How bad Starfield is has me very worried for the next Elder Scrolls

[CzUSMC]

Starfield is by far the worst game Bethesda has ever made...and they were so confident about it... From the horrid story taking place after all the exciting stuff was over (Colony war) to the bland characters who dont allow you freedom to play how you want to be. Has me very worried if these same people are in charge of making the next Elder Scrolls its going to be a huge FLOP.... Maybe they should start showing elder scrolls development so people can stop their mistakes before they make them.

[tkwoods]

Originally posted by Danny_usmc:

Originally posted by emreyigit1967:

It's a big world out there; what Bethesda may lose by not appealing to every American it will more than recoup elsewhere. And by the Time ESVI comes out, the US might not even be the biggest market.

You people are looking way too deep into this... This is not about politics, demographics and I dont get why people are even relating the two... The game just sucks donkey balls... Mainly because I have Main plot characters freaking out if i shoot the wrong person... Its a video game why can't I shoot who I want to without being punished by main plot characters. I dont even have freedom of choice to go against where the plot drives. The whole game forces you to be a good dog and play it the way they want you to be no exceptions. The picked the timeline for the story after the colony war... A major time in history that could of brought numerous plots converging... They just throw that in the trash and go oh youre a "Explorer" after everything is over... Nothing interesting going on anymore... but you cant Explore the way you want to. Explore and behave how we expect you to be or be punished.

Maybe choose a different companion??? Go it Solo??? Getting through some of the missions without killing is hard and a nice departure from the older games.

[Krudtugle]

Originally posted by emreyigit1967:

That's fair, that's their choice, but no-one who likes Bethesda games is going to avoid the next ES game because some children on Steam decided they wanted sparkly characters and sex.

That's not the root of the problem. Their "RPGs" have been declining with each iteration. Skyrim, while it was a decent adventure game with RPG elements, was not really an RPG in the traditional sense. Fallout 4 took away meaningful dialogue choices. Every choice leads to the same outcome. After that we got two online games nobody asked for, and now with Starfield we have reached rock bottom.

[CurrySpirals]

A video game is the last thing in the world you need to worry about.

[LordKuraba]

I'm not worried I'm actually optimistic. To me Starfield feels more like Morrowind and that's just fine for me because that's my favorite game of all time. But I guess it just depends on what you want out of a RPG. Some people prefer games with a more guided experience where the game unfolds the story for you (which is fine I like those games too) and some people like to use the game as a backdrop for whatever story the make up themselves.

That's why I still play BGS games long after release. It isn't for the mods, it's because every character I create in a game like Skyrim or Oblivion is a completely different character and Starfield will be the same.

[peppergomez]

Todd howard would need to leave the company in order For it to meaningfully change

[drommels]

Originally posted by emreyigit1967:

Originally posted by tkwoods:

The main demographic for gamers is 34, male, with kids and a house. That is the target audience. The closer to the fringes people get the less they will like the game.

It's a big world out there; what Bethesda may lose by not appealing to every American it will more than recoup elsewhere. And by the Time ESVI comes out, the US might not even be the biggest market.

They are already not the biggest market. English is the most used language (38,80%) and Simplified Chinese second (18.8%) on Steam.

But 19% of Steam traffic comes from China, followed by 16.8% from the US. This coincides with the large percentage of Chinese gamers among the number of gamers worldwide.


https://financesonline.com/steam-statistics/

[Jᴧgᴧ]

Originally posted by drommels:

But 19% of Steam traffic comes from China, followed by 16.8% from the US. This coincides with the large percentage of Chinese gamers among the number of gamers worldwide.

Bethesda titles probably aren't among the top selling titles on China's Steam storefront. Asian style games most likely. Plus - any title sold on the Chinese storefront has to be approved by Beijing first.

Europe, the Americas (Canada, North, South), India.. all probably contribute 50% or more to average "classic RPG" game sales on Steam.

Funny bit of info: Steam didn't even launch a storefront in China until 2021. While they no doubt have a heavy presence on Steam, I still suspect it's mostly Asian style games that are predominately sold.

So yeah - Bethesda still has to worry about who it appeals to, given that it is producing non-JRPGs (the only other type I can think of at the moment).

[drommels]

Originally posted by Jᴧgᴧ:

Originally posted by drommels:

But 19% of Steam traffic comes from China, followed by 16.8% from the US. This coincides with the large percentage of Chinese gamers among the number of gamers worldwide.

Bethesda titles probably aren't among the top selling titles on China's Steam storefront. Asian style games most likely. Plus - any title sold on the Chinese storefront has to be approved by Beijing first.

Europe, the Americas (Canada, North, South), India.. all probably contribute 50% or more to average "classic RPG" game sales on Steam.

Funny bit of info: Steam didn't even launch a storefront in China until 2021. While they no doubt have a heavy presence on Steam, I still suspect it's mostly Asian style games that are predominately sold.

