Steam Deck screen flickering at 40 Hz (probably PWM).

[Adravil]

Hello there!

I asked the Support yesterday about this problem, but was, excuse me my straightforwardness, dumped here without any answers. So here I am.

Steam Deck's screen is heavily flickering at a 40 Hz frequency point and that flickering is still noticeable in the range, approximately, from 30 Hz to 50 Hz. From my tiny experience such behavior may be, only may be, a symptom of the PWM-controlled backlight brightness of the screen. I definitely have an old revision Deck, at the very least because of the Delta fan, and that's why asked the Support (presuming the problem is indeed PWM-related, so softwareably-incurrable) if this problem was mitigated in the newer Deck revisions. But, again, received no answers. I am adding links to video recordings (shot by myself) on YouTube to show you approximately what it looks like. Videos were recorded at 1080p 240 fps, and saved at 30 fps; I have also put the web-synchronized clock in the frame, so you can see what's the real frequency of oscillation (240/30=8, every second during recording is being stretched to 8 seconds on the record).

The reason for creating this topic is (again, presuming the problem is indeed hardware-related) I want to know if such a problem had already been cured in the newer Deck revisions. And if not -- will it be in future ones and when. If it's somehow still software-related -- when it will be cured (currently sitting on the latest stable Steam OS version).

https://youtu.be/EoCWbVXSD2c
https://youtu.be/LwUCXvObEJw

P.S. Answering beforehand to folks who don't suffer from this problem -- I am happy for you and sincerely wish you all only a pleasant experience from using this device. I also sincerely like this device and use it daily, its purchase resurrected a rare feeling of holding a completely new and interesting piece of technology in my hands. But I am literally painfully locked out from using Deck with a refresh rate set in between 30-50 Hz, I can't look at the stroboscope without receiving a headache and eye pain.

Edit 1: removing the "backlight" word from the header and the body of the post after shadowboy813 brought an idea of the problem potentially being caused not by the inaccurately controlled backlight brightness, but by the too-slow refresh rate of the screen itself. Thank you shadowboy813!

Edit 2: also adding new videos, mentioned in the topic, here, at the top:
https://youtu.be/jYQCdcEoaTU
https://youtu.be/llYIOQHB-mQ
https://youtu.be/NAWYFrGGLcg
https://youtu.be/E6NttyQaVco

Update as of 2023-06-15:

* Thread on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/145whl4/steam_deck_flickering_at_40_hz_any_new_ideas_on/

* Support (quite expectedly) didn't confirm nor deny utilizing the LCD Backlight Strobing feature in the Deck's screen. Since symptoms are similar to what the RTINGS team wrote here
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/motion/black-frame-insertion
, I created a topic with the request to help investigate the problem with the screen
https://www.rtings.com/discussions/rIygqzomjCwbQCMx/steam-deck-s-screen-flickering-at-40-hz-pwm-lcd-backlight-strobing-something-else

* For those who suffer from the same problem, the best I can recommend is to bring up the refresh rate to 48-50 Hz or lower the brightness to 30-50%. It feels like also colors, shifted to the warmer side (display "night mode"), are having some impact too, but that impact is quite minor (both warmer colors and the brightness decrease only mask the problem, but brightness change is more effective).

* There's also a 1200p Deck screen custom project growing up now
https://www.deckhd.com/
, but, of course, who knows what it brings. 720p on 1200p may look blurry, it may have the same flickering problem since being limited to the same 60 Hz refresh rate, the replacement will surely not be easy, and all of that. But will see. At least some diversity may appear in the result.

[Fandhir]

Originally posted by Adravil:

Hi there! That's sad that you face the same problem but I'm at least glad that this topic receives more attention.
I'm using 256 GB Deck and, if that matters, "Model" on the back clearly says "1010". I've purchased this Deck from another user back in the August 2022. The saddest thing is that purely for testing I've purchased a newly manufactured Deck and found exactly the same problem there.
Feel free to ask me for more details, I'm all in for resolving this trouble. But I bet there's no big need to ask more -- you see it yourself.
One thing I have yet to try is to ask Kyle CryoByte33 about this. Not sure if he is a technical enough person, but he definitely may be interested.

Wonder if there's anyone with a 512GB model, if the problem is there as well, but I guess it's just the same... mine is the 64GB base model.

BTW I wrote a message to the team at notebookcheck.net, they often review laptop and phone screens and publish info on PWM and other flickering they have. Let's see if they reply.

