"Best" Weapons aren't always C-Class?

[Jaggid Edje]

I recently went through the stats of every ship module in the game to calculate the "best" of each type for each ship class to make myself a concise list for use when ship building. Something I noticed is that for some weapon types, the "best" is not a C-class.

I calculated "best" for weapons as the weapon with the highest damage per second per power. Or dps/p as I abbreviated. And here's what I got for two weapon types as best:

Particle Weapons

• A Class - Vanguard Obliterator Autoprojector (37 dps/p)
  
• B Class - PBO-175 Auto Helion Beam (38 dps/p, Best in show)
  
• C Class - Obliterator 250 MeV Auto Alpha Beam, Light Scythe (33 dps/p, not as good as B class)

EM Weapons

• A Class - Nullifier 1750 Suppressor, Light Scythe (24 dps/p, best in show)
  
• B Class - Firebolt 4000 Suppressor, Light Scythe (19.6 dps/p)
  
• C Class - Fulminator 8000 Suppressor, Light Scythe (15.5 dps/p)

So the best EM Weapon is A-class, and the best particle weapon is B Class. I didn't list them above, but the same is true for Laser and Ballistic weapons (B class is highest dps for both). The only weapons where the C class is the highest dps/p are missile weapons and laser turrets.

Is there something I'm missing, in terms of how weapons are affected by ship class? Or is it simply that you really are better off using a B class particle weapon and an A class EM weapon, even if your ship is C-class, assuming you intend to put full power to weapons?

I understand that range is a little better on the C-class, so is that what's supposed to lure you into upgrading them to a lower dps weapon?

[Mightylink]

Stats seem to be all over the place... I noticed a lot of C-Class weapons are cheaper too, it doesn't feel like higher tiers like they should be.

[Jack]

* A Class - Vanguard Obliterator Autoprojector (37 dps/p)
- Max Power 2
- Cost 14,100
- Mass 1
* B Class - PBO-175 Auto Helion Beam (38 dps/p, Best in show)
- Max Power 3
- Cost 29,500
- Mass 5
* C Class - Obliterator 250 MeV Auto Alpha Beam, Light Scythe (33 dps/p, not as good as B class)
- Max Power 4
- Cost 30,200
- Mass 7

Theoretically I can have 2 Vanguard Obliterator Autoprojector which will be better than a Obliterator 250 MeV Auto Alpha Beam, cost less and lighter

[krabbelig]

It actually may depend on your propulsion skill, crew and Reactor type. While A Class Vanguard Autoprojector is the best ever when you don't have excess of energy - PBO-175 start to look just a little bit more attrctive when you do. But stilll just a little.

Moreover you can save some energy having 2 weapon types instead of 3. For me Partical + EM (I love boarding - yohooo) are enough. Though I still can use 1 or 2 laser auto turrets as third weapon to scratch their shields a little while I can't aim them directly (but not ballistic or particle so they can't auto-destroy a ship I want to board).

But overall imho you're right: C-class devices are not equal to Best devices.

[emreyigit1967]

Originally posted by Jack:

* A Class - Vanguard Obliterator Autoprojector (37 dps/p)
- Max Power 2
- Cost 14,100
- Mass 1
* B Class - PBO-175 Auto Helion Beam (38 dps/p, Best in show)
- Max Power 3
- Cost 29,500
- Mass 5
* C Class - Obliterator 250 MeV Auto Alpha Beam, Light Scythe (33 dps/p, not as good as B class)
- Max Power 4
- Cost 30,200
- Mass 7

Theoretically I can have 2 Vanguard Obliterator Autoprojector which will be better than a Obliterator 250 MeV Auto Alpha Beam, cost less and lighter

In theory and practice you can have 6 of the A > 4 of the B > 3 of the C. The best in show is the Vanguard, not the PBO.

[drommels]

The fastest engine is also class A (180).

I am using 6x Vanguard Obliterator Autoprojector, just like I prefer the Class B (1450) shield and 6 Class A engines over anything Class C has to offer. I do use Class C generator... Agile, fast but only 4k cargo ship. Never thought Class C was better... unless you make a huge cargo ship. Then I can imagine needing Class C auto turrets.


ow, old thread. Didn't notice.

[emreyigit1967]

It is an old thread, isn't it. Just noticed. :)

The turrets I use are the Jishaku autocannon, which are B class. 4 of those are usually more than enough if any ship slips past my initial bombardment!

Dunn-71 engines all the way. :) (Again B) The marginally better C classes are way too heavy unless you're hauling an astronomical amount of cargo.

The only C class I use is a jump drive.

So, 12 pips (Vanguard Obliterator) +12 pips (Jishaku Autocannon) + 12 pips (Dunn-71s) = 36, which leaves a few for my grav drive after I install the B-class 104DS reactor.

