The Unity

[RiseM]

Decided to put my thoughts on a separate thread here. Alot of spoilers, so beware :)

An interesting fact - in the first universe you just a normal human, who saw visions from the artifacts. So was Barrett and at least one more guy that sold the item to the Collector. We don’t know if being able to see the vision is for limited amount of people, like a mark to become Starborn. Or just a tip and Unity can be achieved but anyone, since the Unity itself said that everyone is welcome, I believe it to be the second. So… here we go:

Every person on board of the ship that enters the Unity de facto enters their own version of Unity. And considering you can take almost random people with you… the amount of Starborn getting at least +9 each universe, also considering there is no way to re-enter the Unity from “used” universe, the amount of Starborn killed in each universe is at least 30-50. So not like very exclusive race.

Cora Coe, probably found a way to re-enter Unity, but since the Universe that had her dad killed was abandoned by protagonist there is the question - how was that possible?

According to lore each of your main companion can be Emissary, but for each Emissary with his own team of people entered Unity, there is also a dead version of protagonist. So… still getting a raising number of Starborn after each universe jump, but heavily decreasing after each run of the protagonist.

There are also the infinite amount of Starborn in Multiverse, but still the math says they should be close to extinction, if there is no way to coordinate universes jumps. So probably Hunter or the Emissary knows more.

Also there is a power to call for a copy of yourself from different universe, so… it is possible to permanently call a Starborn?

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by juskom95:

Originally posted by Cheallaigh:

if there infinite multiverses, then there is infinite possibilities for starborn... except where hunter(mainly) or em, interferes to prevent you becoming one by either stopping or killing you and the rest.

I would like to see one where the protagonist is the Hunter or emissary.

Becoming the Hunter takes time that is implied the Spacefarer hasn't had time to become yet, but the 'evil you' definitely is on her way to becoming the Hunter, just without the necessary jadedness to develop the emotional distance.

[Ssjbryando]

Their Multiverse theory is written a bit sloppy (Iirc) like.

1. When you go through the final missions for e.g. going back to Lin/Hellen to get the artifact path, why do I not see another version of me?
2. when you NG+ you don't kill yourself first
3. The lab moment with Rafael and the doctor/where you morph to the lab that burned down. Saving Rafael shouldn't actually matter at all, because it's a different universe. The effects wouldn't even be noticeable in the current universe the player is in.
4. Mixup theories between time-travel and parallel universes/different x universes.

Could be a bit off here or missed something, but thats what it felt like

[Uthur]

My personal theory is that Unity acts like a respawn point for Starborn as it saves the information about the Starborn each time they enter Unity (the Unity specifically mentions that entering it requires you to "give up part of yourself") so when a Starborn turns to space dust they are reincarnated by the Unity and thrown into a random universe.

What I am more interested by is the fact that when entering the Unity it does not just force you into a different universe, it also throws you back in time to when you first discovered the first artifact. This, combined with how that NASA scientist Victor meant a version of himself that has seen the future (though my personal head cannon was that that Starborn wasn't another Victor but was the Unity itself), makes me thinks that the Unity's main purpose is to simply add more people to it, thereby unifying the multiverse.

As for how the Unity is messing with time, since gravity can mess with time and the artifacts cause gravitational anomalies that resulted in the creation of grav-drives, I think it is safe to assume that the Unity is creating copies of Starborns and throwing them into various universes at the time right before the Ancillary was created specifically to ensure that more people enter the Unity, thus fulfilling its purpose.

[Uthur]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Something to consider is that Beth likes using the same title for different (but similar) entities. For instance Dragonborn, you have "Dragonborn" like the protagonist of TES(5) but the Imperial line are also considered to be "Dragonborn".

FYI the reason that the imperial family in Tamrial is considered "Dragonborn" is that being Dragonborn is hereditary and the imperial family traces its bloodline back to Tiber Septim (aka Talos) who was a Dragonborn. Thus the imperial family are Dragonborns even though none of them have learned any shouts nor slain any dragons (that I know of). At least, that's how it was until the Septim bloodline was wiped out in Oblivion.

Like I get what you are trying to say, but some titles can be applied to multiple people if those people fulfill the title's requirements.

[RiseM]

Originally posted by Cheallaigh:

Originally posted by juskom95:

I would like to see one where the protagonist is the Hunter or emissary.

agreed, maybe in the DLC?

The hunter and the emissary are fixed personalities in my opinion, emissary is one of four your companions from another universe, where the protagonist died. Basically emissary is lawful good, well, hunter is neutral evil. Both are not representing all the possibilities, so to be all other variance is on player character. I believe there will be a player star born faction sooner or later. Most likely with mods..

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by Uthur:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Something to consider is that Beth likes using the same title for different (but similar) entities. For instance Dragonborn, you have "Dragonborn" like the protagonist of TES(5) but the Imperial line are also considered to be "Dragonborn".

FYI the reason that the imperial family in Tamrial is considered "Dragonborn" is that being Dragonborn is hereditary and the imperial family traces its bloodline back to Tiber Septim (aka Talos) who was a Dragonborn. Thus the imperial family are Dragonborns even though none of them have learned any shouts nor slain any dragons (that I know of). At least, that's how it was until the Septim bloodline was wiped out in Oblivion.

Like I get what you are trying to say, but some titles can be applied to multiple people if those people fulfill the title's requirements.

