Denuvo huh?

[William Shakesman]

Sega just can't stop losing can they?

[Dank Sidious]

kajerlou1 の投稿を引用：

It'll be broken by Monday at the latest probably. The modding scene for Persona has been around and anticipating this release for a while.

Lol people have no idea of the current state of piracy. It's going to take a while before it's cracked and none of those modders have the talent or inclination to do it.

The only reason P5R became accessible so early was because the devs messed up. Without that it's likely that P5R would remain unaccessible to pirates even to this day.

There are multiple relatively well known games that have remained uncracked for over a year. Out of all DRM nonsense i've Denuvo has been the most effective.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Vimbert の投稿を引用：

Denuvo has never stopped the pirates. It just punishes people who want to support official releases.

People who think this should go online and maybe look up a list that shows the current state of all denuvo games. Judging by your post you will probably be surprised by just how much it has stopped pirates in the recent years and for how long.

[Yürei]

Soren の投稿を引用：

Killance の投稿を引用：

Why necro a dead thread. Mods been locking them anywho.

Probably because what those individuals were saying was something that could only be proven wrong in hindsight. We can have an argument back and forth that Denuvo will be cracked in a week. It isn't until a week+ happens that one side would be proven wrong on their knowledge.

The people making posts how the game would be cracked opening launch Monday probably operated under the belief that the game would be cracked as fast as some other titles. Not knowing those cracked versions usually only happen that fast because an alternate version of the game leaks out that the developers forgot to put Denuvo on. Like say a review copy or something.

Pretty much this. A group dedicated enough could probably crack Denuvo. The question is if there is any group skilled enough and dedicated enough to do so. From what we can tell, outside major triple A games, it doesn't seems so. Its very unlikely that this will get cracked anytime soon. This kind of post is mostly expected from people who hate denuvo tho. Lack of information and misinformation usually. Rarely do they ever do their own research or testing.

[amathy]

Soren の投稿を引用：

Probably because what those individuals were saying was something that could only be proven wrong in hindsight. We can have an argument back and forth that Denuvo will be cracked in a week. It isn't until a week+ happens that one side would be proven wrong on their knowledge.

The people making posts how the game would be cracked opening launch Monday probably operated under the belief that the game would be cracked as fast as some other titles. Not knowing those cracked versions usually only happen that fast because an alternate version of the game leaks out that the developers forgot to put Denuvo on. Like say a review copy or something.

i mean you're not wrong that to demonstrably prove them wrong we had to wait, but i don't think making that call really required hindsight
almost everyone involved in denuvo cracking has left the scene and there's going to have been a total of like 7 or 8 games that got cracked this entire year excluding the ones that accidentally leaked copies without denuvo
people that think denuvo games still get cracked within a week just don't know what they're talking about, it's not 2018 anymore

[Yílõng Má]

amathy oniichan uwu の投稿を引用：

Soren の投稿を引用：

Probably because what those individuals were saying was something that could only be proven wrong in hindsight. We can have an argument back and forth that Denuvo will be cracked in a week. It isn't until a week+ happens that one side would be proven wrong on their knowledge.

The people making posts how the game would be cracked opening launch Monday probably operated under the belief that the game would be cracked as fast as some other titles. Not knowing those cracked versions usually only happen that fast because an alternate version of the game leaks out that the developers forgot to put Denuvo on. Like say a review copy or something.

i mean you're not wrong that to demonstrably prove them wrong we had to wait, but i don't think making that call really required hindsight
almost everyone involved in denuvo cracking has left the scene and there's going to have been a total of like 7 or 8 games that got cracked this entire year excluding the ones that accidentally leaked copies without denuvo
people that think denuvo games still get cracked within a week just don't know what they're talking about, it's not 2018 anymore

Yes, I've been telling them (those people who don't know about current piracy scene) that only Empress can crack Denuvo. And Empress already said that she won't crack Persona 5 Royal. It really made my days seeing those poor pirates keep hallucinating and telling themselves P5R will be cracked soon while crying .

