I went back and played Majesty 1

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

And I think I've gained some insight into what made Majesty 2 so controversial, with implications for this game since it seems to be following a lot of Majesty 2.

The main takeaway is: Majesty-likes are not real time strategy games. I don't think they could ever be made into real time strategy games either because of their main mechanic: the fact that you do not directly control your heroes.

Rather, I think you should think less "RTS" and more "RPG." However, it's an RPG from a unique perspective. You're not a heo or a group of heroes, but the quest giver. Or, maybe more accurately, you're the leader of the NPCs in "RPG Town" and its your job to build the shops and facilities to support your heroes and to give out quests in the form of the bounty flags (and some buildings might give out special quests)

And this is where Majesty 2 made its blunder. While it had some good ideas, it also tried to be more of an RTS and I don't think that worked out so well and has remained controversial.

So, if I could make a recommendation, I wouldn't advertise this game as "an RTS with a twist," but as "Imagine being the Jarl of Whiterun, a Grand Duke of Baldur's Gate or the King of Stormwind." While your guards are peerless in their bravery and loyalty to the realm, they are no match for the horrors and monstrosities that threaten your kingdom. You must recruit mighty heroes to defend your realm and smite the dark forces that threaten it!

In addition, I would scale back some of the RTS-inspired elements and replace them with something that might be more appropriate for an RPG. And, for the most part, that means making the game more hero-centric. For instance, instead of a research that upgrades your heroes, you might have a research that unlocks a service or purchasable item that has the same effect. In addition, hero voice lines should be louder and more distinct, because this is how they communicate with the player (death lines especially.) Buildings should have an "occupied" animation (basically just the lights being on inside) to show when heroes are visiting and they should be given their own color distinctive palettes instead of all blue tiles, and especially hero buildings should use the same basic color scheme as the heroes it recruits. I think that hero special abilities should be things that they automatically learn as they level up rather than being tied to research, with the exception of a few very advanced abilities that they should learn at an advanced training building (ie - coliseum/library) rather than their guild, while upgrading guilds should improve its services and introduce new services. Certain hero buildings should be mutually exclusive with others with different synergies with other heroes. For example, if you sided with Order in Majesty 1, the Healers of Agrella would plant healing herbs that your rangers could pick up to make their own healing potions, while if you sided with Chaos, the Cultists of Fervus would plant poisonous plants that your rogues could use to poison their weapons. And the mix of your base heroes (warriors, rangers, rogues and wizards) with your mutually exclusive heroes largely determines the strategic element of the game. Like i said, it's all based around essentially creating "RPG Town", like i said before.

[Blum Entertainment]

Hello, Zebulon Ecthelion

Feedback and suggestions from such experienced and aware players are extremely important to us. Thank you for your time spent on Crown of Greed and for sharing your thoughts. We will certainly discuss your recommendations with our team and see if some of them can find their way into the game. Thank you!

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Originally posted by Blum Entertainment:

Hello, Zebulon Ecthelion

Feedback and suggestions from such experienced and aware players are extremely important to us. Thank you for your time spent on Crown of Greed and for sharing your thoughts. We will certainly discuss your recommendations with our team and see if some of them can find their way into the game. Thank you!

Hey, thanks for your response. I'm rooting for this game.

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Zebulon Ecthelion:

I think I've gained some insight into what made Majesty 2 so controversial, with implications for this game since it seems to be following a lot of Majesty 2.

Originally posted by Zebulon Ecthelion:

And this is where Majesty 2 made its blunder. While it had some good ideas, it also tried to be more of an RTS and I don't think that worked out so well and has remained controversial.

What does it mean in practice?
What exactly did Majesty 2 diferent from Majesty1?
What exactly did majesty 2 wrong or controversial?

(I am experienced in both Majesties, so I am curious, what will You say)

Originally posted by Zebulon Ecthelion:

Like i said, it's all based around essentially creating "RPG Town", like i said before.

You create "RPG Town" in Majesty2 in all sense, like in Majesty1

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Originally posted by Zebulon Ecthelion:

I think I've gained some insight into what made Majesty 2 so controversial, with implications for this game since it seems to be following a lot of Majesty 2.

Originally posted by Zebulon Ecthelion:

And this is where Majesty 2 made its blunder. While it had some good ideas, it also tried to be more of an RTS and I don't think that worked out so well and has remained controversial.

What does it mean in practice?
What exactly did Majesty 2 diferent from Majesty1?
What exactly did majesty 2 wrong or controversial?

(I am experienced in both Majesties, so I am curious, what will You say)

Originally posted by Zebulon Ecthelion:

Like i said, it's all based around essentially creating "RPG Town", like i said before.