Sure, but the "Last Dragonborn" is a Dragonborn because they were chosen by Big A and given the soul of a dragon (which is probably the same thing that happened to Tiber) ... this is why she is the only person capable of permanently killing dragons.

The Imperial line inherent some of the power of thier ancestor, but unless I missed it they don't have the soul of a dragon instead of a mortal, so even if they killed a dragon they wouldn't be able to eat its soul.

[juskom95]

Originally posted by RiseM:

Originally posted by Cheallaigh:

agreed, maybe in the DLC?

The hunter and the emissary are fixed personalities in my opinion, emissary is one of four your companions from another universe, where the protagonist died. Basically emissary is lawful good, well, hunter is neutral evil. Both are not representing all the possibilities, so to be all other variance is on player character. I believe there will be a player star born faction sooner or later. Most likely with mods..

I thought it would be funny to talk to yourself and/or have an argument.

I also thought it would be fun just to be the evil person and lay waste to Constellation, New Atlantis and anyone who gets in your way.

[juskom95]

Originally posted by Ssjbryando:

Their Multiverse theory is written a bit sloppy (Iirc) like.

1. When you go through the final missions for e.g. going back to Lin/Hellen to get the artifact path, why do I not see another version of me?

In the first NG+ that isn't really explained, I assumed they just died on Kreet; a definitive answer would be nice though. Or maybe a chance to come upon your corpse.

Apparently, "you," can appear in further NG+'s.

2. when you NG+ you don't kill yourself first

That would be funny.

3. The lab moment with Rafael and the doctor/where you morph to the lab that burned down. Saving Rafael shouldn't actually matter at all, because it's a different universe. The effects wouldn't even be noticeable in the current universe the player is in.

That is explained through the quest. It isn't actually the multiverse, but two universes existing as one, because they were experimenting on the artifact.

4. Mixup theories between time-travel and parallel universes/different x universes.

Yes/no.

If you treat time & space as the same thing (Interstellar has a few scenes like this) this makes sense. Then again, I could forgive this bit and suspend belief, even if questionable.

[RiseM]

Originally posted by juskom95:

Originally posted by RiseM:

The hunter and the emissary are fixed personalities in my opinion, emissary is one of four your companions from another universe, where the protagonist died. Basically emissary is lawful good, well, hunter is neutral evil. Both are not representing all the possibilities, so to be all other variance is on player character. I believe there will be a player star born faction sooner or later. Most likely with mods..

I thought it would be funny to talk to yourself and/or have an argument.

I also thought it would be fun just to be the evil person and lay waste to Constellation, New Atlantis and anyone who gets in your way.

There is actually a variant of NG+. Where are you either Meet your self, but not starborn where do you meet evil version of yourself, and when you meet multiple versions of yourself. I personally only seen one of these, I am on NG4+

[juskom95]

Originally posted by RiseM:

Originally posted by juskom95:

I thought it would be funny to talk to yourself and/or have an argument.

I also thought it would be fun just to be the evil person and lay waste to Constellation, New Atlantis and anyone who gets in your way.

There is actually a variant of NG+. Where are you either Meet your self, but not starborn coma where do you meet evil version of yourself, and when you meet multiple versions of yourself. I personally only seen one of these, I am on NG4+

I read that, but I would like to be the evil version!

C'mon, options!

[fauxpas]

What happens to the 'original you' in a standard NG+ is frustratingly vague. Especially since Vasco does have a line that references "you were dead the last time I saw you" if you get that universe.


What I think is most likely the case (and the universes where you do get to meet the 'original you' backs this up in my opinion) is that once you got to New Atlantis you simply threw the artifact at Vasco and ran away since getting shot at by pirates and touching weird alien crap that gives you scary visions isn't worth it.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by juskom95:

Originally posted by RiseM:

There is actually a variant of NG+. Where are you either Meet your self, but not starborn coma where do you meet evil version of yourself, and when you meet multiple versions of yourself. I personally only seen one of these, I am on NG4+

I read that, but I would like to be the evil version!

C'mon, options!

Yeah, that would be a nice option to add to the standard NG+ universe. It'd be fairly easy too, just add an 'attack' dialog when you first meet Constellation.

[juskom95]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Originally posted by juskom95:

I read that, but I would like to be the evil version!

C'mon, options!

Yeah, that would be a nice option to add to the standard NG+ universe. It'd be fairly easy too, just add an 'attack' dialog when you first meet Constellation.

Yup. Remove the essential flag etc.

Or allow you to attack The Eye ahead of time.

I'm sure a modder will beat Bethesda to this, as they seem to be afraid of writing truly evil scenarios in their more modern games

[AngleBoi7]

Originally posted by juskom95:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Yeah, that would be a nice option to add to the standard NG+ universe. It'd be fairly easy too, just add an 'attack' dialog when you first meet Constellation.

Yup. Remove the essential flag etc.

Or allow you to attack The Eye ahead of time.

I'm sure a modder will beat Bethesda to this, as they seem to be afraid of writing truly evil scenarios in their more modern games

They have troubles writing evil NPCs in the first place.

[juskom95]

Originally posted by AngleBoi7:

Originally posted by juskom95:

Yup. Remove the essential flag etc.

Or allow you to attack The Eye ahead of time.

I'm sure a modder will beat Bethesda to this, as they seem to be afraid of writing truly evil scenarios in their more modern games

They have troubles writing evil NPCs in the first place.

True. FO3 had some truly evil options, but that was a different set of writers I believe. I know FO:NV was a completely different studio.