The programming and SDK's - at machine leve?

[Catalyst]

Other than the supply line / resource thing having me hold out until i can find someone with a set delivery thats not months away i would like to know something on the dev-side

(aka the dark side of the scene?)

a console that is allowed rooting without being put in guantanamo is somewhat unheard of since Turing designed the ps-0 so it opens up visions of lightweight afternoon tea coding.

Now afaik most (if not all) assemblers write to the operating system, not the machine (for PC) for obvious reasons but in this case since the hardware is set and other than storage space will remain unchanged until the next model the instruction set is set too

Hence : ( " the question " ) , are there any plans to release something in the sdk that can write directly to the machine ? without the OS or even need for the os , more like "insert card to boot" and take it from there , which to some weirdows would make it irresistibe

a niche ofcourse and im sure since its rootable someone could write one

but as a hobbyist opening it up and prying the opcodes from the chips with a magnifying glass, pincers and a bucket of solder is both past my pay and braingrade

and thus ? it would be really nice if it could be demo-scene material

also for promotion actually and you could even hold your own Valve demo-contest (WITH A PRIZE ! or not b/c they usually dont do it for the prize)

...
will there be ?

nASM for steamdeck-root or something ?

(always with the weird questions)

[Zoot]

Originally posted by Catalyst:

write directly to the machine ?

What does this mean? You can write to hard drive or RAM like on any other PC. What is "writing to the machine", if not that?

without the OS or even need for the os , more like "insert card to boot" and take it from there

You mean like booting from USB? Yes, that is already possible.

[Screenager]

Dude it's no console, it is a PC. You can install and do whatever you want with it. Install gentoo, compile with GCC no problem. Install windows and compile with visual studio, also no problem. There is a completly normal UEFI BIOS and it's just normal X86 CPU.
There is no SDK cause you don't need one.

[ReBoot]

Check out Unity. It's far from the only SDK to write PC games with, but it's one I'd personally start with.

[Catalyst]

Originally posted by Zoot:

Originally posted by Catalyst:

write directly to the machine ?

What does this mean? You can write to hard drive or RAM like on any other PC. What is "writing to the machine", if not that?

without the OS or even need for the os , more like "insert card to boot" and take it from there

You mean like booting from USB? Yes, that is already possible.

i mean a total memory map and opcodes will it be released

modern assembler from what i came to understand when i looked at nasm writes to the operating system, not the machine, since pcs today are variable in chipsets ergo instruction set but a steam deck is not, its static so the instruction set is static

which means an assembler could write to the machine instead of the pre-installed OS which you install first

as i said, its a weird question in 2022 - just curious if anything like that comes with it or will be released, otherwise between appgamekit and unigine i can manage some high level object mangling probably already -

its a hobbyist question :)

[Prezidentas]

You can program it at a lower level the same way you can program a regular PC.

[Dan loeb]

I'm sure this might happen in time, but right now, even basic stuff on amd's drivers for Van Gogh are unfinished, I doubt we'll see proper teardown and documentation on that level when the device is still so hard to get, and unfinished. I also doubt there's as much incentive considering it runs Linux out of the box. Generally running Linux has always been a big drive, especially in the PlayStation console cracking scene.

[Catalyst]

Originally posted by the soupy:

I'm sure this might happen in time, but right now, even basic stuff on amd's drivers for Van Gogh are unfinished, I doubt we'll see proper teardown and documentation on that level when the device is still so hard to get, and unfinished. I also doubt there's as much incentive considering it runs Linux out of the box. Generally running Linux has always been a big drive, especially in the PlayStation console cracking scene.

on linuxgaming and other sites it was a real craze, yes, but i do wonder where all those people got one

maybe i'll find out in 2025 hahah

[Zer01neDev]

Originally posted by Screenager:

Dude it's no console, it is a PC. You can install and do whatever you want with it. Install gentoo, compile with GCC no problem. Install windows and compile with visual studio, also no problem. There is a completly normal UEFI BIOS and it's just normal X86 CPU.
There is no SDK cause you don't need one.

