Feature request on the steam deck 2, 2 usb-c ports

[Killer Rock]

Requesting 2 usb-c ports on the next iteration of the steam deck.

I use a USB hub with pdw port and a 100wh battery for some extremely long gaming sessions. And to expand the drive space on the deck. Well when I connect the 100wh batter to the deck or plug the already connected battery in to the charger the. The pdw protocols disconnect the usb-c hub. And all my attached usb devices(hardrives) momentarily disconnect creating other issues. The disconnect sadly is a feature of pdw protocols to prevent overloading the pdw device. A second USB-c plug should eliminate this issue and create more expandability. Thank you.

[Prezidentas]

your hub is crap. it should not reconnect like that, unless your hard drives are using more power than allowed by the standard.

[Killer Rock]

Originally posted by Škoda 14Tr:

your hub is crap. it should not reconnect like that, unless your hard drives are using more power than allowed by the standard.

Read up on USB-C PD standards. This is not crap USB hub it's a feature built in to the standard to prevent power overload. It's not the old USB power delivery standard that was limited to 15w. That can't efficiently charge the steam deck

[Prezidentas]

Originally posted by Killer Rock:

Originally posted by Škoda 14Tr:

your hub is crap. it should not reconnect like that, unless your hard drives are using more power than allowed by the standard.

Read up on USB-C PD standards. This is not crap USB hub it's a feature built in to the standard to prevent power overload. It's not the old USB power delivery standard that was limited to 15w. That can't efficiently charge the steam deck

The standard literally talks about Fast Role Swap, which should prevent disconnections on power negotiations. Now think about this - standard USB port should only supply 500/900 mA. Perhaps FRS isn't made for anything higher? Though this is just my speculation.

[Killer Rock]

Originally posted by Škoda 14Tr:

Originally posted by Killer Rock:

Read up on USB-C PD standards. This is not crap USB hub it's a feature built in to the standard to prevent power overload. It's not the old USB power delivery standard that was limited to 15w. That can't efficiently charge the steam deck

The standard literally talks about Fast Role Swap, which should prevent disconnections on power negotiations. Now think about this - standard USB port should only supply 500/900 mA. Perhaps FRS isn't made for anything higher? Though this is just my speculation.

Ok my brain is hurting at how limited your knowledge. And your trying to tell me my hub is garbage... ...

Let's try this

Ok We're not talking about USB-A standards. Which is 3.3v to 12v, 26watt max with a max 3Ah current allowed for charging devices. To get max watts 26w you have to switch micro controller. Otherwise you were limited to 500/900mAh. Using resistor to negotiate power. Ports like on you PC could supply up to 2.4 amp to power
multiple devices. However most were limited to 1.2amps and you had to get a powered USB hub. We have long sense moved past this.

USB-C had to move past that because depending on the situation the devices roll may have to switch. From being a power source(supplying power) to power sink(using power) And back. Sooo that means depending on the situation my steam deck is running off it's battery, an external battery, or a wall charger to an external battery. This includes the attach device which is 2 m.2 ssds in a in there own 10Gbps usb-c enclosure. And this switch can happen at any time. Now the deck can only supply up to 45w out it's charging port. Where my battery will supply up to 100w and my charger will supply up to 200w. Each one of the systems will do it at different voltages any where from 3.3v up to 21v. With up to 5Ah.

Ok sooo now we have that covered and we know you missed the hole section on power negotiation and what happened during power negotiation part and when NEW sources of are add or a device changes from a supply to a sink. What happens. Magic it's all works. And I posted this thread for nothing, bye....

Ok for real what happens as simply as I can put it. Power deliver, each device sent out a list of comments you can read up on them. the command list: GoodCRC, GotoMin, Accept, Reject, PS_RDY, Get_Source_Cap, Get_Sink_Cap, DR_Swap, PR_Swap, Vconn_Swap, Wait, SoftReset, SourceCapabilities, Request, SinkCapabilites, BIST, VendorDefined.
During the time while these devices are negotiating with this commands power is supplied to the device to support negotiation. but PD is not happening all device are in a low power state more or less. Because each device doesn't know whether it's a sink or supply state. Device that only sink are told to WAIT putting them on hold( a low power state if you will). Until each device that needs to know what power is available is happy. Then operation happen normally. When my battery or power supply gets DC or dies. Power IS switch on buy all source and each sink only device is told to WAIT again. Soo yes nothing ever really lose power as all devices switch to A form of supply mod. But that supply mod is only for power negotiation start over from square 1. Otherwise: you can get a overload... Its hard to come up with a good example. Lata say you have a exbattery, USB hub, the steam deck and second screen all running of on USB-C with power delivery. Now and the exbattery is powering everything(steam deck included) at 90w and the exbattery goes dead the steam deck can't possibly supply that even after the deck power need are removed (30w 45 sometime). Well that happens to me so I plug it in to my 200w changer that charger says I'm a 200w charger but I can only give you 100w the other device talk amount eacher and the battery is given only 10w use to recharge. After all devices agree. The 200watt charger slowly turns up the power to 100watts just in case there is a short or fault in the change of devices. Just in case there is a bad device that decides it's going to take more power then allowed or a bad USB cable. All this does happen fast very fast but it's not there no interrupt to data flow. And the interrupt to data flow is the issue the steam big picture mode or steam game mode. What ever you what to call it. Sees that wait command, and as momentarily as it is something time out. And the external drives get discounted. Not buy the PD but because they became unresponsive. Only for a moment. And steam game mode didn't like it. So now I have to switch to desktop mode and remap... Or repoints steam game mode to those folder locations. This was well documented byy many YouTube, and form post that it was very easy to lose a mapped drive from game mode and have to switch to desktop mode to get it back.

