Suikoden 2: Fischer Price Edition

[Lunarcheese]

Let me say, first and foremost, that Suikoden 2 is my favourite RPG of all time. Bar none. I have the original PS1 copy in near-mint condition. So going into this, I wanted nothing more than for it to live up to it's predecessor. And it does that... occasionally.

This complaint is concerning how often it pulls it's punches. Nothing has any weight to it. No one dies, and no acts have any lasting effects. The hero's village gets burnt down... but everyone is okay and all the houses are still in tact. His rival's friend's brother gets sacrificed... but it's just his arm, which he replaces. The Castle cook's mentor is killed in front of you and him.... but if you talk to him right afterwards, he doesn't care in the slightest.

I WANTED the emotional impact and the stakes that Murayama has shown he can deliver in the past, but every single time thus far (I'm just done recruiting Seign), it's been a soft, kid-safe landing to make sure nothing of consequence was actually lost. Thank god the music is mostly on point with Flags of Brave playing during the first duel so I could briefly feel something akin to what Suikoden 2 delivered, but my god, why is everything played so safe?!

[Yílõng Má]

Not everyone likes people dying. I prefer no death for any games, mangas, and movies that I enjoy.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Originally posted by Lunarcheese:

Let me say, first and foremost, that Suikoden 2 is my favourite RPG of all time. Bar none. I have the original PS1 copy in near-mint condition. So going into this, I wanted nothing more than for it to live up to it's predecessor. And it does that... occasionally.

This complaint is concerning how often it pulls it's punches. Nothing has any weight to it. No one dies, and no acts have any lasting effects. The hero's village gets burnt down... but everyone is okay and all the houses are still in tact. His rival's friend's brother gets sacrificed... but it's just his arm, which he replaces. The Castle cook's mentor is killed in front of you and him.... but if you talk to him right afterwards, he doesn't care in the slightest.

I WANTED the emotional impact and the stakes that Murayama has shown he can deliver in the past, but every single time thus far (I'm just done recruiting Seign), it's been a soft, kid-safe landing to make sure nothing of consequence was actually lost. Thank god the music is mostly on point with Flags of Brave playing during the first duel so I could briefly feel something akin to what Suikoden 2 delivered, but my god, why is everything played so safe?!

I can agree on a lot. It feels like they aimed way to low into the ages. One of my biggest pet peeves is how you can just wander right into occupied territory and play beigoma on the streets with Imperial guards all around.

Originally posted by Yílõng Má:

Not everyone likes people dying. I prefer no death for any games, mangas, and movies that I enjoy.

Yes, of course. But it could still be closer to Suikoden than what it is now. There is no consequences at all. And Suikoden did have pretty harsh realities. Parents dying, old memories flaring up. If you dont like it, perhaps Suikoden is not for you. Bit Eiyuden got sold as a spiritual Suikoden but its not even close. I would still say, give Suikoden I and II remastered a chance, look at some videos when its finally released, if ever.

[7 Vite]

The game is decent, many things work wonderful. Other things, not so much.
Above all, we need better writers for the sequels. The magical aspect must also have more weight. This thing about rune lenses seems like an agnostic version of magic to me.
I'm pretty confident it will be good, the developers listen to suggestions from the fanbase

[Minneyar]

Originally posted by Yílõng Má:

Not everyone likes people dying. I prefer no death for any games, mangas, and movies that I enjoy.

This is fine, but maybe that means war stories just aren't for you. Wars involve senseless death and destruction by their nature. War stories don't need to wallow in that -- the Suikoden games showed just enough to make an emotional impact -- but a story that removes it altogether is toothless. Without any sense of loss, you also have nothing to fight for.

[NewMoonShadow]

People by and large overestimate how "dark" the first Suikoden was. I can't speak to two (I haven't played it all the way through since the PS1 was the current gen) but having played Suikoden 1 all the way through within the last few years, I can say this game feels a lot like it. Suikoden really didn't spend THAT long dwelling on dark subject matter. Probably the most "mature" aspect about it was the death of Gremio (which is temporary if you play it right) and the fact that random people can die in the war scenes, which is honestly more annoying than atmospheric because it either irrevocably messes up your game or forces a restart (This is a GAME first and foremost).

This game perhaps has more quippy dialogue and a more cartoon-ish feel overall, but I feel like that has more to do with it getting a more thorough localization VS the rather questionable translation that was the standard in the 90's.

Besides, this game has a race of Sandshark People in it. If you thought a game with THOSE in it was going to be grimdark war journals, I don't know what to tell you.

[Slatepaws]

Originally posted by Lunarcheese:

Let me say, first and foremost, that Suikoden 2 is my favourite RPG of all time. Bar none. I have the original PS1 copy in near-mint condition. So going into this, I wanted nothing more than for it to live up to it's predecessor. And it does that... occasionally.

This complaint is concerning how often it pulls it's punches. Nothing has any weight to it. No one dies, and no acts have any lasting effects. The hero's village gets burnt down... but everyone is okay and all the houses are still in tact. His rival's friend's brother gets sacrificed... but it's just his arm, which he replaces. The Castle cook's mentor is killed in front of you and him.... but if you talk to him right afterwards, he doesn't care in the slightest.

I WANTED the emotional impact and the stakes that Murayama has shown he can deliver in the past, but every single time thus far (I'm just done recruiting Seign), it's been a soft, kid-safe landing to make sure nothing of consequence was actually lost. Thank god the music is mostly on point with Flags of Brave playing during the first duel so I could briefly feel something akin to what Suikoden 2 delivered, but my god, why is everything played so safe?!

