When will official dual boot with Windows be available?

[davidinct]

Hey,

I love my deck, I love my games and I even love I can add some other games that I own with it. I also pay for Game Pass Ultimate, it's one of the best deals in gaming if you have a Xbox and a PC. Streaming games is very laggy over a cell phone connection (I got my Steam Deck to be portable, right ?)

I need Windows to install all the Game Pass games. The options that are out there, do kind of work with a ton of bugs with it. I am just trying to use the deck for all the games I can.

I would love to see OFFICAL support and it says its coming, but, WHEN ?

[ClassicGOD]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

Really? All OS's? Have you seen someone hack iOS on there yet? Or Solaris? How many OSs do you think I can name that don't run on deck? Hint: a lot.

Solaris has x86 version, baring missing drivers it could be installed on Deck. Installer boots just fine.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

I literally can't imagine what you mean by this. What could be more official than Valve stating you can use windows and linking to the drivers that they developed for it?

All of the drivers bear manufacturers signatures. That means they were not developed by Valve. They were developed by OEM and Valve is just providing us with the download.

Also the drivers are not complete, they are the bare minimum to make Windows work.

If your definition of "support" is complete drivers than Windows is not supported on Deck, if it is "some drivers and it boots" then Android is supported on Switch as I can install it. Like you write the term support has different meanings but you can't claim someone abuses it just because they use a different definition of the word that you would like.

Valve in their own support article write "unable to offer 'Windows on Deck' support" ergo - Valve does not support Windows on Deck by one definition.

Hardware is capable of running Windows so it supports this OS by another definition.

Those are 2 different but valid meanings of the word support and you are trying to force your preferred one. And I can't tell why.

[maxRunner]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από #/DragonKeeper:

It's not my agenda, that's just how it reads in the write ups so that's how I take it.
You seem to want to blur the word support as to mean the os is fully supported on the sole basis that valve made drivers to help the installation of it.
End of the day steam deck is a pc, designed with SteamOS in mind and open for those that want to tinker beyond that and valve shouldnt be expected to support any other OS and anything that is provided is as-is and out of good will.

Nice turn around, I'm not the one talking in absolutes. You're the one who's been going around the last few days saying windows is not supported so don't ask questions or request features.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

Solaris has x86 version, baring missing drivers it could be installed on Deck. Installer boots just fine.

Sure, show me Valve's Solaris resources page.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

All of the drivers bear manufacturers signatures. That means they were not developed by Valve. They were developed by OEM and Valve is just providing us with the download.

https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-deck-windows-11-tpm-compatibility/

"There's work looking at TPM just now," Valve Steam Deck designer, Greg Coomer, tells us. "We've focused so much on Windows 10, so far, that we haven't really gotten that far into it. Our expectation is that we can meet that."

But it's not just down to Valve as the makers of the new handheld hardware, it's also something it has been talking about with AMD itself. As the creators of the custom silicon at the heart of the Steam Deck—the Zen 2/RDNA 2 APU—the red team is there to ensure that, at the fundamental level, the new tech is ready for Windows 11. 

"It's also a conversation that's going on with AMD," Coomer explains, "to make sure that, at the BIOS level, we can accommodate that. So there's nothing to indicate to us yet that there'll be any issues with Windows 11."

So basically Valve isn't involved at all.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

If your definition of "support" is complete drivers than Windows is not supported on Deck, if it is "some drivers and it boots" then Android is supported on Switch as I can install it. Like you write the term support has different meanings but you can't claim someone abuses it just because they use a different definition of the word that you would like.

I think my entire point is that support is a vague word that isn't very useful for describing what valve does with windows.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

Valve in their own support article write "unable to offer 'Windows on Deck' support" ergo - Valve does not support Windows on Deck by one definition.

Hardware is capable of running Windows so it supports this OS by another definition.

Those are 2 different but valid meanings of the word support and you are trying to force your preferred one. And I can't tell why.

No, you just made the point I've been trying to make all along.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

When we talk about supported OSes we are talking about which OS work on the device. Which have drivers. Which can be installed. Windows is supported. However, you can not get support for windows. Two different concepts using two different meanings of the words support. Just seems like an important distinction that people are glossing over, or even using purposely as a rhetorical strategy.

