VRR — When?

[Citizen Cook]

As impressive as the Steam Deck OLED is it doesn’t support VRR.
Anyone know the reason for this? Is it something Valve can add via a future software fix or it the OLED retarded?

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Originally posted by Citizen Cook:

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

I literally don't see the difference. Just disable vsync

Have you used G-Sync or VRR before? It’s not something you see, it’s something you feel.

You can't feel it, except for the fact that G-sync/VRR is still higher input latency than no sync at all

The joke about this technology is that all it really tries to accomplish is to remove screen tearing while keeping input latency low, however at high refresh rates I don't see screen tearing. So I simply don't get the point

I think it got overhyped by console gamers because console games the vast majority of the time don't allow disabling vsync, in which case VRR is obviously a much better alternative

[Citizen Cook]

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

Originally posted by Citizen Cook:

Have you used G-Sync or VRR before? It’s not something you see, it’s something you feel.

You can't feel it, except for the fact that G-sync/VRR is still higher input latency than no sync at all

The joke about this technology is that all it really tries to accomplish is to remove screen tearing while keeping input latency low, however at high refresh rates I don't see screen tearing. So I simply don't get the point

I think it got overhyped by console gamers because console games the vast majority of the time don't allow disabling vsync, in which case VRR is obviously a much better alternative

I can assure you that it’s not overhyped. It’s a Godsend

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Originally posted by Citizen Cook:

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

You can't feel it, except for the fact that G-sync/VRR is still higher input latency than no sync at all

The joke about this technology is that all it really tries to accomplish is to remove screen tearing while keeping input latency low, however at high refresh rates I don't see screen tearing. So I simply don't get the point

I think it got overhyped by console gamers because console games the vast majority of the time don't allow disabling vsync, in which case VRR is obviously a much better alternative

I can assure you that it’s not overhyped. It’s a Godsend

I assure you I don't need to add more input latency to my games for no reason. Yeah, it's small, but what for? Godsend my butt, it does nothing at high refresh rates

[[?]legit]

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

Originally posted by Citizen Cook:

I can assure you that it’s not overhyped. It’s a Godsend

I assure you I don't need to add more input latency to my games for no reason. Yeah, it's small, but what for? Godsend my butt, it does nothing at high refresh rates

You do realize that the deck is not capable of achieveing high refresh rates?

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Originally posted by ?legit:

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

I assure you I don't need to add more input latency to my games for no reason. Yeah, it's small, but what for? Godsend my butt, it does nothing at high refresh rates

You do realize that the deck is not capable of achieveing high refresh rates?

90 Hz is high

[Drak3]

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

Originally posted by ?legit:

You do realize that the deck is not capable of achieveing high refresh rates?

90 Hz is high

He means FPS. Which it can’t in new AAA games.

What he willfully ignores (to push his narrative) is that many people don’t play exclusively the latest AAA games.

[[?]legit]

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

Originally posted by ?legit:

You do realize that the deck is not capable of achieveing high refresh rates?

90 Hz is high

Well, yeah, I actually meant to write framerates, lol. That would make more sense.

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Originally posted by ?legit:

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

90 Hz is high

Well, yeah, I actually meant to write framerates, lol. That would make more sense.

That's not what VRR is about. VRR syncs the frame buffer with the display, so it works at any framerate the display itself is capable of. That adds a smidge of latency, but nowhere near as much as Vsync. My point however is that the only benefit of VRR compared to no sync at all is to remove screen tearing, and I don't see screen tearing at 90+ Hz. If you do, maybe you have a point, but I'd wager most people don't.

So leaving the display at 90 Hz and not capping the framerate is a similar experience to VRR, with (imperceivable) screen tearing, and actually lower latency overall. Which is why I don't understand the obsession with VRR

[[?]legit]

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

Originally posted by ?legit:

Well, yeah, I actually meant to write framerates, lol. That would make more sense.

That's not what VRR is about. VRR syncs the frame buffer with the display, so it works at any framerate the display itself is capable of. That adds a smidge of latency, but nowhere near as much as Vsync. My point however is that the only benefit of VRR compared to no sync at all is to remove screen tearing, and I don't see screen tearing at 90+ Hz. If you do, maybe you have a point, but I'd wager most people don't.

