Sandstorms kill you while you're in a suit

[Encladeus]

For the sake of not giving away spoilers to those who care about them.

I'm on a mission that requires me to go to some moon. I land on it to take care of business and as soon as I step out of my ship, I get the mandatory hazard warning "SEVERE STANDSTORM". I'm like okay, big deal, this thing is supposed to be air tight to work in a vacuum right? Just 30 seconds in walking through the atmosphere I get severely damaged lungs and my O2 bar is halved. Hazards like radiation, heat, cold, was always fine since you can't really stop those things from creeping into a suit irl. But is Bethesda really telling me that my suit sucking in air from around me and not even capable of filtering dust particles? Gosh I wonder how I even survive in space.

Regardless, I'm still enjoying this game but it's just one of those game design things that really takes you out of it.

[AoD_lexandro]

Originally posted by Encladeus:

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

No what I am doing is relaying a science fiction trope that has been used for decades, I did not invent it. You keep asking me to explain the trope, which I have done multiple times now. If you want to create your own "head-cannon" go right ahead.

I will stick to what authors have written rather than try to make my own stuff up.

This still doesn't address why harvesting particles outside of your suit is more efficient or believable than using that same technology to transform CO2 already inside your suit into O2 while keeping the suit closed so that dust (from my initial point) can't get inside the suit.

Furthermore, I appreciate what science fiction writers and authors have contributed to the genre but with all due respect, why does that specific technology that you mentioned have to automatically be gospel truth about Starfield?

I never said it was gospel. I said stop thinking with 60's tech and use science fiction logic.

Apparently you can't. If you want more of an explanation read a book. I suggest Arthur C Clarke, Greg Bear, Issac Asimov and Larry Niven, James Axler, Jack Yeovil & Patrick Tilly to name a few.

[EzRyder]

Originally posted by Encladeus:

For the sake of not giving away spoilers to those who care about them.

I'm on a mission that requires me to go to some moon. I land on it to take care of business and as soon as I step out of my ship, I get the mandatory hazard warning "SEVERE STANDSTORM". I'm like okay, big deal, this thing is supposed to be air tight to work in a vacuum right? Just 30 seconds in walking through the atmosphere I get severely damaged lungs and my O2 bar is halved. Hazards like radiation, heat, cold, was always fine since you can't really stop those things from creeping into a suit irl. But is Bethesda really telling me that my suit sucking in air from around me and not even capable of filtering dust particles? Gosh I wonder how I even survive in space.

Regardless, I'm still enjoying this game but it's just one of those game design things that really takes you out of it.

first, have you Looked at the 'spacesuits' :D
second how do you know what a sandstorm on Another Planet is capable of? sand and water are 2 of the most powerfull forces on our planet, why not others?

just an fyi, i have an industrail sandblaster i can cut up concrete sidewalks with - i know because ive done it- cuts a sidwalk in half like butter, it will also cut steel beams in half if its not over 3/8 thick (again tested and proven)

edit
but tbh all that is irrelevant, this is an RPG not a simulator - they may well take artistic liberty for Game Mechanics - but i get where some things may seem un-immersive - i just dont agree that is one (the geysers maybe, not because of the effect but just they are everywhere :P)

[Encladeus]

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

I never said it was gospel. I said stop thinking with 60's tech and use science fiction logic.

Apparently you can't. If you want more of an explanation read a book. I suggest Arthur C Clarke, Greg Bear, Issac Asimov and Larry Niven, James Axler, Jack Yeovil & Patrick Tilly to name a few.

Dust getting inside my SUIT that is designed to survive in WORSE conditions and then KILLING me in 30 seconds because my lungs are dead is neither logical nor believable. I am able to suspend my disbelief with everything else in the game and I have never claimed to have any issue with that. We have technologies here on earth the filter out dust in the air to 99.9% efficiency and I'm supposed to believe that they are somehow able to do a worse job than hundreds of years in the future while they have particle beams and lasers?

[Encladeus]

Originally posted by EzRyder:

first, have you Looked at the 'spacesuits' :D
second how do you know what a sandstorm on Another Planet is capable of? sand and water are 2 of the most powerfull forces on our planet, why not others?

just an fyi, i have an industrail sandblaster i can cut up concrete sidewalks with - i know because ive done it- cuts a sidwalk in half like butter, it will also cut steel beams in half if its not over 3/8 thick (again tested and proven)

I know exactly what sandblasting can do. My dad works in the industry and has showed me sandblasting plenty of times. This still doesn't make sense within the game as enemies in vacuum can apparently survive two magazines' worth of bullets through their suit and not instantly suffocate from vacuum while getting sandblasted kills me faster.