[Yílõng Má]

Serin9X の投稿を引用：

Persepolis の投稿を引用：

Letting people pirate your game is losing.

Doesn't matter, it'll happen regardless. So the question isn't "can we prevent this from being pirated?" Because... no, no you can't. The question is "does this make the game worse for legitimate customers?" Now... I don't know if it does or not right now. I'll wait for the people good at that kind of thing to report. But usually adding extra nonsense to your game does that, so I'd say the odds are excellent the DRM does more harm than good here.

You never want to provide a worse experience for your paying customers than the pirates get.

It won't happen lol.

[amathy]

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Anyone who wanted to pirate this already did because of emulators

except of course the people who can't get it to run at all or have given up with the tons of issues that have popped up with both emulators like black screens & constant crashing because trying to emulate unstable games is almost never a good experience

[Soren]

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Anyone who wanted to pirate this already did because of emulators, so I'm not sure what the point of Denuvo is other than Sega being retarded as usual.

Emulators are an inferior experience that takes better hardware to run. Even the more polished experiences are subpar to native software. People brag about only crashing 3 times in BotW every 100 hours, when that's kind of embarassing and would probably make me quit the game if I had to deal with 30+ crashes over my thousand hours playing it. Looking into P5R switch emulation people seem content with black screens for menus, random freezes and crashes, and other issues. So they have incredibly low standards, but it is free I suppose.

Now, I will admit one thing that surprised me about looking into P5R emulation is some (maybe all) PC mods do actually work for switch emulation even if it's a bit complicated. I previously said in these forums that Switch emulation is also inferior in regards to the modding scene, but maybe that admittedly is not the case.

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Yílõng Má の投稿を引用：

only Empress can crack Denuvo. And Empress already said that she won't crack Persona 5 Royal

Neither of these statements are true.

No, I heard the exact same thing frankly. Only Empress is in the game now piraters have said on a certain cracking based reddit. I never heard that she said no to P5R specifically, just that she hates anime games that P5R falls under. She doesn't waste her time on cracking anime games, the only question was if P5R was the exception.

[Iconoclast]

Yürei の投稿を引用：

While this game has that option to emulate, it does not apply to every game. This is already proving that Denuvo does have some effect of stopping people from pirating denuvo games (at least until a group actually wants to crack said game. Doesn't appear there are a lot of groups left).

Absolute non-sequitur. We're not talking about every game, we're talking about this game, which can be emulated. This isn't a unique case, either. Denuvo has been foiled more than once by pirates bypassing the Denuvo version entirely e.g. multiplat releases, early/beta copies and so on. It's like paying to put a complicated lock on your front door but leaving your windows open, all it does is inconvenience you more than the burglar it's supposed to stop. If publishers want to waste their money by paying for DRM on one platform when pirates can just use another, then that's their prerogative, but customers would be right to complain and (more importantly) shareholders would be right to listen.

Yürei の投稿を引用：

Also I find it funny that you're saying other people are seething. Have you seen your post? Have you seen these threads? Its usually the blind Denuvo haters that spew misinformation and fearmongering that usually get mad first. People are tired of the same Denuvo threads that pop up over and over because Denuvo haters have nothing better to do but spam threads.

"Misinformation and fearmongering" sounds like a hilariously hyperbolic way to characterize a warranted mistrust of DRM, especially considering that many of the claims made are categorically true in some cases (worse performance, online required, etc) as well as the terrible precedent set by the likes of SecuROM and Starforce. If Denuvo has enough of a PR problem that people cannot stop talking ♥♥♥♥ about it, that's Denuvo's problem to fix. And if developers and publishers don't want their socials flooded with people talking more about Denuvo than their game, maybe they should stop using Denuvo. Neither of these are your problem, so feel free to stop involving yourself. Nobody asked you to be an unpaid intern in the first place, so stop crying when 'the blind Denuvo haters' make you put in overtime.