[d[-_-]b]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από #/DragonKeeper:

It's not my agenda, that's just how it reads in the write ups so that's how I take it.
You seem to want to blur the word support as to mean the os is fully supported on the sole basis that valve made drivers to help the installation of it.
End of the day steam deck is a pc, designed with SteamOS in mind and open for those that want to tinker beyond that and valve shouldnt be expected to support any other OS and anything that is provided is as-is and out of good will.

Nice turn around, I'm not the one talking in absolutes. You're the one who's been going around the last few days saying windows is not supported so don't ask questions or request features.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

Solaris has x86 version, baring missing drivers it could be installed on Deck. Installer boots just fine.

Sure, show me Valve's Solaris resources page.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

All of the drivers bear manufacturers signatures. That means they were not developed by Valve. They were developed by OEM and Valve is just providing us with the download.

https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-deck-windows-11-tpm-compatibility/

"There's work looking at TPM just now," Valve Steam Deck designer, Greg Coomer, tells us. "We've focused so much on Windows 10, so far, that we haven't really gotten that far into it. Our expectation is that we can meet that."

But it's not just down to Valve as the makers of the new handheld hardware, it's also something it has been talking about with AMD itself. As the creators of the custom silicon at the heart of the Steam Deck—the Zen 2/RDNA 2 APU—the red team is there to ensure that, at the fundamental level, the new tech is ready for Windows 11. 

"It's also a conversation that's going on with AMD," Coomer explains, "to make sure that, at the BIOS level, we can accommodate that. So there's nothing to indicate to us yet that there'll be any issues with Windows 11."

So basically Valve isn't involved at all.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

If your definition of "support" is complete drivers than Windows is not supported on Deck, if it is "some drivers and it boots" then Android is supported on Switch as I can install it. Like you write the term support has different meanings but you can't claim someone abuses it just because they use a different definition of the word that you would like.

I think my entire point is that support is a vague word that isn't very useful for describing what valve does with windows.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ClassicGOD:

Valve in their own support article write "unable to offer 'Windows on Deck' support" ergo - Valve does not support Windows on Deck by one definition.

Hardware is capable of running Windows so it supports this OS by another definition.

Those are 2 different but valid meanings of the word support and you are trying to force your preferred one. And I can't tell why.

No, you just made the point I've been trying to make all along.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

When we talk about supported OSes we are talking about which OS work on the device. Which have drivers. Which can be installed. Windows is supported. However, you can not get support for windows. Two different concepts using two different meanings of the words support. Just seems like an important distinction that people are glossing over, or even using purposely as a rhetorical strategy.

Right so valve don't even provide drivers they just provide the download?
So valve aren't providing any support for windows then they are just giving you tips on how to get the install to work.

So this confirms that windows is only supported by valve in the sense that you can install it, nothing else.

And yeah I'll talk in absolutes because words have meanings and context, that's how language works

[maxRunner]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από #/DragonKeeper:

And yeah I'll talk in absolutes because words have meanings and context, that's how language works

Then you will continue to be absolutely wrong.

[d[-_-]b]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από #/DragonKeeper:

And yeah I'll talk in absolutes because words have meanings and context, that's how language works

Then you will continue to be absolutely wrong.

You're now saying that words don't have meanings and context?

[CobraA1]

Well, this conversation went off the rails, heh.

I don't expect that a Windows update will break the drivers in the near future; Microsoft has been pretty good at not breaking hardware drivers. It functions well enough for my use.

[davidinct]

I think this discussion is funny. WAY OFF THE RAILS. On one side there are SteamOS fans, claiming it does not support Windows on the deck, and they are very firm on their statement. On the hand people are saying Windows is supported, and they are right. Windows does run and it runs really well.

I get it, I think SteamOS on the Deck is AWESOME, no question. The apps, the plugins and most games run great on the deck. EMUDECK is a god in retro gaming, blown away by it. I am NOT saying it's bad by any means, I LOVE MY DECK AS IT IS.

On the other side, I do pay for GamePass, I think it's a epic value in gaming. I AM PAYING FOR IT. I would like to use it on my deck along with SteamOS. The ONLY support for GamePass on SteamOS is streaming. I tried via a 4G connection a few times, and it was very laggy. I would call it almost unusable unless you have full 4g signal (and most of the world is not like that). 5G maybe better but, not all areas support it so no.

