Am I doing something wrong or motivation weapons suck?

[Luky]

I have found wrench and trying to use it but in this game it looks like size and weight doesnt matter and enemies often react like I hit them with normal sword and they barely regiter it and hit me back when I still recovering from the attack so I cant dodge or block in time, really huge downgrade from glaive, also stagger enemies and bosses is worse too. I start to regret I picked and level motivation. Is there something better later in the game or everything sucks like wrench?

[LuckyCheshire]

You're going to get a lot more stagger difference between light attacks and heavy attacks than between different weapons usually. Part of it is that the wrench isn't all that great though. The Krat Police Baton, especially the handle, is decent actually. You can also get some really massive weapons later in the game like the Puppet Axe, which you can feel the difference with much more.

[BiskutMentega]

Try experimenting with different weapon handle combination until you found something that doesnt stink. I finished the game with Big Wrench + Bramble handle, which gives great leaping charged R2 attack that can close distance and stagger enemies. ( I one shot most regular enemies using R2 charged attack).

[BastardSword]

The best thing that big heavy weapons do is completely mess up bosses' stagger gauge. If you hit them with R2 attacks then some charged R2 attacks, they'll get completely stunned for a fatal attack, and it totally skips through the phase where they have a white health bar and can still move around until you hit them with one charged R2 attack. This is really useful because fatal attacks obviously do lots of damage, and that white health bar phase can be really annoying when the boss just keeps running away or stunlocking you. Anyway the best weapons for doing this that I've seen are all motivity based weapons like the pipe wrench, the starting greatsword, and the holy sword of the ark. The Guan Yu glaive is decent for this too but mainly scales with technique, even though when I was using it in the early game and leveling up it seemed like I'd always get more extra damage from raising my motivity than from technique.

Anyway yes the pipe wrench is quite good especially with the police baton handle, but its range is just really short. Early on in the game it's ok but later bosses move around a lot more so you end up whiffing a lot of hits. I really prefer the holy sword of the ark in glaive mode, it doesn't do as much damage but it has really long range and you can stunlock bosses quite a bit with the R2 poke followed by charged R2.

[Bobloblaw]

Doing a mostly blind playthrough. Motivity weapons have all felt really good. I use the bonesaw with fire axe handle for most trash mobs and switch to Holy Sword in glaive mode for tougher mini bosses / bosses. You have to be more judicious with the button pressing due to slower attacks but the block bonus and stagger from R2's makes it totally worth it. Way less punishing to miss a perfect guard if you still block over 70% of the damage anyways.

They definitely don't suck, I've felt at times this game is bordering on too easy with an all in motivity build.

[Chacheya1G]

Originally posted by Luky:

I have found wrench and trying to use it but in this game it looks like size and weight doesnt matter and enemies often react like I hit them with normal sword and they barely regiter it and hit me back when I still recovering from the attack so I cant dodge or block in time, really huge downgrade from glaive, also stagger enemies and bosses is worse too. I start to regret I picked and level motivation. Is there something better later in the game or everything sucks like wrench?

You are doing something wrong.

[Luky]

I am at the end of the game, I am usingsawblade with pickaxe handle that was better, but still I wouldnt beat bosses without spectre and I am strugling to beat nameless puppet, still no idea how the staggering works, dodging is really weird too, very often useless, getting hit anyway and I am wasting stamina, still dont know if I like this game, maybe dexterity builds going to be better

[BiskutMentega]

Originally posted by Luky:

I am at the end of the game, I am usingsawblade with pickaxe handle that was better, but still I wouldnt beat bosses without spectre and I am strugling to beat nameless puppet, still no idea how the staggering works, dodging is really weird too, very often useless, getting hit anyway and I am wasting stamina, still dont know if I like this game, maybe dexterity builds going to be better

You're supposed to perfect block. Big wrench and other motivity weapon have the advantage of reduced health hit from regular block.

Stagger works by continued attack/perfect block, if you don't attack for a set amount of time, the stagger meter reset. Each weapon causes different amount of stagger build up, different enemies have different stagger resistance. You can try this on the practice puppet in the hotel garden. Big wrench takes 2 swing, other smaller weapon I don't know. The games doesn't do well to tell players how near is the boss until the health bar flashes white.

For nameless puppet and most bosses, dodge slightly to the left/right. Sometimes you don't even have to dodge, just move forward and slight left/right.

Dex build gives you faster hitting weapon, but you lose on the stagger build up and damage reduction from blocking. But since you can't get dodging right, I doubt switching to dex build will do any good.

[Luky]

perfect block is terrible,most time I fail it, I would need to practice for every enemy in the game to not waste life and power cells, in Souls game if I parry, enemies get staggered, in this game there is almost no benefit for that high risk

[BiskutMentega]

Originally posted by Luky:

perfect block is terrible,most time I fail it, I would need to practice for every enemy in the game to not waste life and power cells, in Souls game if I parry, enemies get staggered, in this game there is almost no benefit for that high risk

Man, you gotta throw away whatever your knowledge of Dark Souls in this game, in fact, why not stop comparing it to Dark Souls. This is simply not Dark Souls, it's a different game, made by different developer. Learn to adapt and to be open to new mechanics.

[Bobloblaw]

Originally posted by Luky:

perfect block is terrible,most time I fail it, I would need to practice for every enemy in the game to not waste life and power cells, in Souls game if I parry, enemies get staggered, in this game there is almost no benefit for that high risk

Are you tapping block to perfect block or are you holding the button for like a solid 1 second? The parry window is much bigger if you hold block...

I actually find the perfect guard system is pretty easy to get the hang of, first time you encounter new enemies you probably wont be nailing the perfect guard until you learn their patterns but for me it doesn't take long to learn them. Also if you're using a big sword if you hold the button and you miss the perfect guard you still block it for like 70%+ of the damage...

Sounds like a skill issue to me.

Also try the Holy Sword in it's spear form vs bosses. The range on the R2 is massive and it's a pretty fast attack with decent stagger build up. Just perfect guard, dodge, poke with R2 and then when they stagger pop your grind wheel and fatal attack and fable arts them as the get up. You will nuke like 1/4-1/2 their HP with each stagger that way.

[Luky]

Originally posted by Bobloblaw:

Originally posted by Luky:

perfect block is terrible,most time I fail it, I would need to practice for every enemy in the game to not waste life and power cells, in Souls game if I parry, enemies get staggered, in this game there is almost no benefit for that high risk

Are you tapping block to perfect block or are you holding the button for like a solid 1 second? The parry window is much bigger if you hold block...

I actually find the perfect guard system is pretty easy to get the hang of, first time you encounter new enemies you probably wont be nailing the perfect guard until you learn their patterns but for me it doesn't take long to learn them. Also if you're using a big sword if you hold the button and you miss the perfect guard you still block it for like 70%+ of the damage...

Sounds like a skill issue to me.

Also try the Holy Sword in it's spear form vs bosses. The range on the R2 is massive and it's a pretty fast attack with decent stagger build up. Just perfect guard, dodge, poke with R2 and then when they stagger pop your grind wheel and fatal attack and fable arts them as the get up. You will nuke like 1/4-1/2 their HP with each stagger that way.

I missed the sword bwcause I accidentaly sell boss ergo, boss ergos are next to normal ergoes so its really stupid design, I have found many ppl got the issue they accidentaly use boss ergoes

[Luky]

playing techinque build right now, had booster glaive handle and I had much better time because that charge, trying two dragon sword, its really relying on that block with charged attack but its even harder to proc, really this game is really bad when playing with guard/prefect parry, much better and safer is charging from distance