Funnily enough, this server posted an article about Steam Deck where Valve claims they chose IPS over OLED for Deck to offer "experience without flickering" to their users. Ridiculous... this is a device with the worst flickering I've probably ever seen in my life (except for CRTs back in the 90s) :D

Steam support's latest message is that they need to study the problem further and will come back to me as soon as they have something new. Not sure they'll be able to come up with a miracle fix, but some people report that they were having headaches and after they received a replacement Deck all was OK.

I'd definitely like to ask the audience here - if you have a similar issue, please do create a ticket with steam support on this, so that the problem gets more attention.

Thanks.

[Adravil]

Welp, as expected, Kyle is busy with life (no response to my comment here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PYAbu0swi0

[[?]legit]

Why don't you play in 60hz?

[Adravil]

Originally posted by ?legit:

Why don't you play in 60hz?

Because on Deck some games are able to run not at 60 fps, but at 40 fps maximum. Since there's no 80 Hz option available I'm testing 40 Hz instead, and I'm not happy with the result.
Please add some details if you meant something else, my response is quite generic.

[[?]legit]

Originally posted by Adravil:

Originally posted by ?legit:

Why don't you play in 60hz?

Because on Deck some games are able to run not at 60 fps, but at 40 fps maximum. Since there's no 80 Hz option available I'm testing 40 Hz instead, and I'm not happy with the result.
Please add some details if you meant something else, my response is quite generic.

I guess your intention to save some battery? Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a 40fps game on a 60hz monitor.

[Adravil]

Originally posted by ?legit:

Originally posted by Adravil:

Because on Deck some games are able to run not at 60 fps, but at 40 fps maximum. Since there's no 80 Hz option available I'm testing 40 Hz instead, and I'm not happy with the result.
Please add some details if you meant something else, my response is quite generic.

I guess your intention to save some battery? Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a 40fps game on a 60hz monitor.

To save some battery as well, yes, but mostly I'm worried about the picture quality and the frame time stability (no stutters, in other words; smoothness).
Not like I'm trying to prove that you're wrong, but if so, I'm curious why VRR screens exist at all (and Deck's screen is not one of that kind) and why the Steam OS itself doesn't allow you to limit the framerate at 40 fps while the screen refresh rate is limited at 60 Hz.

[[?]legit]

Originally posted by Adravil:

Originally posted by ?legit:

I guess your intention to save some battery? Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a 40fps game on a 60hz monitor.

To save some battery as well, yes, but mostly I'm worried about the picture quality and the frame time stability (no stutters, in other words; smoothness).
Not like I'm trying to prove that you're wrong, but if so, I'm curious why VRR screens exist at all (and Deck's screen is not one of that kind) and why the Steam OS itself doesn't allow you to limit the framerate at 40 fps while the screen refresh rate is limited at 60 Hz.

SteamOS can limit the fps to 40. You could also limit the fps in game instead of steamOS.

You won't achieve the same effect as on a VRR monitor though. Limiting the fps to the monitor's refresh rate isn't enough to fix screen tearing.

And I'm not sure if that's the cause of your flickering issue. I wouldn't be surprised if it was yet another issue of the cheap screen, unfortunately Valve uses the worst possible screen.

I mean you've shown the fix yourself, just play in 60hz. Personally, I'd gladly chose the higher refresh rate over a bunch of minutes extended battery any day, simply because of the smoothness.

Does the flickering occur outside of games too? So for exmple on the home screen or desktop mode?

[Adravil]

Originally posted by ?legit:

Originally posted by Adravil:

To save some battery as well, yes, but mostly I'm worried about the picture quality and the frame time stability (no stutters, in other words; smoothness).
Not like I'm trying to prove that you're wrong, but if so, I'm curious why VRR screens exist at all (and Deck's screen is not one of that kind) and why the Steam OS itself doesn't allow you to limit the framerate at 40 fps while the screen refresh rate is limited at 60 Hz.

SteamOS can limit the fps to 40. You could also limit the fps in game instead of steamOS.

You won't achieve the same effect as on a VRR monitor though. Limiting the fps to the monitor's refresh rate isn't enough to fix screen tearing.

And I'm not sure if that's the cause of your flickering issue. I wouldn't be surprised if it was yet another issue of the cheap screen, unfortunately Valve uses the worst possible screen.