Now my reason for wanting two usb-c ports have changed. I have since moved to 2tb of internal storage and am using the hub far less. BUT a good replacement usb-c hub that I can strap to the side of my battery and steam deck cost 100$. What the cost of a second usb-c port on the deck probably less then 20$. And now my deck is one hub+wires lighter. And now with 4tb nvme drives finally a reasonable price. Yeah a second usb-c.

And if you still can't wrap your head around what's happening grab a steam deck install pre 3.0 steamos image I'm it. Buy 100$ usb-c hub then buy 5-6 more to test to see if you got a garage one. Not a steam dock spend another 100$ one. The buy 27200mAh battery with two usb-c ports one 60w and 100w ports or two 100w. Should set you back another 100$+. And two external nvme drives to plug in to the hub. Oh and a power supply/charger powerful enough to recharge is should be another 100$. And then you can tell me yea your hub was crap. I never had any issues. Oh ps I'm also using a hole bunch of magnets quick connects USB-C connectors there rated at 140w and 40Gbps. On each end of the USB c cables.

Ps this is my last reply to you unless. You provide me wrong or come up with on idea the not pulled out of two cheeks. Either way I was requesting a feature andy reason why not looking for the penut gallery. Thanks have a good day/night

[Prezidentas]

Originally posted by Killer Rock:

Originally posted by Škoda 14Tr:

The standard literally talks about Fast Role Swap, which should prevent disconnections on power negotiations. Now think about this - standard USB port should only supply 500/900 mA. Perhaps FRS isn't made for anything higher? Though this is just my speculation.

Ok my brain is hurting at how limited your knowledge. And your trying to tell me my hub is garbage...

look, if you want to act all cocky, at least don't call current as "amp-hours" and say that the Steam Deck can supply 45w out, which is not true. Steam deck port only supports 5 V 1.5 A USB-PD output to devices.
I see that you know a thing or two about power delivery. But where does FRS come in and how does it change things? Reading various datasheets (such as Texas instruments) it seems that FRS is made exactly to stop data transmission interruptions...
Also, could it be that your dock needs to rethink its power strategy because 7.5w out of the Deck is not enough for your hard drives?

[PsyBlade]

I'd proably only use one at a time but I would love to have one at the top and one at the bottom.

[Chiptune]

An other practical reason for this is it's impossible to use 4-pin DP alt-mode WITH extra USB slots.

To clarify, steamdeck supports DP 2.0 altmode, but you're never going to find a USB-C dock with USB ports that's supports the full bandwidth of that. You'll find direct USB-C to DP cables that do however. The reason for this is the moment you add USB lanes to the DP alt-mode, the DP signal becomes limited to 2 pins instead of 4 pins and you end up with limited bandwidth.

Even the steamdeck dock suffers from this. You can get 1080p@240hz if you plug a USB monitor directly into the steamdeck. But if you use the dock with USB peripherals and the charger plugged in, you'll be limited to 1080p@165hz. There's not a single dock or usb hub on the market that will support this because it's simply not possible.

Having 2 USB-C ports will allow us to dedicate one of the USB-C ports to displays, and the other for the usual charging/usb devices. Allowing us to use the full abilities of the DP2.0 alt-mode while docked.

[Prezidentas]

Originally posted by Chiptune:

An other practical reason for this is it's impossible to use 4-pin DP alt-mode WITH extra USB slots.

To clarify, steamdeck supports DP 2.0 altmode, but you're never going to find a USB-C dock with USB ports that's supports the full bandwidth of that. You'll find direct USB-C to DP cables that do however. The reason for this is the moment you add USB lanes to the DP alt-mode, the DP signal becomes limited to 2 pins instead of 4 pins and you end up with limited bandwidth.

Even the steamdeck dock suffers from this. You can get 1080p@240hz if you plug a USB monitor directly into the steamdeck. But if you use the dock with USB peripherals and the charger plugged in, you'll be limited to 1080p@165hz. There's not a single dock or usb hub on the market that will support this because it's simply not possible.

Having 2 USB-C ports will allow us to dedicate one of the USB-C ports to displays, and the other for the usual charging/usb devices. Allowing us to use the full abilities of the DP2.0 alt-mode while docked.

You can have a dock that has all 4 lanes of DP (lanes, not pins) and USB 2.0. I don't know if such dock is made but it's possible. Won't get any USB 3.0 though.

[Edu]

Just don't use a portable crappy amd apu PC as a desktop PC. You can also plug to your monitor some Samsung phones with their deck junk, why don't you use a samsung galaxy S324234 pro + double edge maxi turbo?
If you have a SD, you already had a Desktop PC, I can bet my ass yo do, because I don't believe you bought it without already having a long list of games for Steam bought.
It's funny how people wanted to have a PC to play like a handheld and when they got one they want it to use it a as a desktop PC.
Use a B-plug and forget about everything.