Question about armor penetration.

[Langkard]

I maxed out the armor penetration perk. I've read that a weapon with the shattering effect on it stacks the armor penetration on top of any workbench mods like high power and armor-piercing, increasing the weapon damage.

My question is does the armor penetration perk also stack with those, so that having all is best?

[fauxpas]

Excellent question.

[Goof]

yeah, that is an excellent question. I havent messed much with weapon mods yet

[Agent Chieftain]

I think I heard that the higher AP value overwrites all others. Same with the AP ammo mod. Once you install that, the AP bonus from the skill is obsolete.

Also worth noting is that Armor Penetration only affects ballistic damage. So energy weapons don't benefit from it.

[Langkard]

Good point about energy weapons. I only use ballistic weapons right now since I trained in that and rifles and AP; but that I'll have more options with more NG+ levels, as I run out of other stuff to train and work on energy and particle beam and probably even heavy weapons.

I did see someone on Reddit say that they tested adding the Shattering effect on to a weapon with the armor-piercing ammo modification and it increased the damage. I haven't seen any mention of whether either or both also stack with the high power modification (which is an internal mod, I think, and not an ammo/magazine mod).

I'm sure we will find out eventually. It's somewhat frustrating to not have all of the information right now, though.

[jssomerset]

Just posting so I will be notified if someone answers this

[EzRyder]

Originally posted by Langkard:

I maxed out the armor penetration perk. I've read that a weapon with the shattering effect on it stacks the armor penetration on top of any workbench mods like high power and armor-piercing, increasing the weapon damage.

My question is does the armor penetration perk also stack with those, so that having all is best?

first is this a Skill or a Perk? either is probably going to be independent of anything, so if it gives increased weapon damage then i think it would stack
i dont see it in the armor workbench
the mods we can add for armor wont 'increase' a weapons damage, they do have some damage resistance for them but nothing to change or stack with gun mods as far as i can see, and i have both guns and armor unlocked and maxed
edit:
"armor penetration' sounds more like a resistance than anything with damage tbh

[Close One!]

Originally posted by EzRyder:

Originally posted by Langkard:

I maxed out the armor penetration perk. I've read that a weapon with the shattering effect on it stacks the armor penetration on top of any workbench mods like high power and armor-piercing, increasing the weapon damage.

My question is does the armor penetration perk also stack with those, so that having all is best?

first is this a Skill or a Perk? either is probably going to be independent of anything, so if it gives increased weapon damage then i think it would stack
i dont see it in the armor workbench
the mods we can add for armor wont 'increase' a weapons damage, they do have some damage resistance for them but nothing to change or stack with gun mods as far as i can see, and i have both guns and armor unlocked and maxed
edit:
"armor penetration' sounds more like a resistance than anything with damage tbh

you ok mate? he said everything you needed to know and somehow you managed to not read it lol

[AoD_lexandro]

Afaik yes its stacks. Its a separate bonus added on top of "baseline" effects. So if you have the same "baseline" effect its going to stack it. IE armor pen rounds & armor pen skill stack.

[chris23162]

Originally posted by Langkard:

I maxed out the armor penetration perk. I've read that a weapon with the shattering effect on it stacks the armor penetration on top of any workbench mods like high power and armor-piercing, increasing the weapon damage.

My question is does the armor penetration perk also stack with those, so that having all is best?

High power stacks as it's just a damage increase, shattering stacks as it's a different modifier but armour piercing rounds are the same as the skill at tier 3 so they do nothing. Armour piercing rounds are just the tier 3 skill for the weapon in question, however having the skill at tier 3 yourself means you can ditch the armour piercing rounds for something that adds more damage or the like so it's not a totally wasted skill on weapons that have an armour piercing round option.

[chris23162]

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

Afaik yes its stacks. Its a separate bonus added on top of "baseline" effects. So if you have the same "baseline" effect its going to stack it. IE armor pen rounds & armor pen skill stack.

They do not stack you can test this yourself armour pen rounds just confer the armour pen tier 3 skill on the weapon and don't stack together with the skill itself, but having it as a skill lets you swap the now superfluous armour pen rounds for something else.

[AoD_lexandro]

Originally posted by chris23162:

Originally posted by Langkard:

I maxed out the armor penetration perk. I've read that a weapon with the shattering effect on it stacks the armor penetration on top of any workbench mods like high power and armor-piercing, increasing the weapon damage.

My question is does the armor penetration perk also stack with those, so that having all is best?

High power stacks as it's just a damage increase, shattering stacks as it's a different modifier but armour piercing rounds are the same as the skill at tier 3 so they do nothing. Armour piercing rounds are just the tier 3 skill for the weapon in question, however having the skill at tier 3 yourself means you can ditch the armour piercing rounds for something that adds more damage or the like so it's not a totally wasted skill on weapons that have an armour piercing round option.

