Went to the bios to do some Overclocking

[Mr.Gold]

But the CPU does not go over 3.5GHz even though I set the bios max at 4.0GHz. trying to squeeze some extra performance to make Helldivers 2 more stable.

[Haruspex]

The APU maxes out at 15 watts. In order to increase the CPU more, it's necessary to decrease the GPU, and vice versa.

[Mr.Gold]

Originally posted by Haruspex:

The APU maxes out at 15 watts. In order to increase the CPU more, it's necessary to decrease the GPU, and vice versa.

Not how it works. And I did pin my GPU to 1200 and I have an under lock overall so the deck has a bit more breathing room.

[Mr.Gold]

Anyone knows if this is a know issue?

[dream_smash]

t's easy to see with the performance overlay displayed, but even with the same operating clock, a cool CPU will use less power.
Whether you can get to 4.0GHz depends on the game, but in general it's easier to boost when it's cool.

[Mr.Gold]

Originally posted by dream_smash:

t's easy to see with the performance overlay displayed, but even with the same operating clock, a cool CPU will use less power.
Whether you can get to 4.0GHz depends on the game, but in general it's easier to boost when it's cool.

Yeah. Lvl 4 display. 60 something degrees. I have a good undervolt going of -30 -30 -30. Stable. Could probably push for more but honestly don't have a reason to. This also allows me to raise the undervolt on the CPU to -10 or 0 if needed. Problem is that changing the clock is not working as the CPU is still bound at 3.5GHz. raising to 4GHz would net a performance boost of about 14% in theory. Likely around 10% which would make games like Helldivers 2 stick closer to 30 FPS. The underclock already helped. But I wanted to boost performance a little bit more on the CPU.

[dream_smash]

Won't performance drop if I reduce the power?
If you want performance, you need to cool it down and increase power consumption - this is an unchanging formula for desktop PCs and steam deck alike.

That's why I'm dissatisfied with steam decks that can't cool the promised 15W.

[Mr.Gold]

Originally posted by dream_smash:

Won't performance drop if I reduce the power?
If you want performance, you need to cool it down and increase power consumption - this is an unchanging formula for desktop PCs and steam deck alike.

That's why I'm dissatisfied with steam decks that can't cool the promised 15W.

No. You reduce voltage (electric tension). This will translate in a difference in power. But not the overall power target. The APU still uses 15W. But individual components will require less power to achieve their maximum state. Because you are using less voltage. What this does is that the CPU and GPU are not fighting for resources as much to boost to maximum. For instance if the CPU and GPU both need 8W to get maximum boost, if a game is hammering both of them, the APU Will have to alternate either the CPU or GPU getting 1 less watt and throttling them. If you apply a -30mV on the CPU and GPU that translates to a 0.75W decrease so now the CPU and GPU only need 7.25W to boost to the maximum. So if a game is pushing both CPU and APU to the max it only uses 14.5W so both can go max boost without throttling. And you get better battery life to boot!

What are the downsides?
Well as long as the undervolt is stable, none. You are basically reducing the power envelope for the same performance. But of course you can cause crashes or even brick the system if not careful as you can starve the system of power.

For instance in Helldivers 2 with an undervolt performance clearly gets more stable. There is way less FPS fluctuation and even when franrate goes bellow. 30 FPS it stays more consistent giving it less of a jarring impression. And battery lasts longer. In a demanding game I can get an extra half an hour battery with a -30/-30/-30 undervolt.

[dream_smash]

Regarding the idea that "if thermal throttling causes FPS fluctuations, then it's better to cut that amount of power as surplus," if you're satisfied with the performance, that's fine.
If I needed to take any measures myself, I would strengthen the cooling to suppress throttling and find a point where I could stabilize at a higher FPS.
I was just giving an example because I was asked how to squeeze out additional performance.

The reason why the performance per watt is inferior to things like the Rog Ally may be largely due to cooling capacity.
If I have any regrets about choosing the Steam Deck, it's probably this aspect.

[Drak3]

Originally posted by dream_smash:

Won't performance drop if I reduce the power?
If you want performance, you need to cool it down and increase power consumption - this is an unchanging formula for desktop PCs and steam deck alike.

Reducing power does not automatically equate to reducing performance. AMD (and Intel) need all units of a particular sku to hit a performance ballpark, while being stable, and while having similar out of the box settings and power draw characteristics. That leads to a significant plurality (and often a majority) of the chips being overvolted, which causes more heat output than necessary relative to performance. Undervolting reduces that and allows chips to perform better before hitting that same thermal limitation, but how much you can tune the chip is dependent on the specific chip and you can't get the same results from every chip.

