Link Aggregation for streaming to Deck from PC?

[Doctor Poolboy]

Hello all! First wanted to thank you all for being a really welcoming, well-informed sub that's given me solutions to a lot of early Steam Deck troubleshooting that has only enforced my love for this device. In that vein I'm hoping you can help me optimize my streaming set-up to play games on my TV via Deck from my PC.

So I just got Baldur's Gate and I love it but I wish I could be playing it on the big screen with my roommate and friends. I have been running it via streaming to have better performance than what it allows on Deck on my TV but the connection has been spotty. I now have the Deck connected to the router via ethernet and the PC also ethernet connected to the same router, they're only a room away. I'm wondering if for the best connection, and the best quality, whether I need to use Link Aggregation on my router. I have turned it on using the router's settings, I also prioritized network traffic on steam on my PC... but the Deck is now having trouble connecting to the internet and network using the ethernet. Had anyone else tried this with any success?

[Mahjik]

Typically "Link Aggregation" is combining two router ports to one device to increase that single device's throughput. In short, you need a device that can support "Link Aggregation" with two network ports, then you run two cables from the single device to two router ports, then enable "Link Aggregation" on the two router ports so they work together.

[Doctor Poolboy]

Ah, so not really useful as part of a streaming setup it sounds like? I'm glad I asked, I only found some basic info on it from the routers materials and online that made it sound like it could create a more effective connection between the deck and my PC.

[Mahjik]

It could help your PC streaming if your PC has two network ports that can support Link Aggregation. You'd have a more consistent experience. However, typically Link Aggregation would be used for NAS or streaming servers (Plex).

[PsyBlade]

Link argegation won't help here. Each connecton will randomly use one of the cables. So link aggregation only works well if you have a lot of parallel connections where it averages out. With a single connection a in streaming it wont do anything.

[Mahjik]

Originally posted by PsyBlade:

Link argegation won't help here. Each connecton will randomly use one of the cables. So link aggregation only works well if you have a lot of parallel connections where it averages out. With a single connection a in streaming it wont do anything.

This is not exactly true. It depends on what routing protocol the router can use. Yes, there are some routing protocols that will just use it as failover, but there are some protocols that can use both lanes together to double the bandwidth.

[Mahjik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwuQ18-14iI

[Broseph Joseph]

Almost certainly will not make any difference. Ethernet link agg is just for increasing bandwidth. If youre wired already then almost certainly you have at least a gbit between the deck and your pc, which is about 20 times what the deck uses to stream even at the best quality setting. I would say if youre using any kind of ethernet already then network is not what is holding your back and you need to look elsewhere to make improvements.

Free tip, if you have an AMD in the pc then disable hardware encoding for the host, the hardware enc on AMD looks like ass regardless of what bitrate you give it.

[ronny.vasquezgt]

In LACP depends on the switch or router protocol, some works with a Active/Pasive link, so if you setup a Active/Pasive LA you will work always with only one link, you have to research which home devices works on LACP active/active, connect both links and benchmark the speed connection, find below a documentation from linksys with a configuration in a inhouse connection: https://www.linksys.com/support-article?articleNum=274487

[Skullmonkey]

Use Moonlight instead of Steam to stream, better latency and performance. Steam Deck having issues with connection is a persistent issue with the Deck.

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by Mahjik:

Originally posted by PsyBlade:

Link argegation won't help here. Each connecton will randomly use one of the cables. So link aggregation only works well if you have a lot of parallel connections where it averages out. With a single connection a in streaming it wont do anything.

This is not exactly true. It depends on what routing protocol the router can use. Yes, there are some routing protocols that will just use it as failover, but there are some protocols that can use both lanes together to double the bandwidth.

But not for a single session. LACP is going to increase the total available bandwidth but an individual transfer/session isn't going to be more than one of the links which is what PsyBlade is referring to. So it isn't going to really help in the case the OP is referencing but for a NAS, streaming server, etc. as you've noted it would be helpful as those are likely dealing with serving multiple simultaneous sessions.

