Another title Ruined by AMD™ ?

[Wrinkly]

AMD is Starfield’s Exclusive PC Partner - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ABnU6Zo0uA . Remember to hit the thumbs down as dislikes are outnumbering likes.

Sad news indeed. Will this title also lack decent RT, DLSS and XeSS due to being sponsored by AMD?

"Is DLSS Really "Better Than Native"? - 24 Game Comparison, DLSS 2 vs FSR 2 vs Native" - https://youtu.be/O5B_dqi_Syc
"Nvidia's DLSS 2 vs. AMD's FSR 2 in 26 Games, Which Looks Better? - The Ultimate Analysis" - https://youtu.be/1WM_w7TBbj0
"Can AMD Match Nvidia Yet? - FSR 2.2 vs DLSS 2.4 Analysis" - https://youtu.be/w85M3KxUtJk

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

Starfield Will Get NVIDIA DLSS 3 Modded in During the Early Access Period, Modder PureDark Confirms - https://wccftech.com/starfield-nvidia-dlss-3/

As most AMD-sponsored games released in the past few months, like the aforementioned Star Wars Jedi: Survivor, launched without NVIDIA DLSS support, the same is likely to happen with Starfield. The sponsorship was confirmed yesterday with a press release that only mentioned AMD FSR 2 support, so things aren't looking great for DLSS or Intel XeSS support, at least at launch.

DSOG covering the story https://www.dsogaming.com/news/amd-announced-that-it-will-be-starfields-exclusive-pc-partner/ -

As you may have guessed, the game does not appear to have any specific PC-only Ray Tracing effects. This is a missed opportunity as Starfield could really benefit from RTGI, RTAO and RT Shadows.

What’s also disappointing here is the fact that Starfield won’t support NVIDIA’s DLSS 2 or DLSS 3. As we reported a few days ago, AMD appears to be preventing developers from using NVIDIA’s AI upscaling tech. This is another bummer as Starfield seems likely to be a CPU-heavy game, so DLSS 3 would have been ideal for it.

From the Star Wars - Jedi Survivor discussion -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

2023 and the title lacks DLSS and a decent RT implementation. It's so disappointing to see this carry on from AMD. I think it hurts them more than it helps as it shows going forward there is little to no effort being made beyond console / mobile markets. This makes me less likely to consider AMD.

Update June 21st, 2023 -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

What’s Up With The Missing NVIDIA DLSS Support In AMD Sponsored FSR Titles? https://wccftech.com/whats-up-with-the-missing-nvidia-dlss-support-in-amd-sponsored-fsr-titles/

Good to see the tech media starting to pickup on this anti-consumer move by AMD.

Why Are My Favorite AAA Titles Missing Support For NVIDIA DLSS?

So all of this leads to one of the biggest questions that most gamers have right now and that's the DLSS support in some of the biggest recent releases? We have told you how NVIDIA has made it a lot easier to integrate upscaling technologies in games and has provided tools to everyone to make their choice of upscaling tech easier to integrate into any title.

If we take a look at some of the most recent NVIDIA and AMD-sponsored releases, we would see that almost all NVIDIA-sponsored titles had DLSS and FSR support at or soon after launch. Every title except Battlefield 2042 had DLSS/FSR support added to it. The only reason Battlefield 2024 didn't have FSR 2 support was that the upscaling technology wasn't available at the time of the launch.

Looking at the other camp (AMD), out of the 13 or so sponsored AAA titles, only 3 titles received support for DLSS. This is something to be concerned about since these are major AMD-sponsored titles and game developers might have been asked to keep upscaling technology exclusivity to the Radeon camp since there's no reason to not have DLSS or XeSS support within these titles. Even in Intel's camp, the company has been very open in the integration of its own and competition tech in AAA titles.

Even in unofficial support, DLSS excels over FSR 2 in the AAA title, Star Wars Jedi Survivor.

Don't want to read? Watch a video - AMD's Anti-Gamer dealings- And they DON'T DENY IT! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzz9xC4GxpM&t=360s

Update June 24th -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

NVIDIA is more pro-consumer than AMD regarding PC upscalers - https://www.dsogaming.com/news/nvidia-is-more-pro-consumer-than-amd-regarding-ai-upscalers/

So, instead of improving its tech, AMD appears to be restricting developers from using NVIDIA’s tech. And since we are on the topic of FSR… where the hell is FSR 3.0? You know, AMD’s answer to NVIDIA’s DLSS 3?

As WCCFtech noted, most of the NVIDIA-sponsored titles had DLSS and FSR support at or soon after launch. On the other hand, out of the 13 AMD-sponsored AAA games, only 3 of them received support for DLSS.

To be clear, NVIDIA has also done some shady stuff in the past. However, in this particular case, the green team is more pro-consumer than its rival.

Shame AMD.

Update June 26th -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

Digital Foundry now commenting on this anti-consumer move by AMD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7xdNeZhaC0&t=3387s

Note they also mention the 'anaemic' RT approach by AMD.

Update June 30th -

Originally posted by fatezeroxx:

https://youtu.be/w_eScXZiyY4

AMD avoids answering question and provides no comment answer to Steve from Gamers Nexus if Starfield will block competing Upscaling Technologies.