Yürei の投稿を引用：

I get why people don't like Denuvo, but grow up and don't act like you're much better when you're using a DRM platform right now.

I don't know why Denuvo shills always trot out this tired whataboutism regarding Steam DRM, Gabe Newell said it himself:
“The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates.”
Steam's software DRM is crackable in 1 minute, so why is Valve worth 10 billion dollars and controls almost all of PC gaming? My guess is that it's because Gabe was actually right and Steam's service trumps Denuvo's tech when it comes to generating sales, which is all that matters.

Soren の投稿を引用：

Emulators are an inferior experience that takes better hardware to run...

Not really the point. I know for a fact that one of the bigger deterrents to cracking DRM is when there's a multiplat release and one version has no DRM. The game never ends up cracked, but it's not because the DRM worked, it's because nobody who wanted to pirate it needed to crack it. This trend predates Denuvo, even. This begs the question: what exactly is the DRM accomplishing aside from making some versions of the game more expensive and run worse?

Soren の投稿を引用：

Only Empress is in the game now piraters have said on a certain cracking based reddit. I never heard that she said no to P5R specifically, just that she hates anime games that P5R falls under. She doesn't waste her time on cracking anime games, the only question was if P5R was the exception.

The last Empress release was a DBZ game, which is literally anime. Also, I don't like this glorification narrative of Empress like he/she's the only super genius capable of defeating final boss Denuvo. Cracking Denuvo is tedious, but there have been (and still are) people capable of doing it. It's just that Empress is the only person capable and willing to do it and provide releases, because their schizophrenic egomania helps them power through 100 hours of analyzing bytecode. Frankly, I also think Denuvo is paying Empress to stay away from new releases. Kind of ironic how people would complain in the past about pirates like they're 'stealing money from sales' or whatever, yet now there's Denuvo you're seeing money being funnelled directly from customers to crackers. It makes sense too because it's cheaper for Denuvo to pay pirates chump change to stay away, it's just never acknowledged because it destroys the supposed moral high ground of the anti-piracy crowd.

[Yürei]

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Yürei の投稿を引用：

While this game has that option to emulate, it does not apply to every game. This is already proving that Denuvo does have some effect of stopping people from pirating denuvo games (at least until a group actually wants to crack said game. Doesn't appear there are a lot of groups left).

Absolute non-sequitur. We're not talking about every game, we're talking about this game, which can be emulated. This isn't a unique case, either. Denuvo has been foiled more than once by pirates bypassing the Denuvo version entirely e.g. multiplat releases, early/beta copies and so on. It's like paying to put a complicated lock on your front door but leaving your windows open, all it does is inconvenience you more than the burglar it's supposed to stop. If publishers want to waste their money by paying for DRM on one platform when pirates can just use another, then that's their prerogative, but customers would be right to complain and (more importantly) shareholders would be right to listen.

Unless you have actual statistics, please do not act like you know how much Denuvo helps or not. I get that it may be cracked eventually, but obviously to the publishers, it seems to be working enough to keep adding to their games. Also I love how you brushed of Soren's point of how emulators are a buggy mess at times that require stronger computer build.

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Yürei の投稿を引用：

Also I find it funny that you're saying other people are seething. Have you seen your post? Have you seen these threads? Its usually the blind Denuvo haters that spew misinformation and fearmongering that usually get mad first. People are tired of the same Denuvo threads that pop up over and over because Denuvo haters have nothing better to do but spam threads.