So leaving the display at 90 Hz and not capping the framerate is a similar experience to VRR, with (imperceivable) screen tearing, and actually lower latency overall. Which is why I don't understand the obsession with VRR

You said that there's no need for VRR, because you don't really notice the tearing at high framerates. You are right about that. The problem is that the steam deck is a handheld and does not achieve high framerates.

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

Originally posted by ?legit:

You said that there's no need for VRR, because you don't really notice the tearing at high framerates. You are right about that. The problem is that the steam deck is a handheld and does not achieve high framerates.

No, I said I don't notice tearing at high refresh rates. It seems you have some misconceptions about VRR and Vsync so in order to discuss this with you I'd need to explain the basic concepts first

[[?]legit]

Originally posted by Trading McGone™:

Originally posted by ?legit:

You said that there's no need for VRR, because you don't really notice the tearing at high framerates. You are right about that. The problem is that the steam deck is a handheld and does not achieve high framerates.

No, I said I don't notice tearing at high refresh rates. It seems you have some misconceptions about VRR and Vsync so in order to discuss this with you I'd need to explain the basic concepts first

Okay, please go ahead.

[Schorsch Wadschinken]

You could have googled it. When it comes to rendering and display technology there's a lot to explain and I don't know your level of knowledge, so I'll try to keep it focused on just what you need to know for this discussion in hopes you can follow

The most basic thing you need to know is that the framerate of your game and the refresh rate of your display are two different things. Without Vsync or VRR, your PC renders images to the frame buffer independently of your display. The display simply takes and renders the image that is currently in the buffer. This is what causes screen tearing, as your PC may replace the image in the buffer while the display was currently in the process of rendering it, starting from the top left of the screen. So there will be a tear line at the horizontal position of the display where it was currently rendering as the image in the buffer got replaced.

As I said previously however, the higher the refresh rate of your display, the less noticeable is screen tearing. You can probably imagine that a display that refreshes rapidly quickly gets rid of any tear lines that had been rendered due to the image in the buffer being updated, because on the next refresh the whole image in the buffer is rendered again and the tear line is gone. Tear lines pass by so quickly you don't really have enough time to notice them; at 90 Hz, any potential tear line stays on screen for 11 milliseconds. That's a little too low for the average human to process and perceive, according to studies I've seen



But let's say you only have a 60 Hz display that can't do VRR. You either have to decide between perceivable screen tearing + higher input latency, or Vsync. Vsync increases latency harshly and it has an additional caveat; if the game doesn't render an image in time, the display will skip a frame, which results in a very noticeable stutter

So if you have a 60 Hz display that can do VRR, I see VRR as very useful. Because the latency doesn't increase as much as with Vsync and the display will never skip a frame to cause stutter, because the PC's rendering output is synced with the display's refresh rate. Which in turn also eliminates tear lines completely, just like Vsync

However, keep in mind that it's also an option to simply lock your game to a framerate that it can consistently handle. At lower framerates this may be preferable, because even though the stutter from the display skipping a frame is gone with VRR, the game can nevertheless appear to stutter when the framerate drops for moment

But anyway, beyond lower refresh rate caps, VRR simply loses its edge. As I said above, At high refresh rates tear lines don't stay long enough on screen to be perceivable under most circumstances, so it's simply overrated. This is why I say, if you want something very close to the VRR experience on a 90 Hz display, or even a 120 Hz display and so on, then simply leave the framerate unlocked, the refresh rate at max, and disable Vsync

[Citizen Cook]

It’s not just screen tearing, it’s stutter as well that VRR mitigates

[Shibby]

LMAO this guy acting like he would be forced to use it if it was available. Just turn it off if you don't want it. IDK why anyone would be arguing for less features in something. I don't need HDR or OLED either but they are very welcome additions to something I am buying.

[Citizen Cook]

Originally posted by Shibby:

LMAO this guy acting like he would be forced to use it if it was available. Just turn it off if you don't want it. IDK why anyone would be arguing for less features in something. I don't need HDR or OLED either but they are very welcome additions to something I am buying.

Agreed. More options are always a good thing, surely🙂