[varuflur]

suites stats are important use crafting if you go to cold places adjust suite stats i find a good suit i save it on ship and look at warnings of storms ect

[EzRyder]

Originally posted by Encladeus:

Originally posted by EzRyder:

first, have you Looked at the 'spacesuits' :D
second how do you know what a sandstorm on Another Planet is capable of? sand and water are 2 of the most powerfull forces on our planet, why not others?

just an fyi, i have an industrail sandblaster i can cut up concrete sidewalks with - i know because ive done it- cuts a sidwalk in half like butter, it will also cut steel beams in half if its not over 3/8 thick (again tested and proven)

I know exactly what sandblasting can do. My dad works in the industry and has showed me sandblasting plenty of times. This still doesn't make sense within the game as enemies in vacuum can apparently survive two magazines' worth of bullets through their suit and not instantly suffocate from vacuum while getting sandblasted kills me faster.

kinda like moving the goal posts there mate (detract much?)
your OP is about SANDSTORMS NOT BULLETS - try to stay on point please
im not trying to play ring around the rossy with you here

[AoD_lexandro]

Originally posted by Encladeus:

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

I never said it was gospel. I said stop thinking with 60's tech and use science fiction logic.

Apparently you can't. If you want more of an explanation read a book. I suggest Arthur C Clarke, Greg Bear, Issac Asimov and Larry Niven, James Axler, Jack Yeovil & Patrick Tilly to name a few.

Dust getting inside my SUIT that is designed to survive in WORSE conditions and then KILLING me in 30 seconds because my lungs are dead is neither logical nor believable. I am able to suspend my disbelief with everything else in the game and I have never claimed to have any issue with that. We have technologies here on earth the filter out dust in the air to 99.9% efficiency and I'm supposed to believe that they are somehow able to do a worse job than hundreds of years in the future while they have particle beams and lasers?

The game does not say dust gets in your suit. That is where your logic is falling down. Its creating a hazard your suit cannot cope with and causing its protection to fail. That is what the game is telling you. It never states its inside the suit at any point.

If you want the trope reason, 40ks version is that the internal supply of the pack fails and creates a bad supply that chokes the marines. Or in the case of thermal damage, the suit is overloaded and melts on the exterior while internally the marine is cooked like a chicken because the suits protection failed to maintain internal temperature.

Hell last season of Star Trek Discovery had an entire episode where the suits failed to protect them on an alien planet.

[Encladeus]

Originally posted by EzRyder:

kinda like moving the goal posts there mate
your OP is about SANDSTORMS NOT BULLETS - try to stay on point here please
im not trying top play ring around the rossy with you

I'm not trying to move the goalposts. I was making a comparison of something else within the game's lore and mechanics can have a hard time damaging a human body through a space suit while a different thing can so as to support my initial point.

[EzRyder]

Originally posted by Encladeus:

Originally posted by EzRyder:

kinda like moving the goal posts there mate
your OP is about SANDSTORMS NOT BULLETS - try to stay on point here please
im not trying top play ring around the rossy with you

I'm not trying to move the goalposts. I was making a comparison of something else within the game's lore and mechanics can have a hard time damaging a human body through a space suit while a different thing can so as to support my initial point.

then i will point uyou to the last part of my post - the part you didnt quote (likely added after so im not saying you left it out or anything, just you apparently didnt read it)
cheers and remember to just have fun, im out

"edit
but tbh all that is irrelevant, this is an RPG not a Simulator - they may well take artistic liberty for Game Mechanics - but i get where some things may seem un-immersive - i just dont agree that is one (the geysers maybe, not because of the effect but just they are everywhere :P)

[Encladeus]

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

The game does not say dust gets in your suit. That is where your logic is falling down. Its creating a hazard your suit cannot cope with and causing its protection to fail. That is what the game is telling you. It never states its inside the suit at any point.

If you want the trope reason, 40ks version is that the internal supply of the pack fails and creates a bad supply that chokes the marines. Or in the case of thermal damage, the suit is overloaded and melts on the exterior while internally the marine is cooked like a chicken because the suits protection failed to maintain internal temperature.

If we're gonna use your logic of following "what the game says", then the game doesn't say that it takes particles from around you to create O2 for you to breath. And if it's not the dust that gives me the DAMAGED LUNGS debuff, (assuming that dust was getting into the suit) then what is damaging my lungs? If you're claiming that it's just damage in general that creates a bad supply that chokes the person inside that's affecting my suit then solar damage should give me the damaged lungs debuff as well then. Is the dust intelligently just attacking my O2 supply which is why I'm choking? Is solar radiation intelligently avoiding my O2 supply then which is why I don't get lung damage and radiation damage instead?

[AoD_lexandro]

Originally posted by Encladeus:

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

The game does not say dust gets in your suit. That is where your logic is falling down. Its creating a hazard your suit cannot cope with and causing its protection to fail. That is what the game is telling you. It never states its inside the suit at any point.

If you want the trope reason, 40ks version is that the internal supply of the pack fails and creates a bad supply that chokes the marines. Or in the case of thermal damage, the suit is overloaded and melts on the exterior while internally the marine is cooked like a chicken because the suits protection failed to maintain internal temperature.

