There's no skill to lock picking

[captainpatch]

Supposedly when you open a digipick, whether it be a Novice, Advanced, Expert, or Master lock, the correct choices WILL be there. The sequence of "tumblers" would be set and it's just a matter of choosing which "key" goes with which "tumbler".

But that is NOT the way it works. I have found that quite often that, of the keys provided, several keys will fit that initial tumbler. So it boils down to "eenie, meenie, minie, mo" to choose which key to use. Use the wrong key, and one of the next tumblers will change to a combination that will not fit any of your remaining keys. I have had MANY cases where after using my one and only 1-key on a 1-slot tumbler, the next tumbler is another 1-slot tumbler. And I definitely had not started with TWO 1-keys.

On this my first playthrough, I deliberately set Difficulty to Easy so I can concentrate on learning the basic game mechanics. But even on a setting of Easy, and with 4/4 in the Security skill, more than half of my lockpick attempts are doomed to failure. At least in Skyrim and Fallout the player _could_ pick difficult locks if he had a deft touch with lockpicks or bobby pins + screwdriver. Here, it's almost pure Luck.

[Varanus]

Originally posted by Lavian:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Very rarely a lock will be glitched, with most people believing that its a visual bug.


But if you can't solve more than half of the locks it's an issue with your skill level, not the mini game itself ... the most common advice it to solve the rings backwards and only commit once you've gotten all the picks in place.

Oh it's absolutely a visual bug.

See this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3048212865

That slots in there, and you can tell it fits by the blue ring, but visually, one of the slots is missing on the ring.

Well, thats an interesting bug. Never seen something like that happen in my own picking. But I can see how that would cause some confusion and frustration. O_O

[DW420]

If the lock picking system requires no skill, then why did the OP just spend a paragraph moaning about how they are unable to get locks open?

Perhaps some "git gud" is in order..

[Marco]

Originally posted by Langkard:

And how do you explain a series where there are three or more one-slot tumblers, but the initial selection of available keys provided only two one-pin keys? The ONLY explanation I can come up with is that further in tumbler required a specific key, one which was erroneously used for an earlier tumbler. In response, the program changes that further in tumbler to something the player does not have a key for. Like turning a 3-slot tumbler into a 1-slot tumbler.

There is no such thing as a "1-slot tumbler". *Every* ring of the lock is designed to be opened with exactly two picks. No more, no less. If you get two one-slot picks and end up requiring three, then you've used the wrong picks earlier in the lock and that is 100% a skill issue.

The truth of the matter is that the locks *do* require skill. They're not particularly difficult (and we can talk about the lack of reward given after successfully picking) but it is 100% a skill game with no luck required whatsoever.

[eMYNOCK]

Originally posted by DW420:

If the lock picking system requires no skill, then why did the OP just spend a paragraph moaning about how they are unable to get locks open?

Perhaps some "git gud" is in order..

thats such a nice way to say that it boils down to "skill issue"?

Originally posted by Marco:

Originally posted by Langkard:

And how do you explain a series where there are three or more one-slot tumblers, but the initial selection of available keys provided only two one-pin keys? The ONLY explanation I can come up with is that further in tumbler required a specific key, one which was erroneously used for an earlier tumbler. In response, the program changes that further in tumbler to something the player does not have a key for. Like turning a 3-slot tumbler into a 1-slot tumbler.

There is no such thing as a "1-slot tumbler". *Every* ring of the lock is designed to be opened with exactly two picks. No more, no less. If you get two one-slot picks and end up requiring three, then you've used the wrong picks earlier in the lock and that is 100% a skill issue.

The truth of the matter is that the locks *do* require skill. They're not particularly difficult (and we can talk about the lack of reward given after successfully picking) but it is 100% a skill game with no luck required whatsoever.

in rare circumstances its possible to solve the locks with 3 keys, one key and 2 keys...

i don't know how rare it is but i definitively did that already...
i believe i had to solve at least one lock while using 4 single piece keys.