To fully take advantage of GamePass, I would need Windows, no other REAL option. Steam officially said, EVEN BEFORE the deck was released is that there would a dual boot option with Windows. STEAM SAID THIS and it's on their page.

I was ONLY asking if anyone has heard of a time frame of an official release.. Didn't mean to start a fight...

[@R+5]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από #/DragonKeeper:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

Then you will continue to be absolutely wrong.

You're now saying that words don't have meanings and context?

lol, words dont have meaning and context:
meaning is consequence of agreement; and context is consequence of how and when words are used. if one listener has a poor understanding of language, or ignores the actual meaning of the words used in a concrete context, that individual may infer an erroneous interpretation that maybe could make sense to him or her, but isnt the actual meaning of the message.

think about two people that are talking in english, and a different listener that doesnt know the first two joins. if the first two were close friends, even if one was australian, and the other from india, the words they use may or not have a special meaning to them, but also relative to their own personal background. whatever the third listener was hearing, may not mean what he or she thinks. then if the first two were spies talking in code, whatever they were talking could mean something entirely different to what could be expected from them, or their own background.

if you are going to keep the trolling sideshow, at least try to avoid repeating the same approach. its boring to read, and if you truly dont get what maxrunner wrote, then the problem may be that you are misunderstanding a lot of things and how to use words.

[d[-_-]b]

Tldr;. Says words don't have meanings and context. Immediately says they do have meanings and context.
🥱

[Murasakino Rin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από CobraA1:

Well, this conversation went off the rails, heh.

I don't expect that a Windows update will break the drivers in the near future; Microsoft has been pretty good at not breaking hardware drivers. It functions well enough for my use.

Windows 11 currently blue screens on the audio driver.

[d[-_-]b]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Murasakino Rin:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από CobraA1:

Well, this conversation went off the rails, heh.

I don't expect that a Windows update will break the drivers in the near future; Microsoft has been pretty good at not breaking hardware drivers. It functions well enough for my use.

Windows 11 currently blue screens on the audio driver.

🤣

[maxRunner]

OK, so let's have Valve settle this. If they post new drivers Windows 11 is supported, if they don't it isn't. I know where my money is.

[d[-_-]b]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από maxRunner:

OK, so let's have Valve settle this. If they post new drivers Windows 11 is supported, if they don't it isn't. I know where my money is.

CBA to get into it. But as it was said before. If valve are just listing the drivers for download but aren't making drivers. Then valve aren't supporting it themselves they are just passing the information on.

Let's see what happens

[maxRunner]

That's another simplification but I really just can't anymore. Sure, let's see.

[CobraA1]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Murasakino Rin:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από CobraA1:

Well, this conversation went off the rails, heh.

I don't expect that a Windows update will break the drivers in the near future; Microsoft has been pretty good at not breaking hardware drivers. It functions well enough for my use.

Windows 11 currently blue screens on the audio driver.

Works fine for me. I think I had a couple of BSODs on boot, but once in the OS I haven't encountered that.

But then again, I haven't played much audio, outside of Microsoft Flight Simulator. My software development is for an app which doesn't use audio.

Is this something you can easily reproduce?

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από davidinct:

To fully take advantage of GamePass, I would need Windows, no other REAL option. Steam officially said, EVEN BEFORE the deck was released is that there would a dual boot option with Windows. STEAM SAID THIS and it's on their page.

Might have missed it - but I did mention how I do it. I have Windows installed onto a micro SD card which I can pop in when I want to switch over.

From what I've heard, they're still working on native dual boot support.

Making dual boot work is a pretty specialized task. You're talking about the lowest level code in the machine, not many people even in the programming world touch that stuff. Not to mention quality control needs to be superbly high, as most of the protections of higher level languages are lost - and this is code that can't fail, because failing can mean bricking the machine.

Thankfully, the most difficult stuff should already be done, as GRUB and other bootloaders for Linux exist.

I imagine part of the problem is likely that the Steam Deck does not have the expected keyboard and mouse controls, and they need to develop some way to be able to select menu options with a game controller (including the deck's own built-in controls).

To make things even more complicated, the Deck might be connected to a TV and using a wireless controller (or keyboard or mouse), which means Bluetooth support. Dunno if they will really go that far for a simple boot menu.