Are there enough tomes not focused on magic?

[Rhalius]

Seeing how classes are kind of gone, I really hope we will get plenty of options for tomes that are not about magic.

Like maybe a smithing tome or such that makes units more armoured instead of turning them into demons or made of metal. Like the mounts becoming armoured mounts and a feudal knight in chainmail now wearing plate mail. Stuff like that.

Or a rogueish tome that is all about improving ambush tactics.

Or an assassination tome that adds an assassin unit, poisoned blades and other stuff in that direction.

Especially with a champion hero I figure I might want to keep my people more normal and not evolving into a different species, but still building up advantages without altering their genetics.

[Sifer2]

Well the more information I get on the game the more it almost feels like the Champion option was a late addition. Storyline wise your supposed to be apart of the Godir Wizards conquering different realms. No matter what your character lives in a Wizards Tower. So all forms of society progression being based around magical tomes is just kind of how the game is based.

Good news is the Empire, and Ashes DLC makes it sound like we are getting some kind of pushback against the Godir. It mentions fusing technology with magic to fight back.

[Terrkas]

So far i saw new units to build, spellf for tactical and strategic map, transformations for your people and enchantments for your units weapons.

If you want you can check here
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tomes-of-magic-info-compilation.1566567/

It has all the Informations the community has about known tomes.

[blackhand_lost]

Originally posted by Sifer2:

Well the more information I get on the game the more it almost feels like the Champion option was a late addition. Storyline wise your supposed to be apart of the Godir Wizards conquering different realms. No matter what your character lives in a Wizards Tower. So all forms of society progression being based around magical tomes is just kind of how the game is based.

Good news is the Empire, and Ashes DLC makes it sound like we are getting some kind of pushback against the Godir. It mentions fusing technology with magic to fight back.

Champion doesn't nesessarily mean a warrior-like type of hero, it just means his origin. Champion is an outstanding hero who ascended from the ranks of his nation to lead it, then he gained access to that...interdimentional hub and became Godir. That doesn't mean Champion is not a powerful wizard or smth.

[Rhalius]

Champion can certainly be a wizard too, but I like having plenty of other options as well.
To get stuff more in the direction of the warlord, rogue and juggernaut classes from AOE3.

It would be a great loss if we don't get much of that back through tomes.

[Szeron]

I suspect it's probably better to think of Tomes as 'concepts' instead of 'magic', 'class', etc.

It does look like several of the class mechanics from AoW3 return in AoW4 via the Tomes. Warbreeds come from a T3 Chaos Tome( of Devastation), Theocrat empire upgrades/spells have analogs in the Order Tomes, etc.


Otherwise, I think a lot of it comes down to abstraction. For example, I have a buildcraft of a Feudal human empire that takes Pyromancy as their first pick because it gives them access to flaming arrows - I have zero interest in the fire elementals and have no plans to use them(and there's nothing that will force me to either).

[blackhand_lost]

Originally posted by Rhalius:

Champion can certainly be a wizard too, but I like having plenty of other options as well.
To get stuff more in the direction of the warlord, rogue and juggernaut classes from AOE3.

It would be a great loss if we don't get much of that back through tomes.

some of the warlord-style stuff is in the chaos branch, rogue and dreadnought stuff aren't in the game at launch.
Dreadnought is coming in 2nd dlc, as of rogue-I've been wandering myself. Maybe it's in the 4th eldritch dlc, but its contents are kinda vague right now. Or they'll make up smth new entirely

[Rhalius]

Some rogue stuff could work with dark, chaos or nature stuff depending on the direction it takes, but I'd certainly want to see that too.

Either way I do very much look forward to the game. This is just something I couldn't help but notice.

[GrandMajora]

ALWAYS MAGIC, ALL THE TIME!

[Gaius]

Originally posted by Rhalius:

Some rogue stuff could work with dark, chaos or nature stuff depending on the direction it takes, but I'd certainly want to see that too.

Either way I do very much look forward to the game. This is just something I couldn't help but notice.

I feel rogues will be more like the Diablo or WoW type, with shadow magic, than D&D, with, er... sneak attack once per turn and one more bonus action?

But joking aside, I feel a game where you always have magic tomes will invariably depend on magic for balance. Of course, some books will be more relevant to buff units, etc, but in the end of the day a rogue is a unit, not a whole society - and there's a lot of tools outside of the tome system to make a nation's rogues better - I.E, sneaky and quick reflexes perks, shadow walkers society trait, etc.

Frankly I can't wait to start experimenting and creating those nations :)

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Gaius:

I feel rogues will be more like the Diablo or WoW type, with shadow magic, than D&D, with, er... sneak attack once per turn and one more bonus action?

Based on last stream, I don't think the game has classes this time around. Seems we have more freedom and leeway with choosing our leader's skills at leveling up. Notice how Trixie was able to choose Lightning Weapons and several martial class abilities, even though Mystics primarily focus on ranged attacks and casting spells.

[Balekai]

All tomes are very "High Magic" in the way we classify fantasy settings like Conan being low magic. Basically all leaders are godly wizards/sorcerers in one way or another. That means even ordinary mundane melee/ranged units and empires will eventually be infused with lots of epic enchantments that make them better. Technology isn't really a thing when it comes to the tomes themselves (instead of chainmail becoming platemail, the Godir just give their people metallic skin).

As mentioned though the DLC Empire and Ashes seems to be hinting at an AoW Dreadnought like culture/tome(s) more along the lines of Magitek in 90s FF games:

"Empires and Ashes – The empires of mortals resurge after the devastation brought forth by the Wizard Kings! In the Age of Wonders 4 “Empires and Ashes” expansion, players fuse magic and steel to unleash devastating war machines to drive the Godir back into the Astral Sea. This full expansion, slated for launch in Q4 2023, includes a new Culture, new Tomes of Magic, new Empire Building options and a new Story Realm."

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Balekai:

All tomes are very "High Magic" in the way we classify fantasy settings like Conan being low magic. Basically all leaders are godly wizards/sorcerers in one way or another. That means even ordinary mundane melee/ranged units and empires will eventually be infused with lots of epic enchantments that make them better. Technology isn't really a thing when it comes to the tomes themselves (instead of chainmail becoming platemail, the Godir just give their people metallic skin).

I mean, if you went through the shadow gate to learn powerful secrets of magic, got trapped there for who knows how long, then came back only to focus on science and technology, you kind of wasted your time.

For those wanting a path that focuses more on the physical side of things, the Materium Affinity seems to be the way to go. In addition to Enchanting, it's also got tomes of Siegecraft and other research that focuses more on physical enhancements.

[MrButtermancer]

You are complaining about a lack of nonmagical options in a game who's primary selling point is developing your wizard leader (champions, dragons, and wizard kings are all wizards) by literally choosing magic tomes.

You can choose materium tomes, which focus on artificing and manipulating physical matter. You can hold out for Empires and Ashes, when the Dreadnought elements from the last game are likely to bequeath quasi-magical tech.

Or you can cut your losses and realize magic's a fundamental cornerstone of this installment and play a game that can give you what you're asking for, which, in the circumstances, seems a little silly.

A reasonable person won't expect to avoid using magic in a game where the fundamental conceit is that you are playing a wizard.

[BBB]

Idk, the fundamental concept of the game is culture + tomes.

Not at all unreasonable to expect some of that to be non magical.

And the fact that the devs are looking to add precisely those back in with one of the dlcs just proves the point.