"Misinformation and fearmongering" sounds like a hilariously hyperbolic way to characterize a warranted mistrust of DRM, especially considering that many of the claims made are categorically true in some cases (worse performance, online required, etc) as well as the terrible precedent set by the likes of SecuROM and Starforce. If Denuvo has enough of a PR problem that people cannot stop talking ♥♥♥♥ about it, that's Denuvo's problem to fix. And if developers and publishers don't want their socials flooded with people talking more about Denuvo than their game, maybe they should stop using Denuvo. Neither of these are your problem, so feel free to stop involving yourself. Nobody asked you to be an unpaid intern in the first place, so stop crying when 'the blind Denuvo haters' make you put in overtime.

I'm not saying that some are not true, but theres a lot of bs that people say Denuvo causes. Do I need to remind you of the misinformation about Denuvo killing your hard drive or ssd? The problem I have is that its not one or two Denuvo threads popping up, its multiple threads just to spam the same comments over and over with a lot of misinformation. It really doesn't help when one thread is already really active and they just choose to create another one with the same topic.

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Yürei の投稿を引用：

I get why people don't like Denuvo, but grow up and don't act like you're much better when you're using a DRM platform right now.

I don't know why Denuvo shills always trot out this tired whataboutism regarding Steam DRM, Gabe Newell said it himself:
“The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates.”
Steam's software DRM is crackable in 1 minute, so why is Valve worth 10 billion dollars and controls almost all of PC gaming? My guess is that it's because Gabe was actually right and Steam's service trumps Denuvo's tech when it comes to generating sales, which is all that matters.

Right now from what I can see, Persona 5 Royal on Steam is the better option despite Denuvo considering how well its doing. Kinda shows how much Denuvo is truly affecting people. Also, guess what, you're still using a DRM. If steam ever goes down or something happens to your game license, there goes your game.

[Soren]

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Soren の投稿を引用：

Emulators are an inferior experience that takes better hardware to run...

Not really the point. I know for a fact that one of the bigger deterrents to cracking DRM is when there's a multiplat release and one version has no DRM. The game never ends up cracked, but it's not because the DRM worked, it's because nobody who wanted to pirate it needed to crack it. This trend predates Denuvo, even. This begs the question: what exactly is the DRM accomplishing aside from making some versions of the game more expensive and run worse?

The fact that emulators are often worse experiences is a point indirectly argued by those so vehemently against Denuvo. They say Denuvo effects performance. It usually doesn't. It effects load times for most games and the only time people can prove otherwise is when it's tied in with other DRMs.

Emulators on the other hand do drastically effect performance, they are unstable experiences all around too. Crashing is going to be a thing even on fifth generation hardware emulation, let alone 7th gen. You can't advocate for Denuvo objectively making your experience worse even though there is no evidence for that and then turn around and go this other experience that is heavily impacted does not matter because no one cares about that. You are arguing against yourself and having massive cognitive disconnect while doing so.

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Soren の投稿を引用：

Only Empress is in the game now piraters have said on a certain cracking based reddit. I never heard that she said no to P5R specifically, just that she hates anime games that P5R falls under. She doesn't waste her time on cracking anime games, the only question was if P5R was the exception.

The last Empress release was a DBZ game, which is literally anime.

This is just what I heard pirates say on a board all about pirating. Also, DBZ is kind of like the most mainstream anime of all time. You can like DBZ and not be an anime fan, even if that seems contradictory. Plenty of people exhibit this behaviour. I know B4nny the TF2 pro said he doesn't like anime overall, but then still talks about DBZ fondly.

[amathy]

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Frankly, I also think Denuvo is paying Empress to stay away from new releases. Kind of ironic how people would complain in the past about pirates like they're 'stealing money from sales' or whatever, yet now there's Denuvo you're seeing money being funnelled directly from customers to crackers. It makes sense too because it's cheaper for Denuvo to pay pirates chump change to stay away, it's just never acknowledged because it destroys the supposed moral high ground of the anti-piracy crowd.

i'm not sure you can use literal pure speculation as an example of irony or an argument "destroying someone's moral high ground"

also the dbz game is like 4-5 years old and was using an extremely old version of denuvo
also pretty sure empress just went back to crack some dlc since they cracked db fighterz in 2018

[Yílõng Má]

Only Empress is in the game now piraters have said on a certain cracking based reddit. I never heard that she said no to P5R specifically, just that she hates anime games that P5R falls under. She doesn't waste her time on cracking anime games, the only question was if P5R was the exception.