So yeah - Bethesda still has to worry about who it appeals to, given that it is producing non-JRPGs (the only other type I can think of at the moment).

Chinese players can buy games on the international Steam client just fine, but not leave or view comments, reviews etc.

The Chinese Steam client is indeed very limited after the Chinese 'crackdown' on games since 2018, and still ongoing. All need a government license certifying that they abide by a long list of rules and certifications. As a result, about 14,000 small studios and gaming-related firms in China went out of business. Think the lastest measure China took was, that you're only allowed to play for 2 hours a day(?) under a certain age.

Anyway, https://store.steamchina.com/ Doesn't look like much :)
https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3161717/china-gaming-crackdown-freeze-new-video-game-licences-extends-2022

edit: huh, does explain why 'wallpaper engine' & 'cs:go' does so well.


Also. I think personally that TESVI will be fine and (eventually) great. Afaik, TESVI went out of pre-production in August so I am going to assume the main script is already done.

[Vezner]

Originally posted by Danny_usmc:

Starfield is by far the worst game Bethesda has ever made...and they were so confident about it... From the horrid story taking place after all the exciting stuff was over (Colony war) to the bland characters who dont allow you freedom to play how you want to be. Has me very worried if these same people are in charge of making the next Elder Scrolls its going to be a huge FLOP.... Maybe they should start showing elder scrolls development so people can stop their mistakes before they make them.

ES6 will be the first ES game since Morrowind that I won't preorder. If it's woke and total crap like Starfield, I won't buy it. I fear that Bethesda is lost forever.

[Hyokkuda]

You should not worry. The major problem Starfield has is linked to procedural generation alone. What you see in this game is applied in a handful of other games with similar features. Every game, and I mean EVERY GAME, with a large use of procedural generation in them will feel lazy and repetitive, no exceptionǃ There is a way to fix that, but procedural generation requires tons of rules and testing to ensure that everything works as intended without repetitiveness. Heck, I worked on a procedural generation project during a computer class at school in 2003, and I made one of the best projects that some professional game developers have seen (at the time) during a game expo we visited.

It can be done well when procedural generation follows strict and specific rules. And my guess is Bethesda never played with that feature before, and they thought it would be easy. But it's not.

In my project, I have to admit that I had about 7 rules, but for a game of that scale, I guess roughing around 400 rules would be necessary to fix most of what we see. But to apply rules, we also need new assets. From my understanding, some data miners discovered that the game only has 140 POI (Points Of Interest) for 1000 planets. That isn't good if you think about how many "tiles" are on one planet alone. You could visit 5 planets and pretty much know them all, with the exception of unique ones with special traits that are only available on specific planets in named systems.

The next Elder Scrolls VI game will not fail because they will not rely on procedural generation again for a game about the same size as their previous games. - Unless they decide to go the lazy route and resume with this feature in the hopes of covering for lack of staff or something, which would be terrible, by the way...

If they are smart, they will develop the next game like they did with Skyrim, Fallout 3, 4, New Vegas, and so on. Nothing beats hand-crafted materials. At least not yet. Maybe in 50 more years.

[realgrumpy]

I will never pre-order another Bethesda game after this turd.

[oldschooldiablo]

Originally posted by Mountain Man:

Most likely the next Elder Scrolls is going to be a critical and financial success just like Starfield.

Financial success doesn't mean the game is any good. I enjoyed my play through.

The game it's self isn't a success which isn't the same as financial success.

Blizzard even admitted d3 as game was a failed but was a success financially.

I highly dought BGS or hell even Todd has the balls to say that.

[Vezner]

Originally posted by oldschooldiablo:

Originally posted by Mountain Man:

Most likely the next Elder Scrolls is going to be a critical and financial success just like Starfield.

Financial success doesn't mean the game is any good. I enjoyed my play through.

The game it's self isn't a success which isn't the same as financial success.

Blizzard even admitted d3 as game was a failed but was a success financially.

I highly dought BGS or hell even Todd has the balls to say that.

What some people don't get is even if a game or movie is "financially successful", if the Dev's reputation goes down because of it being a disappointment or falsely marketed, their next release will be less successful, and the one after that even less successful. Until the next thing you know you're Disney and losing nearly a billion dollars in a year and looking at having to do a course correction or sell off IPs and face bankruptcy.

[trevorbergershank]

Given that Starfield is good and is in absolutely no way, shape or form the worst game Bethesda has ever made, I'm very excited about Elder Scrolls 6.

[Ser_Squire]

Originally posted by Danny_usmc:

Starfield is by far the worst game Bethesda has ever made.

I believe its one of their best, if not their greatest game yet. This could mean that you might just not like TESVI and I might love it (or the opposite could happen). There are so many great games currently available that you really shouldn't worry too much about it. Play the games you enjoy and ignore the rest.