Should have used Unreal Engine 5...

[Fast]

Then we would have had seamless transitions and no loading due to data layer streaming.

Instead we have 5000x loading screens and small zones with ded npcs on scripted loops and populated spaces that dont even match skyrims cities put together in size and content.

What we got instead? A bunch of bethesda andys who will tell you creation engine is the best cause its so mod friendly...

guess what, UE5 allows developers to allow access to any portion of their game from restricted modding to very specific portions of a game to complete access , its also something that can be changed at any time and works for any game format.


https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.1/en-US/

read and you will learn....

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/15/23454055/epic-games-unreal-engine-ps5-xbox-series-x-s-next-gen-game

https://www.techspot.com/news/96675-epic-claims-more-than-half-all-announced-console.html

[YeenBean]

Originally posted by Trouter:

Show me where Unreal has seamless advanced planet rendering technology - oh wait! No such thing exists in a premade engine and has to be made from scratch - Imagine that!

That's.. not how that works xD

[Mop Daddy]

Originally posted by Hord:

Oh BOY! let's switch to the famous Unreal engine, Where all the focus in on terrible graphics and nothing of importance to the actual game!

Oh BOY! this game would be literally launching with the framerate of -2 if it was an Unreal engine product. That game engine is so trash when it comes to optimization, God what an TRASH game engine that is. Good grief, Glad they are not using that turd of an example.

Instead they are using an outdated system so they could steal your money. They couldn't even update the AI b.c they decided to spend all the money on marketing.

[Just Chill]

Starfield does everything right with honoring the games of good ol' times!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRTuKIg7VG0

[Slatepaws]

Originally posted by Hord:

Oh BOY! let's switch to the famous Unreal engine, Where all the focus in on terrible graphics and nothing of importance to the actual game!

Oh BOY! this game would be literally launching with the framerate of -2 if it was an Unreal engine product. That game engine is so trash when it comes to optimization, God what an TRASH game engine that is. Good grief, Glad they are not using that turd of an example.

dragon quest 11, using unreal engine 4. larger open environments than starfield, larger towns where there is only a loading screen going into a castle, but every other house that can be entered can be without a loading screen.
using a 4k+ texture mod, high poly models at 1440p on a 7900xt, rock steady 1440p 144hz and fps.

[Jamie Wolf]

Originally posted by Gigantoad:

Originally posted by Fast:

with the correct licensing and if you use the right scheme through Epic Games you can attain the IDE for free or at a significant discount as part of the agreement.

It comes with all the tools necessary to work in your own tools or work within the provided stuff....Its also extremely efficient.

LOL

WTF are you even talking about. None of this has ANYTHING to do with an IDE. If it's just the "tools" word I used, this is a pretty common word in software development that I just explained above. But just forget about the word, ok? Think of "custom developed software" instead. Tailor-made stuff to help with the development of your specific type of game, of which Bethesda must have accumulated a ♥♥♥♥ ton over the decades. You are not just going to switch to another game engine mid development. This would be a very complicated, tedious and costly process. The only time they could start doing that is right now, AFTER this game came out. Like CDProjekt has decided to use UE5 for the next game after Cyberpunk came out.

As a developer (not a game dev though), custom tooling is extremely important. You definitely need custom tools that are not in your ide to do all sorts of day to day tasks, while most ide have plugins, they often don't have plugins for your exact needs. Sometimes that means you find a separate tool that meets your needs, other times it means you need to make the tools yourself.

I have also done fairly extensive modding for various games, and usually find myself or other members of the team writing tools to help us that are very purpose built that you can't really translate to another game or tech. So I would be utterly shocked if Bethesda didn't have such tools that would need to be remade from scratch like you said if they swapped engines.

Also, UE5 is terribly unfriendly for modders as others have pointed out

[☣ βioClone λx-45 ☣]

People asks for a new engine because they want upgrades on every element seen on Bethesda's games...

Some argue the engine is too old, others argue that "you simply cannot change the whole engine and it being an acceptable risk/financial investment for the studio"

The thing is, the most optimal approach would be to get constant engine upgrade by bethesda... the real problem? they are not really investing 8or at least delivering) that much into it... maybe they should cut on half "linear game development" and invest that time on upgrading their engine and their dev tools for every new game, rather only a mayor revision each generation and later minor upgrades.

Latelly they deliver less, but looks like they waste more time for it than ever... Others like Rockstar (which games I dont really enjoy that much in comparison) managed to increase development time but were able to upgrade most elements for their franchises getting a favorable opinion of their fanbase.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Bot:

Go ahead and send them this in an email. I want to see their reaction when reading this proposal. Oh, and don't forget to mention how you really think changing an entire development pipeline is a good idea.

its better than getting ES6 in creation ...

[Gigantoad]

Originally posted by Jamie Wolf:

Originally posted by Gigantoad:

LOL

WTF are you even talking about. None of this has ANYTHING to do with an IDE. If it's just the "tools" word I used, this is a pretty common word in software development that I just explained above. But just forget about the word, ok? Think of "custom developed software" instead. Tailor-made stuff to help with the development of your specific type of game, of which Bethesda must have accumulated a ♥♥♥♥ ton over the decades. You are not just going to switch to another game engine mid development. This would be a very complicated, tedious and costly process. The only time they could start doing that is right now, AFTER this game came out. Like CDProjekt has decided to use UE5 for the next game after Cyberpunk came out.