Not answering is answering, We have indeed got a good proof that it is amd is blocking DLSS and XeSS, there are lots of AMD fanboys here defending anti-consumer practices.

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

Nixxes’ graphics programmer comments on DLSS/FSR exclusivity - https://www.dsogaming.com/news/nixxes-graphics-programmer-comments-on-dlss-fsr-exclusivity/#more-172609

Nixxes’ graphics programmer, Nico van Bentum, shared his thoughts on the recent PC drama surrounding the upscaling techniques. And, as everyone has been saying, Nico believes there’s no excuse to support only one PC upscaling tech and not all three of them.

As Nico van Bentum said:

“We have a relatively trivial wrapper around DLSS, FSR2, and XeSS. All three APIs are so similar nowadays, there’s really no excuse.”

Now in case you didn’t know, DLSS, FSR 2 and XeSS use current and previous frames (temporal data), motion vectors, and the depth buffer. So, once you’ve implemented support for one of them, you’ve already done 90% of the work for the other two.

In short, it’s relatively easy to add support for FSR 2 and XeSS once a game uses DLSS 2. Similarly, when a game uses FSR 2, it’s really easy to implement DLSS 2. And, this is precisely why we’ve seen a lot of “FSR 2 -> DLSS 2” Mods and vice versa.

For those wondering, Bethesda has not stated yet whether there are any plans for adding DLSS 2 to Starfield. From what we know so far, this highly anticipated game will support FSR 2.0 at launch. Moreover, it will be an AMD-sponsored title.

Update July 3rd -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

A little more 'opinion' from Digital Foundry on this via DF Direct Weekly #118: Is AMD Blocking DLSS/XeSS in Starfield? Red Dead Remastered Incoming? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvEpjkwc3P0

Update July 4th -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

PCPer, the old mans podcast, picking up the story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z74xLRhFquU

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

AMD leaning Hardware Unboxed - AMD Screws Gamers: Sponsorships Likely Block DLSS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Lcjq2Zc_s

Update July 7th -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

Starfield Announced Sad News... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxAd41nag1c

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

Originally posted by Playerguy11:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X51DB4bIT68

Replying to Comments: AMD Likely Blocks DLSS (Angry Fanboy Edition) made me chuckle. I feel the problem has arisen due to media giving Nvidia a hard time for so long that people just believed AMD was the good guy. Not so, graphics tech matters on PC and we suffer due to dodgy deals such as some sponsorship has shown. Fanboys wake up, take notice, learn from this.

Update July 9th -

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

STAR WARS Jedi: Survivor - The Ryzen Experience -

Originally posted by Alyssa:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u39qRWEhTBE

Well spotted. People keep asking for where the definitive evidence is of AMD blocking superior competing tech while they forget that evidence is used to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

[Mightylink]

If you think AMD are the ones holding back RT you don't know the Creation Engine very well...

[DasWulf]

Unfortunately, it seems AMD would rather "purchase" these partnerships, than actually invest that money into making better, more appealing, products.

[patrick68794]

Originally posted by Mightylink:

If you think AMD are the ones holding back RT you don't know the Creation Engine very well...

And you clearly don't know anything at all about it.

[NathanD7]

imagine thinking amd paid for this, instead of microsoft paying amd for the sponsorship.

[Doctor Mantis Toboggan]

Very disappointing and worrisome.

AMD sponsored Jedi Survivor, and that game performed terribly even on 4080s and 4090s.

DLSS 3 and Frame Gen would've improved performance for so many people.

It's actually so anti-consumer that AMD is blocking their competitor features, the publisher & developers should not allow this....

Sponsor the game, sure but don't be anti-customer when I literally have an AMD CPU but you're punishing me for having an NVIDIA GPU?

Makes me never want to buy AMD again tbh.

[Caduryn]

Another Nvidia Cry Baby Topic about their *superior* GPUs who cant even run properly without additional Software....

[Wrinkly]

Originally posted by Caduryn:

Another Nvidia Cry Baby Topic about their *superior* GPUs who cant even run properly without additional Software....

We use DLSS and RT for better image quality. Don't be so ignorant

Originally posted by Wrinkly:

Originally posted by xrodney:

Sure, but it takes effort and time to add it and more time to debug and it only works for Nvidia. FSR works for all GPUS be it Nvidia, AMD or Intel.

Nvidia created an API called Streamline, https://developer.nvidia.com/rtx/streamline, which allows a developer to add all 3 techniques, DLSS, FSR and XeSS, to a title with little effort. Intel has signed up for this, but usual AMD has yet to although it must be more than a year now since it was made available.

Nividia's DLSS provides the best quality while also providing frame generation for the Lovelace series. DLSS works with Lovelace, Ampere and Turing, the past 6.5 years worth of GPU from Nvidia.

Intel's XeSS, when used with Intel cards, comes close to DLSS in quality as like DLSS it is built on AI. XeSS also works on non Intel cards with lower quality.

AMD's FSR, is the last resort offering the worst quality but also works on Nvidia and Intel.