I think people still doesn't understand that.
https://youtu.be/P6CUQeHIxDA?t=13045

[Catalyst]

Originally posted by Zer01neDev:

Originally posted by Screenager:

Dude it's no console, it is a PC. You can install and do whatever you want with it. Install gentoo, compile with GCC no problem. Install windows and compile with visual studio, also no problem. There is a completly normal UEFI BIOS and it's just normal X86 CPU.
There is no SDK cause you don't need one.

I think people still doesn't understand that.
https://youtu.be/P6CUQeHIxDA?t=13045

no i did and that was what makes it interesting, a set hardware you are actually allowed to mod the os off without being sued
i doubt it will outplay my pc, lol -someone said its "reserve for €4' , not buy now for €500 get one in '25 so i actually might , even a broke bum like myself wont die from having €4 in limbo, im just still traumatized from waithing for my nvidia rtx 3 series for more than a year
nearly two

[BezaoBuilder]

Originally posted by Catalyst:

Originally posted by Zoot:

What does this mean? You can write to hard drive or RAM like on any other PC. What is "writing to the machine", if not that?


You mean like booting from USB? Yes, that is already possible.

i mean a total memory map and opcodes will it be released

It is a normal x86-64 processor with a normal UEFI BIOS running a relatively normal OS. Google "x64 opt codes". Pretty sure many Linux distros run unmodified on it. You program on it the same way as you would on a Linux PC with an x64 processor.

[Catalyst]

Originally posted by BezaoBuilder:

Originally posted by Catalyst:

i mean a total memory map and opcodes will it be released

It is a normal x86-64 processor with a normal UEFI BIOS running a relatively normal OS. Google "x64 opt codes". Pretty sure many Linux distros run unmodified on it. You program on it the same way as you would on a Linux PC with an x64 processor.

i got that far but thanks, so i guess it comes down to constructing arch-linux for steamdeck to optimize the whole flow, which might be above my current braingrade anyway. One of the most interesting machines released in the decade tho imo, if only for the free license "to kill" the os without legal consequences

[Taktloss]

Nobody really was sued for just changing the OS on any device how would one even know ;)
Still not sure what you try to accomplish since you dont really need to hack anything on the Steam Deck.

[Catalyst]

an eye of the beholder thing i suppose

https://wholesgame.com/news/sony-sue-hacker-who-sold-jailbroken-playstation-4-consoles/

i cant say i didnt screw open all my xboxes on the first week to see if i could "fix"t them either (and void warranty sadly)

its a bit of a pov-thing as well probably

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/3/23153504/right-to-repair-new-york-state-law-ifixit-repairability-diy

i personally cant imagine anything like "the right to" repair even being on the table here (even here in this soviet belge-hole) but in plenty of places it seems to be

and what im trying to accomplish , nothing really, just curious from a hobbyist perspective

how deep it goes for instance in terms of demo-programming, since its set hardware you could program at machine-level like you do for a c64 (the hardware and instructions never change, you dont need the installed OS to intermediate for you or some compiler to try and compile it and even today if you have a compiler it doesnt write to the machine it writes to the OS nASM for windows and linux is different)

SO .. im not trying to accomplish anything, i was just curious if a whole map of all instructions would be available including memory maps and whatnot so you could literally write "level zero" programs (something only freaks do today, i dont debate that)

out of curiosity but seeing as the supply is wrecked and very likely will be its gonna be more of a collectors item and not "the new 64"

maybe thats explains my weird ramblings a bit :p

[Prezidentas]

I really don't understand what are you trying to do. It's an IBM PC-compatible x86-64 device. Programming to it is the same as programming a regular computer.

[ReBoot]

Just stumbled upon something interesting:
https://www.techspot.com/news/94835-play-doom-directly-motherboard-bios-update.html

That's a lower level than PC games get written, that's even a lower level than PC demos get written, but it's (almost) as low-level as things get. Maybe the OP would like to walk down this route.