No missiles! :)

[drommels]

Originally posted by emreyigit1967:

It is an old thread, isn't it. Just noticed. :)

The turrets I use are the Jishako (?) autocannon, which are B class. 4 of those are usually more than enough if any ship slips past my initial bombardment!

The only C class I use is a jump drive.

Range on the Jishako a bit too short for my liking ;)

[emreyigit1967]

Originally posted by drommels:

Range on the Jishako a bit too short for my liking ;)

True! But I'm going off the assumption that the turrets suck in general, and the only enemy I need to worry about is the one on my tail. :)

[Zhorge]

Originally posted by Mightylink:

Stats seem to be all over the place... I noticed a lot of C-Class weapons are cheaper too, it doesn't feel like higher tiers like they should be.

Have you considered you don't understand the why of what they're doing? The tiers are NOT JUST SINGLE-FACTOR REACTOR POWER but also STARSHIP DESIGN LEVEL with a few, minor, variables (mass and cost mostly) thrown in there. In short, it's predominantly a two-factor matrix, not a single variable linear system.

The Atlatl missile systems illustrate this quite well:

Atlatl 270A, Atlatl 270B and Atlatl 270C do, respectively, 47, 68 and 149 damage/missile. The ABC suffix is the reactor tier level required. Anyone can put these on their ship as they require no Starship Design points. They're also (relative to level) cheap, which is important because they're early-game weapons for low-level characters.

The 280A, 280B and 280C do, respectively, 82, 141, 264 damage/missile. You must have starship design of Rank 2 for the 280A and Rank 3 for the 280B & C. They're more expensive tier-to-tier than the 270s. But by then you should have been in the game long-enough to have the credits to afford them.

It's a simple system designed to protect low-level players (low resources, low skills), yet allow players to build the kind of ships they want at higher levels. Not everybody wants to run around in a slow, tank-like ship that fits 9-crew that I use.

In the end, it's a very good system. But it requires paying attention to what they're seeing instead of jumping to conclusions and insinuating the developers are stupid when, in fact, they're rewarding you for investing points into starship design while ensuring you are not forced into a single-path to succeed/function at high levels.

[Zhorge]

Originally posted by emreyigit1967:

In theory and practice you can have 6 of the A > 4 of the B > 3 of the C. The best in show is the Vanguard, not the PBO.

Only if you do the Vanguard quest. Which I have done just twice in my NG+ 7. I've only done Ryjuin once. I did Galbank once. I have never done the Trade Authority. I have only done SysDef once.

I don't always do the Rangers though I do it most of the time for the ship.

[Zhorge]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

Is there something I'm missing, in terms of how weapons are affected by ship class? Or is it simply that you really are better off using a B class particle weapon and an A class EM weapon, even if your ship is C-class, assuming you intend to put full power to weapons?

I understand that range is a little better on the C-class, so is that what's supposed to lure you into upgrading them to a lower dps weapon?

Yes. You've missed the weapons are not just a single-factor reactor tier-power tiered list but a complex matrix where the most important variables are Starship Design skill followed by reactor power.

PBO-175s, which I use, require Starship Design Tier IV. Not everybody wants to grind that up. They have other gaming priorities.

Not everybody wants to repeat the Vanguard quest every NG+ time to get the OP/tier Vanguard weapons.

And Bethesda has designed the game in such a way that people who wish to ignorce starship design won't find themselves completely incapable as the game progresses. You won't have an elite starship, but it'll function well enough to get by.

Those of us who want to build better starships get rewarded for putting our points into Starship design.

It's a win-win. And you can see it if you pay attention to what you're looking at and then thinking about it instead of just making assumptions that C > B > A.

[wtiger27]

The Vanguard Obliterators are the ones I use. You can have 6 of those suckers. Best ship guns in the game in my opinion.

And the Terrormorph UC quest line is the best in the game when it comes to quest chains also.

[schutt]

The values given in the shipbuilder are not the whole truth, the reload time is not listed.

[andersonm]

The best weapon combination is:

one weapon battery that recharge for every shot - this should have 12 energy
one weapon battery that has a "battery"/magazine that starts at 100 and draws down with every shot, and recharges when you don't shoot - this should have 1 energy

This way, you can effectively operate in balance-terms as if you had 24 weapon energy for the price of 13. You get a massive start of battle damage burst, which lets you even the odds immediately.

[Jaggid Edje]

Originally posted by andersonm:

The best weapon combination is:

one weapon battery that recharge for every shot - this should have 12 energy
one weapon battery that has a "battery"/magazine that starts at 100 and draws down with every shot, and recharges when you don't shoot - this should have 1 energy

This way, you can effectively operate in balance-terms as if you had 24 weapon energy for the price of 13. You get a massive start of battle damage burst, which lets you even the odds immediately.

I made this thread a long time ago. Since then I did eventually figure out exactly what you are saying here on my own. It's the setup I use now. Works very well.