And no. The solution is not universally to just use a bigger heatsink. Different devices have different requirements, and for handhelds, lightness and skin temperature are higher on the priority list than min/maxing APU performance or keeping it cooler than actually necessary. So long at the APU is in safe limits (which it is), there's not much benefit to more heatsink when looking at the Deck as a whole and in its intended role.

[Mr.Gold]

Originally posted by dream_smash:

Regarding the idea that "if thermal throttling causes FPS fluctuations, then it's better to cut that amount of power as surplus," if you're satisfied with the performance, that's fine.
If I needed to take any measures myself, I would strengthen the cooling to suppress throttling and find a point where I could stabilize at a higher FPS.
I was just giving an example because I was asked how to squeeze out additional performance.

The reason why the performance per watt is inferior to things like the Rog Ally may be largely due to cooling capacity.
If I have any regrets about choosing the Steam Deck, it's probably this aspect.

The throttling I am speaking of is not thermal throttling it is power throtling. I.e. a device not hitting it's performance target because it doesn't have enough power. Lowering the voltage and by extension the power available for each component keeps the exact same performance but cooler and makes devices like the deck where the CPU and GPU are integrated, use their limited power envelope more efficiently. The OLED deck is pretty cool as it is. By default. So adding an extra large heatsink would do nothing. The temperatures while being pushed are usually 20 to 30 degrees below their max threshold. So there is no thermal throttling to speak of.


And again, with undervolting I get BETTER performance. Measurable performance. Because the system has more breeding room. So I am satisfied with the performance. It is better than stock so yeah... And I created this thread because using the option to OVERCLOCK the CPU is not working. I hit the 3.5GHz barrier and it sticks there. I was trying to get 4GHz for a 10% boost in performance or thereabouts.

[Mr.Gold]

Anyone knows anything about this? Why the bios OVERCLOCK seems to do nothing at all?

[Zen2Kill]

Originally posted by Mr.Gold:

Anyone knows anything about this? Why the bios OVERCLOCK seems to do nothing at all?

did you find a solution yet? i have the exact same problem as you are now

[Mr.Gold]

Originally posted by Zen2Kill:

Originally posted by Mr.Gold:

Anyone knows anything about this? Why the bios OVERCLOCK seems to do nothing at all?

did you find a solution yet? i have the exact same problem as you are now

No... I think we are stuck till next bios update.

[Falkentyne]

The CPU at 3.5 ghz is limited by some sort of driver limitation. If anything tries to manually set the GPU speed in the operating system, the CPU will be limited to 3.5 ghz. It will boost higher than 3.5 ghz IF nothing in the OS (e.g. Powertools) tries to set the GPU clock manually. (That is assuming already that you made some sort of mod to allow the tool to exceed 1600/3500, but this applies to any clock, whether higher or lower).

Manually allowing a CPU clock higher than 3.5 ghz when the GPU clock is changed requires a driver modification with the new CPU clock set after a script reinstall, in the linux konsole, but I was unable to get the packages installed, as it reported multiple errors, since the version number is newer than what is given in the example.

https://github.com/badly-drawn-wizards/vangogh_oc_fix

If someone actually gets this to work on SteamOS 3.6.19-3.6.21 (or main channel builds), please post precisely what you did, step by step, because not everyone here is good with Linux.

[Mr.Gold]

Originally posted by Falkentyne:

The CPU at 3.5 ghz is limited by some sort of driver limitation. If anything tries to manually set the GPU speed in the operating system, the CPU will be limited to 3.5 ghz. It will boost higher than 3.5 ghz IF nothing in the OS (e.g. Powertools) tries to set the GPU clock manually. (That is assuming already that you made some sort of mod to allow the tool to exceed 1600/3500, but this applies to any clock, whether higher or lower).

Manually allowing a CPU clock higher than 3.5 ghz when the GPU clock is changed requires a driver modification with the new CPU clock set after a script reinstall, in the linux konsole, but I was unable to get the packages installed, as it reported multiple errors, since the version number is newer than what is given in the example.

https://github.com/badly-drawn-wizards/vangogh_oc_fix

If someone actually gets this to work on SteamOS 3.6.19-3.6.21 (or main channel builds), please post precisely what you did, step by step, because not everyone here is good with Linux.

Yeah not going to do all of that. I saw this git repository and honestly, don't want to do anything that might brick the deck. Will wait for valve to fix this.