsored and non-sponsored youtubers, streamers, influencers and gaming sites dissecting the "leaks" - knowing full well it all adds to the momentum of Starfield's marketing campaign.
  
  
• Pete and Todd interviews REAFFIRMING all the misled public speculation that was 100% based on BGS's marketing, while pretending their buried deep, off hand interview comments about the realities of "Starfield fan's expectations" they themselves set were good enough, allowing the misleading perceptions of Starfield to ride out.
  
  
• "Access media" and industry giant gaming sites assisted in misleading the public. For example, IGN's Ryan Mccaffrey (Todd's pal) adding his extremely positive "opinions" and even more Todd Howard "advertising" disguised as interviews to further mislead customers.
  
  
• Elton John cover commercial (really BGS?) and Anime-like animated shorts, implying more missing gameplay features were included.
  
  
• "vAsT"

The game was NONE of this. It's not even an exploration game, in a game about exploration. Marketing implied the deepest and most well known BGS gameplay mechanics and features (such as BGS's trademark deep exploration/discovery, well thought out level design, immersive visual environmental storytelling, etc etc etc) would not only be present - but MASSIVELY evolved - and not just some conversation gimmicks and more BGS bugs (which is really all we got).

How is anyone else other than MS and BGS shot-callers responsible for a MSBGS product that (even after several delays) couldnt even partially live up to what was implied by their own misleading, multimillion dollar marketing campaign that set over hyped expectations that they were 100% responsible for, and fully backed by the resources of MS, an industry giant even bigger than BGS themselves?

[Sikklid]

Originally posted by AdahnGorion:

Originally posted by Sikklid:

Blind hype?

Were you in a coma during all of their delays to "get it right" and MSBGS's manipulative and misleading multimillion dollar campaign that included SPONSORED streamers, youtubers, influencers, and gaming sites? Go back and watch everything.

MS and BGS's marketing execs cannot just make up lies like they did. There are responsibilities to the customer they must follow. In case you dont understand how or why marketing can be misleading, look up the FTC's rules on "misleading advertising" (something the gaming industry is full of).

In the case of Starfield, MSBGS's misleading and manipulative advertising was as follows:

• Meticulously edited "Gameplay Events" to obfuscate important gameplay specifics in the final product - all finely tuned with Todd's narration and Zur's music (the only thing excellent in this game).
  
  
• Constant touting of CE2.0 next gen "possibilities" that would never end up in the final product.
  
  
• Labeling Starfield as "The Space Game" while fully understanding its vague implications where anyone can assume anything about the product.
  
  
• Repeating "BGS RPG through and through" where you can be who you want, go where you want and do what you want "like our past games" and at a galactic scale, again while fully understanding its implications.
  
  
• Screenshots and over-the-shoulder blurry gameplay "leaks" to further imply well thought out exploration, gunplay, dungeons and "level design" - to intensify "the hype" and speculation with both sponsored and non-sponsored youtubers, streamers, influencers and gaming sites dissecting the "leaks" - knowing full well it all adds to the momentum of Starfield's marketing campaign.
  
  
• Pete and Todd interviews REAFFIRMING all the misled public speculation that was 100% based on BGS's marketing, while pretending their buried deep, off hand interview comments about the realities of "Starfield fan's expectations" they themselves set were good enough, allowing the misleading perceptions of Starfield to ride out.
  
  
• "Access media" and industry giant gaming sites assisted in misleading the public. For example, IGN's Ryan Mccaffrey (Todd's pal) adding his extremely positive "opinions" and even more Todd Howard "advertising" disguised as interviews to further mislead customers.
  
  
• Elton John cover commercial (really BGS?) and Anime-like animated shorts, implying more missing gameplay features were included.
  
  
• "vAsT"

The game was NONE of this. It's not even an exploration game, in a game about exploration. Marketing implied the deepest and most well known BGS gameplay mechanics and features (such as BGS's well known deep exploration/discovery, well thought out level design, immersive visual environmental storytelling, etc etc etc) would not only be present - but MASSIVELY evolved - and not just some conversation gimmicks and more BGS bugs (which is really all we got).

How is anyone else other than MS and BGS shot-callers responsible for a MSBGS product that (even after several delays) couldnt even partially live up to what was implied by their own misleading, multimillion dollar marketing campaign that set over hyped expectations that they were 100% responsible for, and fully backed by the resources of MS, an industry giant even bigger than BGS themselves?

If you think this game has conducted false advertisement and that you have proof about it, you can actually report it to steam.
You can do this on the storefront. Head down (under the developer and publisher, genre details and you will see a red flag)
Click the flag (report this game for violations) then pick False Advertisement
Upload and write about your proof to the false advertisement.


Valve takes false advertisement rather seriously and might actually change storefront information and showcases if you are in the right, I´ve even seen games being removed.

Personally I don´t think there is any misleading, atleast not outside the commonly used and everybody with just a basic understanding of the gaming industry and MS/BGS knew what this game would be atleast to some degree..

Thanks for the tip, however I was speaking beyond whats listed on the Steam page.

Its also a a very fine line between misleading and clear false advertising - both of which can be hard to spot since we are so condition to accept excuses after release. The FTC does have rules on this that if more people familiarized themselves, they would be able to spot it and call it out more publicly.

The problem is this industry is so chock full of misleading ads that any entities with actual authority would have a backlog for years before they could clean up all the predatory, guerrilla marketing.

We as customers have a responsibility to call it out and at least make it aware to our fellow hobbyists imo and push back when we can - since its gullible to assume the gov is going to save us from anything, especially predatory video games marketing.