Flatness vs Bullet Range

[WarNerve]

I'm at the Tech with the "Unknown Stalker's AR416" and when you click on the barrel upgrade node the second set of upgrade choices are "Flatness 10%" or "Bullet Range 10%", and they both appear to do the same thing. They both show an increase to the Range stat on the weapon, but "Bullet Range" appears to give slightly more Range to the weapon than "Flatness" does, and also allows you to progress to the final upgrade in that "tree".

My question is, if they both only increase the Range, then why would you ever choose one over the other, when they both allow you to progress on to the same, and final upgrade in that Tech line?

[Cryptic]

Personally I'd go for flatness over range as at least in the old games it made a huge difference but idk here tbh

[WarNerve]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Personally I'd go for flatness over range as at least in the old games it made a huge difference but idk here tbh

Yeah, I'm not sure, either. When you click on them they both only show a change to the Range stat on the gun. I'm just wondering, then, what the difference is between them, if there is any.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by WarNerve:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Personally I'd go for flatness over range as at least in the old games it made a huge difference but idk here tbh

Yeah, I'm not sure, either. When you click on them they both only show a change to the Range stat on the gun. I'm just wondering, then, what the difference is between them, if there is any.

I would say range is the max range before the bullet completely dissipates out and loses power so it effectively becomes the end of the bullet's life if that makes sense

For flatness, I would say it makes the bullet stay straighter for longer before losing that kinetic energy and then dissipating at range

Those sound extremely similar because they are but what I'm saying is, one of them probably has more of an actual Arc for the projectile itself. I would say I have noticed this because I have turned the bullpup 5.45mm assault rifle from being a CQB weapon into a medium range Marksman rifle by the modifications that I have set up for it and it is definitely noticeable. The flatness upgrades made a significant difference

[DaweSMF]

Personal choice but i always prefer flat trajectory over distance. Doesnt matter on ARs that much but on DMRs the difference in bulletdrop is noticable. If you cant adjust scope for dropoff its kinda handy and quality of life feature.

[WarNerve]

Originally posted by DaweSMF:

Personal choice but i always prefer flat trajectory over distance. Doesnt matter on ARs that much but on DMRs the difference in bulletdrop is noticable. If you cant adjust scope for dropoff its kinda handy and quality of life feature.

I agree with your statement, overall. But the reason for my confusion is not the decision over which to choose. The confusion comes from what the game's UI is showing me when selecting the upgrades in question. When you click on them in the upgrade menu they both show that they increase the weapon's range. There is no stat bar for "Flatness", but there is a "Range" stat bar. And when you click on both of these upgrades the result is an increase in the Range stat bar on the weapon.

So what I'm unsure of, is if there are "hidden" stats that these upgrades effect. Is there a hidden trajectory stat that alters the bullet drop over distance when choosing the Flatness upgrade? Because all it displays,visually, is an increase in the Range. Which, both, Flatness AND Bullet Range show.

[Bacon Overlord®]

Originally posted by WarNerve:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Personally I'd go for flatness over range as at least in the old games it made a huge difference but idk here tbh

Yeah, I'm not sure, either. When you click on them they both only show a change to the Range stat on the gun. I'm just wondering, then, what the difference is between them, if there is any.

Flatness is accuracy over longer range.

[WarNerve]

Originally posted by Bacon Overlord®:

Originally posted by WarNerve:

Yeah, I'm not sure, either. When you click on them they both only show a change to the Range stat on the gun. I'm just wondering, then, what the difference is between them, if there is any.

Flatness is accuracy over longer range.

No offense, but you're not understanding my question.

When you look at the weapons they have various stat bars. The upgrades i am questioning both increase the RANGE stat of the weapon. There is also an Accuracy bar on the weapon. The upgrades do NOT increase the accuracy bar. Neither of them.

[DaweSMF]

Originally posted by WarNerve:

Originally posted by DaweSMF:

Personal choice but i always prefer flat trajectory over distance. Doesnt matter on ARs that much but on DMRs the difference in bulletdrop is noticable. If you cant adjust scope for dropoff its kinda handy and quality of life feature.

I agree with your statement, overall. But the reason for my confusion is not the decision over which to choose. The confusion comes from what the game's UI is showing me when selecting the upgrades in question. When you click on them in the upgrade menu they both show that they increase the weapon's range. There is no stat bar for "Flatness", but there is a "Range" stat bar. And when you click on both of these upgrades the result is an increase in the Range stat bar on the weapon.

So what I'm unsure of, is if there are "hidden" stats that these upgrades effect. Is there a hidden trajectory stat that alters the bullet drop over distance when choosing the Flatness upgrade? Because all it displays,visually, is an increase in the Range. Which, both, Flatness AND Bullet Range show.