[OneRichGuy]

I was addicted to lock picking and then I figured out it's trash and stopped. Anyone wanna buy a few hundred digipics? 😆

[Marco]

Originally posted by eMYNOCK:

in rare circumstances its possible to solve the locks with 3 keys, one key and 2 keys...

i don't know how rare it is but i definitively did that already...
i believe i had to solve at least one lock while using 4 single piece keys.

It's possible to solve a ring with more than 2 and have it work out because you didn't need that extra pick for a different ring, yes. I don't recall ever having seen a ring only require one pick though.

Let me amend my statement: absent any glitches in the game, each ring requires exactly two picks.

And the fact remains that OP is having a skill problem.

[dulany67]

There is skill, just not physical skill. And the results are not really success or failure, but how long it takes you to succeed.

Some will have a leg up and understand the pattern recognition easily, while others will have to train their mind.

[ParatrooperGR]

I don't see how anyone would claim there is no skill involved? I actually thought this was one of the very, very few cases where something was "added" by Starfield. However, I would also concede that it gets incredibly repetitive -and just a speed bump- once you've done a hundred of them. The 4th rank of the skill should make lockpicking automatic. Fair compensation for adding 4 points' worth of investment, especially given that the 4th rank currently, is redundant.

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by ParatrooperGR:

I don't see how anyone would claim there is no skill involved? I actually thought this was one of the very, very few cases where something was "added" by Starfield. However, I would also concede that it gets incredibly repetitive -and just a speed bump- once you've done a hundred of them. The 4th rank of the skill should make lockpicking automatic. Fair compensation for adding 4 points' worth of investment, especially given that the 4th rank currently, is redundant.

There is skill. Crossword puzzles require some skill and so does the Rubic Cube. But if you hate crossword puzzles and the Rubic Cube, it's not a matter of skill for everyone, it's a matter of having fun and spending the time doing things you enjoy.

Thus the reason I am glad Beth adding the use of the console.

[indigo]

Originally posted by captainpatch:

Supposedly when you open a digipick, whether it be a Novice, Advanced, Expert, or Master lock, the correct choices WILL be there. The sequence of "tumblers" would be set and it's just a matter of choosing which "key" goes with which "tumbler".

But that is NOT the way it works. I have found that quite often that, of the keys provided, several keys will fit that initial tumbler. So it boils down to "eenie, meenie, minie, mo" to choose which key to use. Use the wrong key, and one of the next tumblers will change to a combination that will not fit any of your remaining keys. I have had MANY cases where after using my one and only 1-key on a 1-slot tumbler, the next tumbler is another 1-slot tumbler. And I definitely had not started with TWO 1-keys.

On this my first playthrough, I deliberately set Difficulty to Easy so I can concentrate on learning the basic game mechanics. But even on a setting of Easy, and with 4/4 in the Security skill, more than half of my lockpick attempts are doomed to failure. At least in Skyrim and Fallout the player _could_ pick difficult locks if he had a deft touch with lockpicks or bobby pins + screwdriver. Here, it's almost pure Luck.

Except that's not quite right either. Unfilled "holes" tend to be "passed along" to the next ring, meaning if you're not thinking ahead, often 3 rings at a time, you're going to eenie the wrong initial key and not make it. Skill AND intelligence are required to be successful.

But that is exactly why you get stuck with a left-over single-pin - you made the wrong decision on the ring before, and possible as many as 6 rings ago.

I get the skill-tree as well, going "yep, that's far too complicated to even try", but we should still be able to waste digipicks trying. Meanwhile, I will continue to appeal to The Nightingales and Nocturnal, for the Digiskeleton Key.

[Boe Jiden]

I miss the actual lockpicking minigame, not this next generation gaming magpicking.

[Darkside99x]

Been the same since Skyrim, skill only exists to gate harder locks where in older games you could still attempt them albeit with extreme difficulty.