As a developer (not a game dev though), custom tooling is extremely important. You definitely need custom tools that are not in your ide to do all sorts of day to day tasks, while most ide have plugins, they often don't have plugins for your exact needs. Sometimes that means you find a separate tool that meets your needs, other times it means you need to make the tools yourself.

I have also done fairly extensive modding for various games, and usually find myself or other members of the team writing tools to help us that are very purpose built that you can't really translate to another game or tech. So I would be utterly shocked if Bethesda didn't have such tools that would need to be remade from scratch like you said if they swapped engines.

Also, UE5 is terribly unfriendly for modders as others have pointed out

Right. Now imagine 30 years worth of tools and a custom engine that goes back... how far? Morrowind? And includes all the modding stuff that has made their games so long lasting? Good lord, I don't even wanna imagine how much work it would be to port all that UE5. I'm reasonably sure that enhancing the engine and removing its limitation would be a lot more feasible.

Hence I'm fairly convinced that TES6 is going to be in Creation Engine as well. Maybe they'll call v3 by then.

[Jamie Wolf]

Originally posted by Gigantoad:

Right. Now imagine 30 years worth of tools and a custom engine that goes back... how far? Morrowind? And includes all the modding stuff that has made their games so long lasting? Good lord, I don't even wanna imagine how much work it would be to port all that UE5. I'm reasonably sure that enhancing the engine and removing its limitation would be a lot more feasible.

Hence I'm fairly convinced that TES6 is going to be in Creation Engine as well. Maybe they'll call v3 by then.

Agreed, although I thought they had already confirmed TES6 would be still on creation. Given that we know it's already in development and has been for some time, I suspect the engine selection was decided some years ago

Edit: yes Todd confirmed back in 2021 that it would use an upgraded creation 2

[Janky Nose Hair Guy]

All about money. What Bethesda is encountering is the same that many large development software development companies run into. Huge team with a workforce very familiar and skilled in a set of tools. There are several strategies for dealing with this including footing the bill by buying a younger company with a younger staff and all the tools in place or hiring a whole new team with a whole new engine. These entail risk. Up to Bethesda. I'm sure the conversation on this thread has been discussed numerous times.

You guys that think you know better and can toss out the several million to build up a Bethesda killer I salute you sarcastically. You sound like the 18 year old that still think they know everything just before the real world slaps them down hard. :)

Except if you really do have millions and the guts to try. I say go for it. I will loose nothing and maybe get to play something fun...or jump onto steam and watch everything complain about your game :)

[Gigantoad]

Originally posted by Jamie Wolf:

Originally posted by Gigantoad:

Right. Now imagine 30 years worth of tools and a custom engine that goes back... how far? Morrowind? And includes all the modding stuff that has made their games so long lasting? Good lord, I don't even wanna imagine how much work it would be to port all that UE5. I'm reasonably sure that enhancing the engine and removing its limitation would be a lot more feasible.

Hence I'm fairly convinced that TES6 is going to be in Creation Engine as well. Maybe they'll call v3 by then.

Agreed, although I thought they had already confirmed TES6 would be still on creation. Given that we know it's already in development and has been for some time, I suspect the engine selection was decided some years ago

Edit: yes Todd confirmed back in 2021 that it would use an upgraded creation 2

Ah ok. Yeah makes sense.

[Codian]

Are any of you game developers? No?

Bethesda has their engine which they made for their games to work for their games.
They’ve updated it over the years so it’s not like it’s version 1.0.

I read a discussion between game developers and all of them said “you can’t just copy paste into a new engine, nothing would work. If you did want to put the game on a new engine you would have to start from scratch”

Meanwhile Bethesda has given us a fantastic experience.
It’s not the experience a lot of you fantasized about so I get you’re all a little butt hurt.

I for one expected it to be the way it is.
I’m happy.
0 bugs on my Xbox play through so far. Story is good (not fantastic but I’m guessing it builds on where I am now)
Upgrading is fun
Flying ship around is fun
Hey packing around is fun
Lock picking is… different.
Take a few chill pills and enjoy it for what it is.
Or don’t play it and ♥♥♥♥ off.

[MagicHp]

Originally posted by Fast:

Should have used Unreal Engine 5...

Isn't that what your parents said when you were born?

[endsequence]

The creation engine isn't the same from its 1.0 days, as is the crytek or unreal engine. Have you actually played an unreal 5 engine game? It is pretty sloppy still (the finals, rem2). Not exactly pumping out frame rates.... Rem 2 is unreal engine 5 and it has HEAPS of loading screens, fog walls etc.

[Fast]

Originally posted by endsequence:

The creation engine isn't the same from its 1.0 days, as is the crytek or unreal engine. Have you actually played an unreal 5 engine game? It is pretty sloppy still (the finals, rem2). Not exactly pumping out frame rates.... Rem 2 is unreal engine 5 and it has HEAPS of loading screens, fog walls etc.

You realise this is about developer competency not the engine capability right?