Not as far as I am aware. Skills are separate from item perks in the mathematics. Skills have always stacked on top of items in other Bethesda games.

[Langkard]

Originally posted by EzRyder:

Originally posted by Langkard:

I maxed out the armor penetration perk. I've read that a weapon with the shattering effect on it stacks the armor penetration on top of any workbench mods like high power and armor-piercing, increasing the weapon damage.

My question is does the armor penetration perk also stack with those, so that having all is best?

first is this a Skill or a Perk? either is probably going to be independent of anything, so if it gives increased weapon damage then i think it would stack
i dont see it in the armor workbench
the mods we can add for armor wont 'increase' a weapons damage, they do have some damage resistance for them but nothing to change or stack with gun mods as far as i can see, and i have both guns and armor unlocked and maxed
edit:
"armor penetration' sounds more like a resistance than anything with damage tbh

Perks and skills are the same thing. You get 1 point to train in them per level, and 3 when you start out with your background choices.

Armor penetration is a perk which increases your penetration of enemy armor with weapons. It's at the bottom level of the Combat perks. It has 4 tiers like all of the other perks/skills.
1st point in it - Attacks ignore 15% of a target's armor
2nd point in it - Attacks ignore 30% of a target's armor
3rd point in it - Attacks ignore 50% of a target's armor
4th point in it - Enemy armor is decreased by 25% for 6 seconds

Armor penetration is also something that a workbench modification to weapons can do.

Armor-penetrating rounds are a mod to the magazine/battery slot on a weapon. (Battery is the magazine equivalent for energy weapons, i.e. lasers and particle beams, etc.). So this can be added to all types of weapons except melee things like daggers.

The description for the armor-penetrating modification is: "More powerful casing can penetrate even the sturdiest armors."

Does that mean the round penetrates all armor? If so, then what is the use of the armor penetration perk? Just mod the weapon and it penetrates all armor? No one knows.

Another available weapon workbench mod is depleted uranium rounds. Has the same description as the first one. I don't know if this can be added to energy weapons.

In addition to the perk for armor penetration and the weapon modification for armor penetration, there is an effect which can appear on better than standard weapons (blue, purple and gold tiers) which is called shattering. It is described as "Shattering: Break through even the strongest armor."

So, if armor penetrating rounds break through even the strongest armor, then what is the point of the armor penetration perk? The same question can asked about the shattering effect on weapons.

And, as my initial post stated, do they stack? Does having more than one of the above mean damage is increased since the armor has already been penetrated? Is it additive? How is it figured? No one knows. There was one post on reddit which stated that adding shattering to a weapon which already had armor-piercing rounds increased the damage.

Edit: one thing I should note about the above. In the description for the armor-penetration weapon workbench mods, both use "can" instead of "will" which in itself implies a percentage chance. Shattering doesn't use that wording, so is it a 100% chance, effectively ignoring all armor on all enemies? But again, no one really knows.

[chris23162]

Originally posted by Agent Chieftain:

I think I heard that the higher AP value overwrites all others. Same with the AP ammo mod. Once you install that, the AP bonus from the skill is obsolete.

Also worth noting is that Armor Penetration only affects ballistic damage. So energy weapons don't benefit from it.

True the skill does not affect energy weapons but most enemies have like half the resist of ballistic for energy so you don't need it anyway, ballistic weapons are the most gimped at the start and have the most to gain through skills but the particle rifle just beats everything anyway so why bother with the ballistic skills.

[EzRyder]

as i said i think Yes they would stack - but i fear your placing too much emphasis on the 'word' penetrate-
for guns this just adds to damage, for armor im guessing it 'reduces enemy armor effect' so it amounts to the same i guess
^ all just useless theory
afaik there is no specific 'penetration stat' thats just the description imo

[AoD_lexandro]

Originally posted by chris23162:

Originally posted by Agent Chieftain:

I think I heard that the higher AP value overwrites all others. Same with the AP ammo mod. Once you install that, the AP bonus from the skill is obsolete.

Also worth noting is that Armor Penetration only affects ballistic damage. So energy weapons don't benefit from it.

True the skill does not affect energy weapons but most enemies have like half the resist of ballistic for energy so you don't need it anyway, ballistic weapons are the most gimped at the start and have the most to gain through skills but the particle rifle just beats everything anyway so why bother with the ballistic skills.

Aesthetics and comfort. For instance I prefer to use the XM Handgun with no sights. Its how I have rolled in countless other games over the years with basic iron sights that I know.

I also prefer the look of the Beowulf, as the model detailing is excellent as is the mechanisms for the animations.