I mean you've shown the fix yourself, just play in 60hz. Personally, I'd gladly chose the higher refresh rate over a bunch of minutes extended battery any day, simply because of the smoothness.

Does the flickering occur outside of games too? So for exmple on the home screen or desktop mode?

No-no, the question is not simply about setting the fps limit at 40. I'm curious why, for example, at 60 Hz Steam OS allows limiting the framerate only to 60 or 30 fps, not 40, 45, random number. Why the refresh rate in Steam OS should be a multiple of the framerate? And at all, why refresh rate adjustment was added to the Steam OS after all? Please don't think like I'm asking you like some kind of Valve support guy haha, no, I'm just adding more details and meaning to my words.

You're right, it's not enough. I'm only trying not to add even more graphical problems.

Well... the whole point of this topic is/was to find out what's the root cause, haha. Setting the screen's refresh rate at 50 Hz and lower is kind of a way to reproduce the flickering bug. Do I really need to set the refresh rate at 50- if I want to play the game at 50- fps? That's a nice question, I was sincerely thinking that I do, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Playing at 60 Hz 40 fps? Hmm... Never tried this, but I maybe will. Thanks!

What about flickering in the Steam OS itself -- I'm not able to answer this because as I see Steam OS always works at 60 Hz. That's why when you switch from the game (running at 40 Hz) to the Steam OS, the screen turns black. And if you're going back to the game -- it does the same again. The screen changes the profile (typical Windows OS monitor profile I mean), the refresh rate. But I bet Deck's screen would flicker even in the Steam OS itself, because, if you try to run Windows on the Deck, and switch to the 30 Hz monitor profile, you'll see flickering. I've performed such a test, I've seen it.

[Prezidentas]

Wouldn't the fact that gamemode has forced syncing mean that 40 fps will get repeated frames at uneven intervals?

[Fandhir]

It is "noticeable" at any refresh rate, it's just that with higher refresh rate it is harder to perceive and I believe your visual cortex is noticing it subconsciously which may lead to other side effects (like headaches). This is a terrible flaw of the Deck, what a shame. Otherwise it's a great product. Who made such a poor decision regarding the choice of the screen? What is the reason it must be flickering? Color accuracy, motion blur avoidance? Or it's just a technological limitation of the screen?

For anyone who has seen flickering at 40 or 30 Hz only... it's not the way it seems, it is simply flickering at refresh rate and your camera is in sync when it is set to 60 Hz so it is not visible that easily. But it is there...

[Fandhir]

Originally posted by Škoda 14Tr:

Wouldn't the fact that gamemode has forced syncing mean that 40 fps will get repeated frames at uneven intervals?

Yes, exactly. And it may lead to stutter. So it is understandable Valve imposed such a limitation on the FPS options.

[Fandhir]

I'd like to ask - is there anyone in this thread who is getting headaches from the 512GB model? Is the 512GB model flickering the same way, even at 60hz (if you record using maximum brightness and slow motion)? Based on various discussions I am starting to believe the 512 model has an entirely different screen, not just a different cover glass...

Thanks!

[[?]legit]

Originally posted by Fandhir:

I'd like to ask - is there anyone in this thread who is getting headaches from the 512GB model? Is the 512GB model flickering the same way, even at 60hz (if you record using maximum brightness and slow motion)? Based on various discussions I am starting to believe the 512 model has an entirely different screen, not just a different cover glass...

Thanks!

I don't know the answer, but I'd like to add that it's not uncommon that manufacturers use different display panels from different suppliers for the exact same machine. So in theory that could be the case.

Unfortunately hwinfo doesn't reveal much information about the used diplay on the steam deck.

[Fandhir]

Originally posted by ?legit:

Originally posted by Fandhir:

I'd like to ask - is there anyone in this thread who is getting headaches from the 512GB model? Is the 512GB model flickering the same way, even at 60hz (if you record using maximum brightness and slow motion)? Based on various discussions I am starting to believe the 512 model has an entirely different screen, not just a different cover glass...

Thanks!

I don't know the answer, but I'd like to add that it's not uncommon that manufacturers use different display panels from different suppliers for the exact same machine. So in theory that could be the case.

Unfortunately hwinfo doesn't reveal much information about the used diplay on the steam deck.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

[Fandhir]

Can I please ask the audience here again - those having headaches or other similar issues with the screen: what version of the Deck do you have? My suspicion that the issue is limited to 64 and 256 models is getting stronger...

Thanks a lot.