Spot on. This is what i've been noticing with the game as i play through it with what little time i have to do so.
On top of the story beats that completely kill the pacing. You have this event you're supposed to take seriously, an attempt was made to be 'emotional and impactfull'. but less than a sentence later? You're told to go find more people and have to go play a card game AND a bayblade/pokemon mix that is basically just RNG the game.

Neither of the first two Suikoden were perfect or grim-dark. They had their flaws, Both coming out about the time the 'guide it' era of console gaming came about. Yet the one thing they did do right was the story and how much more alive it felt.

I think what we have here is a case of a single person who was a part of a project getting in his head 'he' is what made it what it was. When in fact, while he contributed to it, others shaped it just as much, if not tempering or getting him to compromise on things.

For example this game has too many mini-games, sub games, that 30 hours in i'm still getting 'tutorial screens' for 'new' mini-games or mechanics and/or aspects of sub-games(like the army sub-game).

[Yílõng Má]

Originally posted by Minneyar:

Originally posted by Yílõng Má:

Not everyone likes people dying. I prefer no death for any games, mangas, and movies that I enjoy.

This is fine, but maybe that means war stories just aren't for you. Wars involve senseless death and destruction by their nature. War stories don't need to wallow in that -- the Suikoden games showed just enough to make an emotional impact -- but a story that removes it altogether is toothless. Without any sense of loss, you also have nothing to fight for.

Trails series is dope and highly praised without many deaths lol.

[Zio]

Before I spend way too much time on this, two quick notes:
1) someone's death or other tragedy as motivation is one of, if not THE cheapest and laziest motivation of all time. It's a horribly boring old trope. People should be shown more with motivations that don't require the sh*t to hit the fan first.

2) if you need the aforementioned or something else more among the lines of grim dark (read edgy bs) fantasy so badly, maybe Eiyuden Chronicle is not for you.

[The_Box]

I honestly kind of agree. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate it, but it does feel like there aren't ever any real stakes. Every time you get the impression there's some serious stuff on the line, it becomes very clear there was never any real dangers.

I mean it's kinda telling that the stakes and consequences in the cooking minigame side thing are higher and more consistently serious than the actual war that's going on, at least in regards to what we the player get to witness.

I'm not saying it should have been really edgy and grim and some sort of Hacksaw Ridge war story, but it did consistently feel like everybody involved was playing at war rather than actually fighting one.

[ShinRaPresident]

The best description of the game is Suikoden but worse. Nowa's home get burned and nothing happens in it. No one is harmed, everyone is fine and dandy. He doesn't even really talk about it for the rest of the game.

Remember when Athrabalt was invaded by the undead and people were still in their shops selling gear?

This is war. People should die. People need to die. Family and friends dying is a staple of Suikoden.

[Jouchebag]

Originally posted by ShinRaPresident:

The best description of the game is Suikoden but worse.

You should avoid overgeneralizing the entire game. Most aspects are better than Suikoden. You're speaking exclusively about narrative.

The game is better looking. The gameplay is better in most aspects. The battles have a bit of balance issue, but so did Suikoden.

[Mugiwara]

Originally posted by Jouchebag:

Originally posted by ShinRaPresident:

The best description of the game is Suikoden but worse.

You should avoid overgeneralizing the entire game. Most aspects are better than Suikoden. You're speaking exclusively about narrative.

The game is better looking. The gameplay is better in most aspects. The battles have a bit of balance issue, but so did Suikoden.

Why? He is objectively correct as is the OP. This game has the dubious honour of being the only title I have bought a season pass PRIOR to day 1 release and I do not want the upcoming dlc I have paid for because of all the nonsense the publishers inserted.

[Jouchebag]

Originally posted by Mugiwara:

Originally posted by Jouchebag:

You should avoid overgeneralizing the entire game. Most aspects are better than Suikoden. You're speaking exclusively about narrative.

The game is better looking. The gameplay is better in most aspects. The battles have a bit of balance issue, but so did Suikoden.

Why? He is objectively correct as is the OP. This game has the dubious honour of being the only title I have bought a season pass PRIOR to day 1 release and I do not want the upcoming dlc I have paid for because of all the nonsense the publishers inserted.

You should double-check what objectively means.

The game is objectively better looking.

It is not objectively more childish or less emotionally impacting than Suikoden. Opinions vary wildly on what is appropriate for children and what grips people emotionally. Even though I do generally agree, I believe people are putting some nostalgia-colored glasses with their comparisons of the narrative. There were very, very few instances (none in Suikoden 1) of laying bare the horrors of war in any of the Suikoden games.

A dude gets his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ arm chopped off in this game. How many maimings do you remember from Suikoden?

[Slatepaws]

Originally posted by Zio:

Before I spend way too much time on this, two quick notes:
1) someone's death or other tragedy as motivation is one of, if not THE cheapest and laziest motivation of all time. It's a horribly boring old trope. People should be shown more with motivations that don't require the sh*t to hit the fan first.

2) if you need the aforementioned or something else more among the lines of grim dark (read edgy bs) fantasy so badly, maybe Eiyuden Chronicle is not for you.

Nothing about tropes of motivation is cheap, or wrong. They're equal tools in storytelling and the only measure is 'how' the author uses them.
If an author 'avoids' using them it's like a woodworker who refuses to use a tool.

[Jouchebag]

Originally posted by Slatepaws:

Nothing about tropes of motivation is cheap, or wrong. They're equal tools in storytelling and the only measure is 'how' the author uses them.
If an author 'avoids' using them it's like a woodworker who refuses to use a tool.

It's more like a woodworker choosing to use a different tool for similar effect because they don't all agree on which tool is best for every situation.