[Mahjik]

Originally posted by PopinFRESH:

Originally posted by Mahjik:

This is not exactly true. It depends on what routing protocol the router can use. Yes, there are some routing protocols that will just use it as failover, but there are some protocols that can use both lanes together to double the bandwidth.

But not for a single session. LACP is going to increase the total available bandwidth but an individual transfer/session isn't going to be more than one of the links which is what PsyBlade is referring to. So it isn't going to really help in the case the OP is referencing but for a NAS, streaming server, etc. as you've noted it would be helpful as those are likely dealing with serving multiple simultaneous sessions.

This is partially true, as I already mentioned. Look at the video I shared and also ronny.vasquezgt post. LACP is only part of the picture. The routing protocol and the ability to use EtherChannels can turn two ports into a single channel (as viewed from the routing tree). However, it all depends on the capability of the router. Most customer big box type routers likely won't have the EtherChannel capabilities (or the more advanced routing protocols) which thing turns it into active passive only. I'm actually using a non-consumer based Ubiquiti switch that turns the two ports into an EtherChannel.

[PsyBlade]

- Etherchannel is just ciscos name for Link Aggregation, which is what OP was asking about
- as most people have them in the same subnet there's usually not any routing going on between PC and Deck
- for a routing protocol to be involved at all one would need two routing hops between them which is even rarer
- even then it wouldn't matter because it just sees a LAG as a single link (regardless of whether use static, LACP or Cisco proprietary)
- that guy in the video is either oversimplifying things to the point of lying or he has no idea of what he is talking about. A 4x100MIt LAG is absolutely not the same thing as a 400MBit link, exactly because a single flow is (with good reason) constraint to a single physical link.

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by PsyBlade:

- Etherchannel is just ciscos name for Link Aggregation, which is what OP was asking about
- as most people have them in the same subnet there's usually not any routing going on between PC and Deck
- for a routing protocol to be involved at all one would need two routing hops between them which is even rarer
- even then it wouldn't matter because it just sees a LAG as a single link (regardless of whether use static, LACP or Cisco proprietary)
- that guy in the video is either oversimplifying things to the point of lying or he has no idea of what he is talking about. A 4x100MIt LAG is absolutely not the same thing as a 400MBit link, exactly because a single flow is (with good reason) constraint to a single physical link.

^ this. LACP, LAG, MLAG, PAgP, EtherChannel, which is what the OP is discussing, are all layer2 no routing involved.

The video is comparing STP to LAG and is certainly oversimplifying.

Again, having 2Gbps of "capacity" is not the same thing as being able to do a single 2Gbps flow.

[Mahjik]

I think people on the internet like to argue for the sake of arguing. A few things and then I'm done with this conversation.

* The video was not comparing STP and LAG. The author was simply discussing how STP's purpose is to ensure no circular routes and remove duplicates. The author was simply implying if you could configure two routes to the same destination, STP would ignore one of them without an EtherChannel configured to view the two ports to the same destination as a single port.

* The use of protocol gets overloaded in the networking realm. STP is a protocol, LAG, LACP, (and many, many more) are protocols but they are for different purposes and different layers of a network.

* There is the configuration of bundle ports, then there is the "load balancing" configuration of the bundled ports. Those are two separate things:

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/switches/lan/cisco_ie3000/software/release/12-2_50_se/configuration/guide/ie3000scg/swethchl.html#wp1275731

I am referencing an enterprise level appliance so that means nothing for a consumer level product but that is just to prove a point. It's highly unlikely any consumer product will have enterprise level configuration nor support for so many different protocol implementations (i.e. rendering LAG at the consumer level not all that useful unless you are using for a NAS, Plex server or something similar which I did mention several posts back).

* Network speed and bandwidth are related, but different. Increasing the bandwidth can have a positive impact on latency if it was determined that was an issue. However, there are too many variables when it comes to house material construction, design, and how the purchased wi-fi router will perform in that environment. The OP may just need a good mesh network with some strategically placed APs.