This means if you have a Nvidia GPU, that is less than 6.5 years old, you should be using DLSS. If you have an Intel GPU then you should be using XeSS. If you have a GPU older than 6.5 years or from AMD you only have the option of FSR.

"Is DLSS Really "Better Than Native"? - 24 Game Comparison, DLSS 2 vs FSR 2 vs Native" - https://youtu.be/O5B_dqi_Syc
"Nvidia's DLSS 2 vs. AMD's FSR 2 in 26 Games, Which Looks Better? - The Ultimate Analysis" - https://youtu.be/1WM_w7TBbj0
"Can AMD Match Nvidia Yet? - FSR 2.2 vs DLSS 2.4 Analysis" - https://youtu.be/w85M3KxUtJk

As PC gamers we shouldn't have to settle for less. All PC titles should be launching with all 3 techniques and as a UE 4 title, which has very good plugins for each, this title should definitely be using them. The only reason it's not is the AMD sponsorship.

Originally posted by Fast Pooper:

I don’t blame AMD from resorting to the same tactics as Nvidia after all Nvidia became very successful from them but they definitely are inferior in terms of features and performance.

Sure, AMD can go for the same tactics that Nvidia has used in the past. But we, the PC gamer, suffers when they do. The quality or even performance for RT is simply not there on AMD. Oddly the best looking game so far on PC, Cyberpunk 2077 Overdrive, was sponsored by Nvidia and supports FSR. Nvidia is not blocking AMD tech. That's the way it should be. This title would have looked fantastic with a full suite of RT yet in its current state looks flat.

Remember Nvidia has somewhere ~84% of the market share meaning ~84% of PC gamers are using Nvidia GPUs. AMD has ~11% and Intel 5%. - https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-maintains-lead-as-sales-of-graphics-cards-hit-all-time-low-in-2022-jpr

Nvidia maintained its lead with 13 million desktop GPUs and an 84% market share. Also, analysts from JPR mention exceptionally impressive sales of Nvidia's GeForce RTX 4090 product that carries a $1,599 price tag. AMD's market share in Q4 2022 increased modestly to 11% from 10% in the previous quarter, but declined sharply from Q4 2021 as the company only shipped around 0.8 million discrete desktop graphics cards, one of the worst quarterly results ever. Intel controlled about 5% of the market, according to Jon Peddie Research.

[Grubbs008]

It's almost like people are starting to realize how crap RT is, lose 100 fps, and then you need to lower the games overall resolution with DLSS just to get it to run properly.

[Mightylink]

Originally posted by patrick68794:

Originally posted by Mightylink:

If you think AMD are the ones holding back RT you don't know the Creation Engine very well...

And you clearly don't know anything at all about it.

No of course not, I only have a nexus page with all my mods for it...

[-={LG}=-]

Originally posted by Mightylink:

No of course not, I only have a nexus page with all my mods for it...

Heh heh heh! If I had any points to give, they'd be yours.

[psyche]

That explains a lot, of course its sponsored by amd. During Starfield direct, the gameplay footage have this weird frame time stability. Mark my words, its normal if the game is going to come out with frame time issues, stability, vram issue, etc because its amd's sponsored just like other troublesome recent games sponsored by them. Its designed to handicapped other vendors on purpose because amd's stuff arent that great.

[Professor Oak]

Yeah let's "optimize" for GPUs from a company with less than 10% marketshare lol.

And AMD's way of "optimizing" is pretty much by telling the game dev to disable every Nvidia features. And that's it XD. The game will run like crap just like all the AMD sponsored titles as of late.

[NathanD7]

Originally posted by psyche:

That explains a lot, of course its sponsored by amd. During Starfield direct, the gameplay footage have this weird frame time stability. Mark my words, its normal if the game is going to come out with frame time issues, stability, vram issue, etc because its amd's sponsored just like other troublesome recent games sponsored by them. Its designed to handicapped other vendors on purpose because amd's stuff arent that great.

huh? it was running sub 30fps on an xbox, wtf you expect.

[Caduryn]

Originally posted by psyche:

That explains a lot, of course its sponsored by amd. During Starfield direct, the gameplay footage have this weird frame time stability. Mark my words, its normal if the game is going to come out with frame time issues, stability, vram issue, etc because its amd's sponsored just like other troublesome recent games sponsored by them. Its designed to handicapped other vendors on purpose because amd's stuff arent that great.

Because the Starfield Direct was on a Xbox...

But hey, just pure hate spilling without any logic, thats Nvidia Fanboys.

[NathanD7]

Originally posted by Caduryn:

Originally posted by psyche:

That explains a lot, of course its sponsored by amd. During Starfield direct, the gameplay footage have this weird frame time stability. Mark my words, its normal if the game is going to come out with frame time issues, stability, vram issue, etc because its amd's sponsored just like other troublesome recent games sponsored by them. Its designed to handicapped other vendors on purpose because amd's stuff arent that great.

Because the Starfield Direct was on a Xbox...

But hey, just pure hate spilling without any logic

thats lots of these fanboys, little to no logic. They even believe the rumor and conspiracy that amd is paying to block other upscalers.