Question about armor penetration.

[Langkard]

I maxed out the armor penetration perk. I've read that a weapon with the shattering effect on it stacks the armor penetration on top of any workbench mods like high power and armor-piercing, increasing the weapon damage.

My question is does the armor penetration perk also stack with those, so that having all is best?

[chris23162]

AoD_lexandro a écrit :

chris23162 a écrit :

High power stacks as it's just a damage increase, shattering stacks as it's a different modifier but armour piercing rounds are the same as the skill at tier 3 so they do nothing. Armour piercing rounds are just the tier 3 skill for the weapon in question, however having the skill at tier 3 yourself means you can ditch the armour piercing rounds for something that adds more damage or the like so it's not a totally wasted skill on weapons that have an armour piercing round option.

Not as far as I am aware. Skills are separate from item perks in the mathematics. Skills have always stacked on top of items in other Bethesda games.

Took me 5 minutes to find a vid of someone doing the testing I did myself and saying the same as I am as he gets the same results. The vid is time stamped skip to 23:19 for where he explains that armour pen rounds are the exact same as the skill and can be swapped out as they do nothing if you have the skill already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSFvp7vHL3s

[Langkard]

EzRyder a écrit :

as i said i think Yes they would stack - but i fear your placing too much emphasis on the 'word' penetrate-
for guns this just adds to damage, for armor im guessing it 'reduces enemy armor effect' so it amounts to the same i guess
^ all just useless theory
afaik there is no specific 'penetration stat' thats just the description imo

This makes sense to me. I just wish we had some concrete info. I'm sure it will come out in time, especially after Creation Kit.

[AoD_lexandro]

chris23162 a écrit :

AoD_lexandro a écrit :

Not as far as I am aware. Skills are separate from item perks in the mathematics. Skills have always stacked on top of items in other Bethesda games.

Took me 5 minutes to find a vid of someone doing the testing I did myself and saying the same as I am as he gets the same results. The vid is time stamped skip to 23:19 for where he explains that armour pen rounds are the exact same as the skill and can be swapped out as they do nothing if you have the skill already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSFvp7vHL3s

Sorry I am not going to trust the word of someone else in a video. Particularly as I know the UI is currently broken and does not show stats properly and fails to update correctly when new data is added.

[chris23162]

AoD_lexandro a écrit :

chris23162 a écrit :

Took me 5 minutes to find a vid of someone doing the testing I did myself and saying the same as I am as he gets the same results. The vid is time stamped skip to 23:19 for where he explains that armour pen rounds are the exact same as the skill and can be swapped out as they do nothing if you have the skill already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSFvp7vHL3s

Sorry I am not going to trust the word of someone else in a video. Particularly as I know the UI is currently broken and does not show stats properly and fails to update correctly when new data is added.

No worries it's easy to test if you have the skill and a gun to mod with the rounds as you can see there is no damage increase from the addition of the rounds to the skill. I used two identical guns, both advanced both in the stacked state in my inventory so I knew they were exactly the same then I modded one with the armour pen rounds and went testing. Shooting, loading, swapping, shooting, loading and the ammo just gives the weapon the same effect as amour pen 3 and does not stack with the skill.

[AoD_lexandro]

chris23162 a écrit :

AoD_lexandro a écrit :

Sorry I am not going to trust the word of someone else in a video. Particularly as I know the UI is currently broken and does not show stats properly and fails to update correctly when new data is added.

No worries it's easy to test if you have the skill and a gun to mod with the rounds as you can see there is no damage increase from the addition of the rounds to the skill. I used two identical guns, both advanced both in the stacked state in my inventory so I knew they were exactly the same then I modded one with the armour pen rounds and went testing. Shooting, loading, swapping, shooting, loading and the ammo just gives the weapon the same effect as amour pen 3 and does not stack with the skill.

Dont have weapon add-on perks atm so cant personally test. But I will take your word on it for now. However I would like to point out this could well just be a bug in that the two are accidentally linked when they should be individual bonuses.

[Doombringer]

Say an enemy has 400 armor = 40% damage reduction.
You have Armor Penetration 3 skill (50%)
Shattering legendary ability weapon (30%) (it also is 1.15x damage which it doesn't say in description)
Armor Piercing ammo mod (25%)
They multiply each other (not additive), so:
Armor (400) * (1-50%) * (1-30%) * (1-25%) =
400 * 0.5 * 0.7 * 0.75 = 105 armor remains = 10.5% damage reduction
So you went from doing (1-40%=) 60% damage to doing (1-10.5%=) 89.5% damage.

(Yes, I have tested this in game.)
(You can getav+modav damageresist, amod stuff on weapons, etc. if you want to test yourself - will disable achievements though.)

[Langkard]

Doombringer a écrit :

Say an enemy has 400 armor = 40% damage reduction.
You have Armor Penetration 3 skill (50%)
Shattering legendary ability weapon (30%) (it also is 1.15x damage which it doesn't say in description)
Armor Piercing ammo mod (25%)
They multiply each other (not additive), so:
Armor (400) * (1-50%) * (1-30%) * (1-25%) =
400 * 0.5 * 0.7 * 0.75 = 105 armor remains = 10.5% damage reduction
So you went from doing (1-40%=) 60% damage to doing (1-10.5%=) 89.5% damage.

(Yes, I have tested this in game.)
(You can getav+modav damageresist, amod stuff on weapons, etc. if you want to test yourself - will disable achievements though.)

Thanks! Answers my questions.

Shattering doing 1.15x damage was what threw me off whenever I tried to figure it out. Since this additional damage isn't detailed, I couldn't account for it. I would add shattering to a weapon with armor piercing rounds and get numbers that didn't make sense.

Awesome work. Thanks, again!