You create "RPG Town" in Majesty2 in all sense, like in Majesty1

It's not that you don't create an RPG town in Majesty 2 so much as that Majesty 2 has picked up things to make it more like a traditional RTS and this causes it to have something of an identity crisis.

Maybe the most controversial thing about Majesty 2 is the AI. The AI in Majesty 2 causes your heroes to mostly respond to bounty flags with little initiative of their own, at least in comparison to Majesty 1. This has the effect of moving Majesty 2 a bit closer to a traditional RTS, with a system based on your units responding to your commands.

The other issue is all the fiddly upgrades the game introduces. Nearly every guild has a way of upgrading the units its produces. This is a strategic decision from RTS. Basically, the cost and time put into the upgrade could have been spent on more units, so there's always the strategic decision of if and when the upgrade is worth it. You'll still see AoE2 groups debate, for instance, if its better to take the paladin upgrade, or if you should just recruit the paladin upgrade's cost in more cavaliers. In a Majesty-like game, taking the upgrade is just a no-brainer. You're only ever going to recruit a certain number of units from any given building, so there is no "units vs upgrade" debate. In a Majesty-style game, it's better for this to be an item or service. Not only does this fit better in the RPG mold, there's actual strategic thinking required. If your Paladin's Guild has an upgrade that gives paladins a new ability or buff, then it's a no-brainer to take it, but if instead the Paladin's Guild has an upgrade that allows it to sell the paladin-unique weapon "Sword of Justice" which gives them a significant upgrade upon purchase, then you have the question of if your paladins can even afford a Sword of Justice. Or, in the case of Majesty 1, you had advanced abilities that could be learned, but they were researched and learned at a separate, much squishier building than the guilds and the big question in the air is if your heroes would even learn them since they required advanced levels to learn. This is especially true since the library skills were mostly for the infamously squishy wizards. It was actually a big question if any of your wizards would be able to live long enough to learn fireball (level 3) and an even bigger question of if they could live long enough to learn meteor storm (level 7). In Majesty 2, these abilities and upgrades would be researched in the much more secure guilds, and (at least as far as I'm aware) were applied the moment they were researched, feeling much more RTS than the RPG-inspired Majesty mechanics.

[SgtScum]

Yes please no rts functions at all. You build your town and give out quests and if you did your job right the heroes will prevail. No direct control of heroes.

[spike86]

Originally posted by Zebulon Ecthelion:

This is especially true since the library skills were mostly for the infamously squishy wizards. It was actually a big question if any of your wizards would be able to live long enough to learn fireball (level 3) and an even bigger question of if they could live long enough to learn meteor storm (level 7). In Majesty 2, these abilities and upgrades would be researched in the much more secure guilds, and (at least as far as I'm aware) were applied the moment they were researched, feeling much more RTS than the RPG-inspired Majesty mechanics.

AFAIK (I'm replaying M2 right now) heroes need to learn (and spend money) on ANY upgrade in the guilds.
they enter with the icon of purchase stuff at the side of the portrait (as if going to the market or blacksmith) stay for a brief time, deposit money and then get out with a special animation.
I've checked a few to make sure and effectively they learned the skill only after this process.

they learn most of their abilities through level up EXCEPT for guild research.

I think the only real difference between M1 and M2 it's the AI and the pacing.

even at 30fps (to offset the technical problem of being overwhelmed too early by monsters) the pacing requires quite at lot of aggression, also warriors and rangers NEVER attack dens without direct order (a common thing in M1 instead).
so you need to aggressively place rewards to both explore and destroy, all the times.
in practice they have no agency on their own (except defending if close to enemies, getting treasures, purchasing stuff, and fleeing in danger) and you need to be extremely proactive in order to have something done.

also as you said interaction between heroes is also missing.
no planting and gathering stuff, no party forming on their own etc

[Space]

An angel cries anytime someone brings up maj2.

[spike86]

Originally posted by Space:

An angel cries anytime someone brings up maj2. :eagletear:

Why? I'm replaying it right now, and enjoying it a lot, just like before.
Sure, I may like Maj1 for certian features more, but the eye candy and cemetery of maj2 are neat.

We just have to remember to play at 30fps all the times, 60 is very challenging and anything above it is night impossible

[Space]

Originally posted by spike86:

Originally posted by Space:

An angel cries anytime someone brings up maj2.

Why?

Why was there no maj3?

[spike86]

Originally posted by Space:

Originally posted by spike86:

Why?

Why was there no maj3?

yeah I agree, it's time for a sequel merging the best part of both games