conjure vines spell is crazy OP

[ImBlackMagic]

that, have you noticed? you can cast it every turn and the AI will turn to attack the vines first while you attack with battle mage/ranged units

it's too egregious, bordering an exploit imo, I had a bone dragon prefer attack a vine behind him than one of my actually valuable units right in front, is that intended?

[Star Paladin]

Ya, I did a safe auto-battle and lost. watched it to see why, and I see my units going after the vines that were nowhere near the actual enemy.

[GrandMajora]

The vines can not inflict damage, but every turn an enemy is next to one, they have a chance of being immobilized.

General consensus seems to be that immobilizing enemies is extremely useful from a tactical perspective. So the AI might be registering them as a priority target instead.

[BigJ]

It makes killing momentum heroes unstopable, it's almost as if everything has a counter, high status res also makes them quite irrelevant, as well as aoe.

[Ice-Nine]

Honestly, the turn-based combat in this game is very subpar and by far the weakest link. I'm surprised anyone actually does it instead of autobattling everything.

[ImBlackMagic]

I usually autocombat everything, but high risk battles (gold ruins usually) I have to get my hands dirty

I won a very risky battle on the back of the vines alone (2 bone dragons, a watcher, the forbidden tome dude, and 2 filler units), I had 1 melee unit, 2 support (a nymph seduced a bone dragon, because that's balanced as well), 2 battle mages and the hero (that was support role as well), vines every other turn, enemies go blasted into oblivion while distracted by the vines, totally balanced no exploits needed

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Honestly, the turn-based combat in this game is very subpar and by far the weakest link. I'm surprised anyone actually does it instead of autobattling everything.

During the 3rd Story Realm mission, I was faced with an auto battle which the game said was "Impossible" for me to win.

I decided to try my hand at doing it manually, and not only did I WIN the fight, but I also managed to do it without suffering any casualties.

While having an option to auto resolve battles in a turn based strategy game is always nice, it's pretty common for the AI's simulation to become woefully incompetent as the game goes on.

Such is the case with the Heroes of Might and Magic series, as well as Wrath of the Righteous. I assume there are many other such games in that genre too, but I can't think of their names at the moment.

[Atma]

Conjure vines isn't OP due to it's effect. It's OP because it makes the AI waste turns on destroying the vines, while your army pounds it hard. It's an exploitable spell that makes me feel dirty when I use it.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by Atma:

Conjure vines isn't OP due to it's effect. It's OP because it makes the AI waste turns on destroying the vines, while your army pounds it hard. It's an exploitable spell that makes me feel dirty when I use it.

so issue isn't the spell but the A.I behavior.

[Unn4m3d (♥AUT♥)]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Honestly, the turn-based combat in this game is very subpar and by far the weakest link. I'm surprised anyone actually does it instead of autobattling everything.

During the 3rd Story Realm mission, I was faced with an auto battle which the game said was "Impossible" for me to win.

I decided to try my hand at doing it manually, and not only did I WIN the fight, but I also managed to do it without suffering any casualties.

While having an option to auto resolve battles in a turn based strategy game is always nice, it's pretty common for the AI's simulation to become woefully incompetent as the game goes on.

Such is the case with the Heroes of Might and Magic series, as well as Wrath of the Righteous. I assume there are many other such games in that genre too, but I can't think of their names at the moment.

I had sometimes the opposite experience. Also Story 3, the last battle. My armies a strength of around 3300, the enemy around 3600. Autobattle won the fight without a single casualty on my side.


But it should be noted that on Mission 3 the Berserk modifier can heavily influence the outcome. It might have been unlucky on Auto for you, but went better when you fought yourself.

[Gundalf]

The AI seems to priotize killing units and since the vines a pretty much a one hit kill they get focused.

[Caz]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The vines can not inflict damage, but every turn an enemy is next to one, they have a chance of being immobilized.

General consensus seems to be that immobilizing enemies is extremely useful from a tactical perspective. So the AI might be registering them as a priority target instead.

The AI will prioritize the closest units, with a very tiny weight given to specific unit types. Essentially, when the AI is deciding its targets, about 95% weight is given to proximity to decide the target. That's why "throw away units" are so crazy OP right now. Anything that's not part of your permanent stack becomes exponentially more useful and powerful just by its existence on the field.

[Slapstick]

Yes, it's absolutely stupid. I discovered it on my third game when I went nature for the first time. It is single handedly allowing me to win fights I should be losing with no losses. The AI just don't attack my units.

It 100% needs to be changed to just creating a field with difficult terrain that doubles movement cost.

[Caz]

Originally posted by Slapstick:

Yes, it's absolutely stupid. I discovered it on my third game when I went nature for the first time. It is single handedly allowing me to win fights I should be losing with no losses. The AI just don't attack my units.

It 100% needs to be changed to just creating a field with difficult terrain that doubles movement cost.

So make the spell completely useless? No thanks. The AI just needs to be tweaked to not focus so much on what's closest to it.

[Orphan]

Yep very cheesy move, notice it too. There is also a thing (maybe a spell I don't remember exactly) making get +5 battle spell cast recovery when an unit is killed and it's also work with these vines so even if the spell cost a lot you get these battle cast back when it gets killed and you can cast them forever

[Cellar_Cat]

It just seems like an AI priority thing. Making it into some AOE slow kind of effect would be more annoying when it's used against a player... right now you have the option of choosing when and if there's any benefit to killing a vine.