[Langkard]

Originally posted by captainpatch:

Originally posted by Langkard:

Odd, because what you just described was not lock picking requiring no skill, but rather the lock picker not having any skill or patience or maybe the not having the memory to figure out all of the rings before picking the first one. I have only failed once, in many attempts, due to being in a hurry and not bothering to check for redundant combination on the rings before using the first pick.

Horse hocky. The most number of pins any key will have is 4. The preview of subsequent tumblers is +3. Master locks have more than four tumblers. I have encountered quite a few where the first four tumblers all have more than 4 slots.... and there will be at least four different keys that work for all four of the shown tumblers. Then when I wade through to #5, it won't accept any of the remaining keys.

And how do you explain a series where there are three or more one-slot tumblers, but the initial selection of available keys provided only two one-pin keys? The ONLY explanation I can come up with is that further in tumbler required a specific key, one which was erroneously used for an earlier tumbler. In response, the program changes that further in tumbler to something the player does not have a key for. Like turning a 3-slot tumbler into a 1-slot tumbler.

You're doing it wrong. I have over 200 digipicks now, because I find far more than I have used.

It's not rocket science. If you insist on solving it beginning with the outer tumbler first then working your way in, you will fail on master locks. Always figure out the entire lock before doing the first tumbler. And there is a trick to that.

Having 1 point in security so that the ring turns blue if a key will work is necessary.

Master locks, and all of the lower level ones too, will usually have at least one key which works on only one tumbler ring. Look through each key in order. All of them. Find the key which works on only one tumbler. Worst case, on very rare master locks, you will need to solve two rings because no keys fit just one tumbler. Find a key that only works on one or two tumbler rings. So figure out that ring first. Now you have eliminated at least one key, probably more. So look through the remaining keys to find one or more which can only work with the one you solved plus another tumbler ring. You solved one tumbler in your head, so that should mean there is at least one key which will solve just another tumbler. Rinse and repeat until you have them all solved in your head, then and only then insert the keys.

It's not horse hockey unless you make it so.

[[FuFo] Mortucus]

i think the real issue is whats inside almost everything you waste you're time picking open

[tengen]

Originally posted by Langkard:

Originally posted by captainpatch:

Horse hocky. The most number of pins any key will have is 4. The preview of subsequent tumblers is +3. Master locks have more than four tumblers. I have encountered quite a few where the first four tumblers all have more than 4 slots.... and there will be at least four different keys that work for all four of the shown tumblers. Then when I wade through to #5, it won't accept any of the remaining keys.

And how do you explain a series where there are three or more one-slot tumblers, but the initial selection of available keys provided only two one-pin keys? The ONLY explanation I can come up with is that further in tumbler required a specific key, one which was erroneously used for an earlier tumbler. In response, the program changes that further in tumbler to something the player does not have a key for. Like turning a 3-slot tumbler into a 1-slot tumbler.

You're doing it wrong. I have over 200 digipicks now, because I find far more than I have used.

It's not rocket science. If you insist on solving it beginning with the outer tumbler first then working your way in, you will fail on master locks. Always figure out the entire lock before doing the first tumbler. And there is a trick to that.

Having 1 point in security so that the ring turns blue if a key will work is necessary.

Master locks, and all of the lower level ones too, will usually have at least one key which works on only one tumbler ring. Look through each key in order. All of them. Find the key which works on only one tumbler. Worst case, on very rare master locks, you will need to solve two rings because no keys fit just one tumbler. Find a key that only works on one or two tumbler rings. So figure out that ring first. Now you have eliminated at least one key, probably more. So look through the remaining keys to find one or more which can only work with the one you solved plus another tumbler ring. You solved one tumbler in your head, so that should mean there is at least one key which will solve just another tumbler. Rinse and repeat until you have them all solved in your head, then and only then insert the keys.

It's not horse hockey unless you make it so.

This !