If we're gonna use your logic of following "what the game says", then the game doesn't say that it takes particles from around you to create O2 for you to breath. And if it's not the dust that gives me the DAMAGED LUNGS debuff, (assuming that dust was getting into the suit) then what is damaging my lungs? If you're claiming that it's just damage in general that creates a bad supply that chokes the person inside that's affecting my suit then solar damage should give me the damaged lungs debuff as well then. Is the dust intelligently just attacking my O2 supply which is why I'm choking? Is solar radiation intelligently avoiding my O2 supply then which is why I don't get lung damage and radiation damage instead?

Again you want the trope? The supply gets compromised and the pack cant filter properly causing unwanted side effects. 40k, marines get gassed by the pack failing to scrub properly and the marine not switching to a closed supply (lore fact - 40k marines have a tongue switch and internal display system in the helmet with a nostrils logo used to designate toxic environments). So the pack generates faulty air which gasses the marine inside the suit. Specific toxins cause specific effects on the suits. So some marines also have an extra lung to breath toxic fumes.

[Encladeus]

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

Again you want the trope? The supply gets compromised and the pack cant filter properly causing unwanted side effects. 40k, marines get gassed by the pack failing to scrub properly and the marine not switching to a closed supply (lore fact - 40k marines have a tongue switch and internal display system in the helmet with a nostrils logo used to designate toxic environments). So the pack generates faulty air which gasses the marine inside the suit. Specific toxins cause specific effects on the suits. So some marines also have an extra lung to breath toxic fumes.

This assumes that the suit cannot cope with the dust because it's trying to use outside to create a hospitable atmosphere and that the extreme environment I find myself in is causing it to fail. The problem is that this would mean the suit is no longer a closed system. You can't have both. Again bringing up the fact that the space suits in Starfield can work fine in a vacuum makes this explanation inconsistent. The pack would surely fail if it tried to, in your words not mine, "filter" the vacuum of space.

[Encladeus]

Originally posted by EzRyder:

Originally posted by Encladeus:

I'm not trying to move the goalposts. I was making a comparison of something else within the game's lore and mechanics can have a hard time damaging a human body through a space suit while a different thing can so as to support my initial point.

then i will point uyou to the last part of my post - the part you didnt quote (likely added after so im not saying you left it out or anything, just you apparently didnt read it)
cheers and remember to just have fun, im out

"edit
but tbh all that is irrelevant, this is an RPG not a Simulator - they may well take artistic liberty for Game Mechanics - but i get where some things may seem un-immersive - i just dont agree that is one (the geysers maybe, not because of the effect but just they are everywhere :P)

Sorry I forgot to mention that the game only gives you a Lung Damage debuff when you lose protection in a sandstorm (which also causes a persistent cough debuff if not treated). The game heavily implies, if not outright says, that the damage done to you is of a respiratory nature. However if we're to follow that the suit is weak to the point where getting sandblasted is damaging it (sci-fi material science be damned I guess) your character should be suffering physical damage in conjunction with respiratory damage and not exclusively the latter.

With that in mind I feel like it's safe to say the suit remains sealed and that Bethesda is just inconsistent with what kind of damage(s) their space suits can and cannot withstand.

[AoD_lexandro]

Originally posted by Encladeus:

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

Again you want the trope? The supply gets compromised and the pack cant filter properly causing unwanted side effects. 40k, marines get gassed by the pack failing to scrub properly and the marine not switching to a closed supply (lore fact - 40k marines have a tongue switch and internal display system in the helmet with a nostrils logo used to designate toxic environments). So the pack generates faulty air which gasses the marine inside the suit. Specific toxins cause specific effects on the suits. So some marines also have an extra lung to breath toxic fumes.

This assumes that the suit cannot cope with the dust because it's trying to use outside to create a hospitable atmosphere and that the extreme environment I find myself in is causing it to fail. The problem is that this would mean the suit is no longer a closed system. You can't have both. Again bringing up the fact that the space suits in Starfield can work fine in a vacuum makes this explanation inconsistent. The pack would surely fail if it tried to, in your words not mine, "filter" the vacuum of space.

Star Trek Discovery had a full episode where they were exposed to a toxin on a planet that "bypassed the filters". These are the same suits they wear in space.

At some point you have to just "accept" the game logic and get on with it.

[EzRyder]

i think your trying to play this like it was SC or something
your Way over thinking it and in the atmosphere we have in this forum you should expect to be debated for it - your coming Real close to acting like the any other trolls we have seen by nitpicking some nonsense, ig get this may bug you - but Where does this RPG Game say its 100% REALISTIC, do you have a link? or is that just Your Own exaggerated expectation?

this is listed as an RPG, its set in Space and in the Future so its Sci-Fi which means they Will take liberty on the Science (thats where the FICTION part of that name comes in)

you have made your point, you dont like this mechanic, continuing to push Your Opinion at this point is just arguing for the sake of arguing - which i guess you have the right to do but ... i dont think its going to garner you the responses you seem to be after