The last Empress release was a DBZ game, which is literally anime. Also, I don't like this glorification narrative of Empress like he/she's the only super genius capable of defeating final boss Denuvo. Cracking Denuvo is tedious, but there have been (and still are) people capable of doing it. It's just that Empress is the only person capable and willing to do it and provide releases, because their schizophrenic egomania helps them power through 100 hours of analyzing bytecode. Frankly, I also think Denuvo is paying Empress to stay away from new releases. Kind of ironic how people would complain in the past about pirates like they're 'stealing money from sales' or whatever, yet now there's Denuvo you're seeing money being funnelled directly from customers to crackers. It makes sense too because it's cheaper for Denuvo to pay pirates chump change to stay away, it's just never acknowledged because it destroys the supposed moral high ground of the anti-piracy crowd.

Other people who are capable of cracking Denuvo already work for Denuvo lol. We don't talk about 3-4 years ago, when there were other crackers beside Empress. For now, Empress is the only one who's able to do it and not on Denuvo's payroll. And if Empress doesn't crack it, those filthy pirates won't be able to enjoy this game.

I just love seeing poor people who don't get to enjoy something that I can.

[Dank Sidious]

Iconoclast の投稿を引用：

Soren の投稿を引用：

Only Empress is in the game now piraters have said on a certain cracking based reddit. I never heard that she said no to P5R specifically, just that she hates anime games that P5R falls under. She doesn't waste her time on cracking anime games, the only question was if P5R was the exception.

The last Empress release was a DBZ game, which is literally anime. Also, I don't like this glorification narrative of Empress like he/she's the only super genius capable of defeating final boss Denuvo. Cracking Denuvo is tedious, but there have been (and still are) people capable of doing it. It's just that Empress is the only person capable and willing to do it and provide releases, because their schizophrenic egomania helps them power through 100 hours of analyzing bytecode. Frankly, I also think Denuvo is paying Empress to stay away from new releases. Kind of ironic how people would complain in the past about pirates like they're 'stealing money from sales' or whatever, yet now there's Denuvo you're seeing money being funnelled directly from customers to crackers. It makes sense too because it's cheaper for Denuvo to pay pirates chump change to stay away, it's just never acknowledged because it destroys the supposed moral high ground of the anti-piracy crowd.

That's exactly it she's the only one capable and willing. She's not a super genius, only kids on certain notoriously goofy subreddit might think that. However what she's doing, does require some amount of knowledge, experience and skill that can land you a very good legal job already.

So the only reason to crack denuvo would be some sort of moral conviction. There are many causes worth fighting for and even going prison for if you have strong enough belief in your cause, video game DRM is not one of those things that's worth risking prison over, when you already have everything you need to do well in a legal job, cracking games for highly ungrateful and bratty pirate audience is just not worth it.

It's no wonder the only one currently doing anything about Denuvo is someone as eccentric as Empress.

[Soren]

Yílõng Má の投稿を引用：

Other people who are capable of cracking Denuvo already work for Denuvo lol. We don't talk about 3-4 years ago, when there were other crackers beside Empress. For now, Empress is the only one who's able to do it and not on Denuvo's payroll. And if Empress doesn't crack it, those filthy pirates won't be able to enjoy this game.

I just love seeing poor people who don't get to enjoy something that I can.

Most of those people are just emulating as an alternative to a PC version since most of them have an understanding that Empress won't do it.

I'd say they're making for good free beta testers of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ version of a game. But honestly that's kind of not true. The emu devs have no real reason to polish up the switch emu version of a game already available on PC and will no doubt end up neglecting it and just focusing on Nintendo titles.