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討論區規矩與守則
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But I just won a 4 player game on turn 7 with Liet/Kynes, guild bankers and a bunch of Fremen cards. I drew 3 spice must flows on a single early reveal to make it the last round, going from 7 to 10 vp. 6 spice must flows total in the game.
In that game, as in others, conflict and intrigue played a secondary role. The game is like the novel - humans, intrigue and combat, and at the end no one is sure of victory.
So you were incredibly lucky?
Honestly I'm not even sure how you managed to buy a 9 cost card 3 times in 6 turns and still somehow had the ability to get 7 other VPs.
Playing Helena Richese, first round Leit comes up. Set it aside with the signet ring and bought it. From that point forward I had a spice must flow strategy. Again later with helena, set aside Stilgar (water/fremen), then set aside guild bankers, (spice must flow cost 3 less during reveal). Made it a point to trash cards, including 2 spice must flow so they didn't clog my hand. Bought the third spice must flow at the end of turn 6, the only one still in my deck.
Round 7 starts, drawing cards at research station, selective breeding. With Leit's 2 persuasion mulitiplier on fremen cards, I had 18 persuasion. 3 x 6 =18, with Guild bankers that is 3 spice must flow. It worked out, and it was fun as hell.
How you're buying SMF in any reasonable time is baffling. With the standard 5 cards, and the average persuasion on a card is about 1. So 5 cards ~= 5 persuasion, or less at the game start. Given that you must take agent actions, you can only realistically expect 3 persuasion in your first turns, which means you're not RELIABLY buying anything good. Maybe after that you have a couple of cards with 2 or even 3 persuasion, or you can draw some extra cards, but even then 9 persuasion requires 3 cards remaining with 3 persuasion each, or 5 cards with mostly 2 persuasion each (and thus you have taken no agent actions.)
What happens most of the game is - On my turn, the Imperium row is stuffed with trash, and I don't want to buy trash so I pass. Everyone passes and we all get 1 VP each from some partnership or something. Rinse & repeat. If anyone buys the trash from the Imperium row, the other players reap the rewards until the trash fills back up again probably on the buying player's turn. The game is won by whomever gets lucky on Intrigue cards by drawing the most VP/combat wins on them.
Example Imperium Row from the game I just played:
2 x Spice Hunter
Crysknife
Gene Manipulation
Space Travel
Drew 2 Dagger in my opening hand, so I had 2 persuasion. If I buy anything, it just refreshes the Imperium Row and whichever of my opponents got 5 persuasion will take the good stuff. Opponent 1 takes a bad card, then can't afford the good card that falls after it. Opponent 2 takes the 5 cost pickup that fills the gap, while other players get nothing (or a blank card) for our turns. Opponent 2 basically instant wins, and yet the other players have done nothing wrong.
If people are saying that you should only play 7 turns, then you'll only see the new cards you put in your deck about once anyhow. It seems weird... turn 4 buy a card, then it's shuffled into your 15-20 card deck and you don't see it until turn 7/8? Is this even a deck builder?
At the Start i though cards like "Power Play" too costly cause they trash themself. But thats a bonus, so they dont scramble your deck.
Deckbuilding here means destroy the less important cards. Thats means starting cards especially.
Imagine you have the cards "spice thopter" (2cards when 2 influence with 2 influence with the guild" and lady jessica (2cards). Then you take 5 at start, use the tophter for 2more, play jessica on the expsensive Benne Gerrit Tile (not secrets) and you get 4 more.
so without special abilities from leaders you can get easily 11 cards out in 1 turn, and trash one more you dont need. counts as 12 Cards.
This is like a late game dream turn also. You have bought all those cards, and shuffled them through your deck, and then drawn them both in the same turn before the game ends? LOL.
You're not telling me anything new in your comment. OF COURSE Power Play is a good card, because it does something good and then removes itself. These concepts are basic. The game is just very very random, and depends more on the intrigue cards you draw and what is on the imperium row than anything else.
I do hear your frustration though when you've made all the plans to build your ideal combat win and then an opponent puts down two ambushes and a Private Army. But that would have incredible luck to have all at the same time.
My advice here would be to keep an eye on the number of intrigue cards the players acquire and keep - if they hold 1 for most of the game, likely they will have one of the end games. If they are getting 3+, likely holding out for something or waiting for the ideal combat. If they have 3+, that might be a good time to drop an agent on Secrets to not only obtain of our own, but steal one of theirs.
In general, I align mechanics in this game akin to Poker - working out other players strategies which building your own while hoping luck will go your way and if it doesn't, adapt as necessary.
It's more that this is the correct way to play the game, so it's likely that it will happen.
If your deck is regularly 15+ cards then I think I see the problem. 15 cards is massive for this game. It's not a traditional deckbuilder, it's worker placement with deckbuilding elements. 13 is a good size to aim for, but with some of the expansion leaders I've seen decks as small as 7 cards. If you have a power card, you want the ability to cycle into it as often as possible.
It's absolutely a traditional deckbuilder, as minimising your deck is a very very standard concept in deckbuilders. This one just sucks because realistically you won't draw most of the cards you buy more than once.