* We are also making the assumption that the OP's desktop is wired and can support LAG. Not many PC's are designed for that as I mentioned in the initial post. IIRC, I don't think that can actually work with the non-Server Windows versions. Haven't looked into Windows 11.

* Lastly, FWIW, I was a CCNA many many years ago. I have no desire to go build a test lab, configure a test setup and post evidence. However, there are many videos and such showing it but none of that will matter because all of those are not using a cheap consumer level home router.

[PopinFRESH]

Originally posted by Mahjik:

I think people on the internet like to argue for the sake of arguing. A few things and then I'm done with this conversation.

* The video was not comparing STP and LAG. The author was simply discussing how STP's purpose is to ensure no circular routes and remove duplicates. The author was simply implying if you could configure two routes to the same destination, STP would ignore one of them without an EtherChannel configured to view the two ports to the same destination as a single port.

* The use of protocol gets overloaded in the networking realm. STP is a protocol, LAG, LACP, (and many, many more) are protocols but they are for different purposes and different layers of a network.

* There is the configuration of bundle ports, then there is the "load balancing" configuration of the bundled ports. Those are two separate things:

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/switches/lan/cisco_ie3000/software/release/12-2_50_se/configuration/guide/ie3000scg/swethchl.html#wp1275731

I am referencing an enterprise level appliance so that means nothing for a consumer level product but that is just to prove a point. It's highly unlikely any consumer product will have enterprise level configuration nor support for so many different protocol implementations (i.e. rendering LAG at the consumer level not all that useful unless you are using for a NAS, Plex server or something similar which I did mention several posts back).

* Network speed and bandwidth are related, but different. Increasing the bandwidth can have a positive impact on latency if it was determined that was an issue. However, there are too many variables when it comes to house material construction, design, and how the purchased wi-fi router will perform in that environment. The OP may just need a good mesh network with some strategically placed APs.

* We are also making the assumption that the OP's desktop is wired and can support LAG. Not many PC's are designed for that as I mentioned in the initial post. IIRC, I don't think that can actually work with the non-Server Windows versions. Haven't looked into Windows 11.

* Lastly, FWIW, I was a CCNA many many years ago. I have no desire to go build a test lab, configure a test setup and post evidence. However, there are many videos and such showing it but none of that will matter because all of those are not using a cheap consumer level home router.

Not arguing just to argue. The linked resource you provided says the same thing we are saying.

Originally posted by Cisco source-MAC address forwarding:

Therefore, to provide load balancing, packets from different hosts use different ports in the channel, but packets from the same host use the same port in the channel.

Originally posted by Cisco destination-MAC address forwarding:

Therefore, packets to the same destination are forwarded over the same port, and packets to a different destination are sent on a different port in the channel.

Originally posted by Cisco source-and-destination-MAC address forwarding:

With source-and-destination MAC-address forwarding, packets sent from host A to host B, host A to host C, and host C to host B could all use different ports in the channel.

Originally posted by Cisco source-IP address-based forwarding:

Therefore, to provide load-balancing, packets from different IP addresses use different ports in the channel, but packets from the same IP address use the same port in the channel.

Originally posted by Cisco destination-IP address-based forwarding:

Therefore, to provide load-balancing, packets from the same IP source address sent to different IP destination addresses could be sent on different ports in the channel. But packets sent from different source IP addresses to the same destination IP address are always sent on the same port in the channel.

Originally posted by Cisco source-and-destination-IP address-based forwarding:

In this method, packets sent from the IP address A to IP address B, from IP address A to IP address C, and from IP address C to IP address B could all use different ports in the channel.

All of these say that a single flow is going to go over a single link in the EtherChanel.

Both Windows 10 and Windows 11 support NIC teaming, however, as far as I know you have to do so via CLI/PowerShell. Most motherboard LoMs on consumer devices are either Intel or Realtek models which do support teaming via the Intel Network Connections Manager or the Realtek Teaming Protocol Driver. The most common limitation in the consumer space is consumer switches typically do not support 802.3ad.

FWIW, I'm a global data center manager and deal with this almost every day; but neither appeal to authority is relevant or strengthens any argument.