I would guess it shows range stat since thats how it decides to diplay it - both adjustments increase range, one of them at that range will have "flatter" trajectory and one of them maybe increased something else. Communicating effectively status effects things like that is always difficult and was kinda Achiles heel in previous game as well. Till mods fixed it, the info base game gives you is kinda bad if i hold back.

[WarNerve]

Originally posted by DaweSMF:

Originally posted by WarNerve:

I agree with your statement, overall. But the reason for my confusion is not the decision over which to choose. The confusion comes from what the game's UI is showing me when selecting the upgrades in question. When you click on them in the upgrade menu they both show that they increase the weapon's range. There is no stat bar for "Flatness", but there is a "Range" stat bar. And when you click on both of these upgrades the result is an increase in the Range stat bar on the weapon.

So what I'm unsure of, is if there are "hidden" stats that these upgrades effect. Is there a hidden trajectory stat that alters the bullet drop over distance when choosing the Flatness upgrade? Because all it displays,visually, is an increase in the Range. Which, both, Flatness AND Bullet Range show.

I would guess it shows range stat since thats how it decides to diplay it - both adjustments increase range, one of them at that range will have "flatter" trajectory and one of them maybe increased something else. Communicating effectively status effects things like that is always difficult and was kinda Achiles heel in previous game as well. Till mods fixed it, the info base game gives you is kinda bad if i hold back.

Ok. That's what I was wondering. If there was more going on "under the hood" than what is shown. Thank you.

[Bacon Overlord®]

Originally posted by WarNerve:

Originally posted by Bacon Overlord®:

Flatness is accuracy over longer range.

No offense, but you're not understanding my question.

When you look at the weapons they have various stat bars. The upgrades i am questioning both increase the RANGE stat of the weapon. There is also an Accuracy bar on the weapon. The upgrades do NOT increase the accuracy bar. Neither of them.

You're not understanding my response.

If you're trying to decide on accuracy or range, go with accuracy. How many NPCs have you managed to spot at a distance so far?

None?

[Mechanique]

Originally posted by WarNerve:

Originally posted by Bacon Overlord®:

Flatness is accuracy over longer range.

No offense, but you're not understanding my question.

When you look at the weapons they have various stat bars. The upgrades i am questioning both increase the RANGE stat of the weapon. There is also an Accuracy bar on the weapon. The upgrades do NOT increase the accuracy bar. Neither of them.

Bars do not represent all the stats, just basic ones. There are about twice as many "hidden" ones.

[johndoe987456]

iirc, assuming it follows the other games' logic, range effects damage dropoff, while flatness effects how much gravity impacts the bullets path

[WarNerve]

Originally posted by Salt Engineer:

Originally posted by DaweSMF:

Personal choice but i always prefer flat trajectory over distance. Doesnt matter on ARs that much but on DMRs the difference in bulletdrop is noticable. If you cant adjust scope for dropoff its kinda handy and quality of life feature.

Anyone that's actually into firearms, I'd point to 300 Blackout. It's more "flat" meaning that you can aim at a single point and the impact is going to be within a few inches of where you aim, out to around 150-200yds. After that, the round drops substantially and is difficult for most shooters to compensate for.

The same rifle in 5.56 is less "flat" and requires you to know holds. Up close the elevation of your sights requires you to aim low. Directly where you want to hit at 100 yds, and elevated at 300 yds.

My assumption would be that flatness vs range is similar here. Flatness will keep a relatively straight trajectory similar to 300 blackout. If the physics model is even slightly accurate, that means that when it drops it will drop hard. Range probably prioritizes distance over flatness, meaning more compensation, but it would be easier to compensate for at distance than with the "flatness" upgrade.

That has more to do with the rifle you are firing, than the ammo itself. Yes, you're ammo plays a part in your shot placement. But if you know what ammo you will be using you can adjust accordingly and adjust your sights or scope for the ammo you will be mostly using. Using a specific ammo type will not make your shots land where you want them, automatically. Some ammo is better quality than others, so your shots will be more consistent when using a higher quality ammo.

As for bullet drop., everything falls at the same rate. The only exception is when the object has a high surface area and wind resistance effects the rare of fall.

But all bullets drop at the same rate. The only way to overcome that is with higher velocity. A higher velocity bullet will be able to get to it's target quicker, and have less time spent in the air, so it wont fall as much. While a lower velocity bullet has more travel time, so is able to fall further.

[DopeDawg]

There is a stat that decreases damage the further your bullet flies
And there is a stat that determines the flatness of firing arc
And they are separate, meaning your gun can fire like a VSS with ♥♥♥♥ trajectory but still do damage in the end of it, or you can have flat tragectory and deal bad damage at high distance.
The HUD doesn't show that, there is just one line "Range" and it doesn't tell anything.
Same with "Accuracy" in HUD, it goes up from different upgrades and it doesn't tell anything.
Found out in cfg files