Bloodborne 2 This Isn't(Non-Story Related Spoilers Ahead)

[Something]

This game is not Bloodborne 2 like a lot of people seem to claim it is. While I wont get into story specific spoilers I will mention mechanics and some mob types, so if you consider that a spoiler then consider this your warning.

Dodging feels basically useless. Just about everything in this game either has a bigger frame or longer reach than the character, and the i-frame window in this game is incredibly tight. Pair that with the fact that just about every mob outside of the basic Puppet enemy types has some form of 5-7 hit wombo combo that you can get hitlocked into because there's no such thing as poise in this game and the closest thing this game has to hyper armor has to be spec'd into, which when paired with the fact that most enemy types will pivot on a dime to continue their attacks after you successfully evaded them means you either have to be very good at consistently hitting i-frame dodge windows, or you play the game the way the developers REALLY want you to be playing and parry the world(or perfect guard as this game calls it). If the devs don't want me to be dodging then they shouldn't have a dodge mechanic in the game.

You are at a significant disadvantage when using a two-handed weapon over a one-handed one. The attack is so slow and there only thing remotely close to hyper armor you get, like I said above, is something you have to spec into. I went a pure "str" build for my first playthrough, and the damage you gain from using a weapon's two-handed variety isn't worth the significant trade-off in recovery frames. You basically get punished every time you try to swing on a boss with a big 2h weapon. I think, at least with the current build of the game, the only way 2h weapons are viable is by just using them for the higher damage fatal blows after perfect guard breaking the enemies and for clearing normal trash on the way to the boss. At 40 "str" it takes the same amount of hits with a two-handed weapon to kill something as it does with a one-handed weapon. The number is higher with the two-hander yes, but when it comes down to both options taking two swings, then you're only hindering yourself by using the two-hand variant.

Fights with human opponents is the same regardless of whatever kind of gimmick they have. It's boring once you figure it out. Just circle strafe behind him and backstab them. Rinse and repeat until they're dead. Depending on their weapon you might wanna strafe left instead of right, but for the most part it's the same strat every single time, and that's boring. The Hunter fights in Bloodborne were genuinely exciting, as they were just as mobile and frantic as the player was. In this the AI is easily abused.

A big draw for the Soulsborne games up until Elden Ring I feel was that fights felt challenging but fair, and for the most part enemies had to abide by the same game rules as the player did, with exceptions of course. But like in a Soulsborne game if you can't deal damage to something when it's knocked down, then you also can't be dealt damage while on the ground. In this game however, if you get caught with an overhead or something and you find yourself on the ground, enemies will wombo combo you to death during the slow ass recovery animation frames, with the only way to alleviate this being an option you have to spec into, which you don't get enough Quartz(the material used to upgrade player skills themselves) to even unlock the "dodge from the ground" option until like 8 hours into the game, and given everything I've already stated earlier, you're still getting hit as you try to roll out most times.

Some fights are just simply not fair. I wont mention names or specifics, but there's one encounter where you gotta fight 5 things at once. Yes they give you the option to summon an AI ally before the boss fog, and even with that the fight didn't even feel remotely fair since they all had their own speeds, reaches, damages and wombo combos. Plus you factor in that most enemies in the game, even including the player themselves, have a phantom range on their attacks so you're getting hit by things it visually looks like you should of avoided.

[Ch33zyDischarg3]

Sounds like a Game Pass game.

[Kashra Fall]

Agree entirely. Lies of P tries to follow the franchise and offer some fresh ideas, but fumbles HARD in some of the mechanics that make some of these builds fun. No armor? No problem, but heavy weapons hitting for just slightly over what light weapons do and having to suffer animation lockouts with higher stamina cost? Kinda silly stuff man. I love chonky weapons, but the developers need to prove to me that they actually tested motivity for me to take back any statements about it.

[Ting]

I've been using the Holy Sword of Arc or whatever it is called, and it absolutely murders in this game. It's special ability is a charge overhead that does an insane amount of stagger and damage. I think 2-handed are just as good if not better than 1 handed weapons.

It can also transform into a polearm basically, which has a lot of range. And switching back and forth seems to heat up the sword and then that causes fire damage? It's just insanely broken.

But also, that's because this isn't a Bloodborne-like, it's a Sekiro-like -- and that means you need to perfect parry basically every attack, and big swords are better for this because they have like 80% physical absorb if you mess up.

[Kashra Fall]

Цитата допису Ting:

I've been using the Holy Sword of Arc or whatever it is called, and it absolutely murders in this game. It's special ability is a charge overhead that does an insane amount of stagger and damage. I think 2-handed are just as good if not better than 1 handed weapons.

It can also transform into a polearm basically, which has a lot of range. And switching back and forth seems to heat up the sword and then that causes fire damage? It's just insanely broken.

But also, that's because this isn't a Bloodborne-like, it's a Sekiro-like -- and that means you need to perfect parry basically every attack, and big swords are better for this because they have like 80% physical absorb if you mess up.

So you're surprised a boss weapon absolutely wrecks in a souls like game? It should be expected, but other weapons in the same category (Heavy.) do not have those strengths, but have plenty of weaknesses. Despite the game having interchangable parts for a TON of variation and build ideas, you normally end up settling on what works, vs what is fun. I have a saw blade+explosive mining handle weapon that hits a very long range for 500 normal, 700 charged heavy, staggers in 3 hits, but has the weakness of having no poise and a horrible handle skill. Why do I use it? Because it is fun, but it is VASTLY underpowered to a speedy rapier in terms of mobility/survivability and damage per second. Rapier doesn't stagger as quickly however.

[Ting]

Цитата допису Kashra Fall:

Цитата допису Ting:

I've been using the Holy Sword of Arc or whatever it is called, and it absolutely murders in this game. It's special ability is a charge overhead that does an insane amount of stagger and damage. I think 2-handed are just as good if not better than 1 handed weapons.

It can also transform into a polearm basically, which has a lot of range. And switching back and forth seems to heat up the sword and then that causes fire damage? It's just insanely broken.

But also, that's because this isn't a Bloodborne-like, it's a Sekiro-like -- and that means you need to perfect parry basically every attack, and big swords are better for this because they have like 80% physical absorb if you mess up.

So you're surprised a boss weapon absolutely wrecks in a souls like game? It should be expected, but other weapons in the same category (Heavy.) do not have those strengths, but have plenty of weaknesses. Despite the game having interchangable parts for a TON of variation and build ideas, you normally end up settling on what works, vs what is fun. I have a saw blade+explosive mining handle weapon that hits a very long range for 500 normal, 700 charged heavy, staggers in 3 hits, but has the weakness of having no poise and a horrible handle skill. Why do I use it? Because it is fun, but it is VASTLY underpowered to a speedy rapier in terms of mobility/survivability and damage per second. Rapier doesn't stagger as quickly however.

I've found that most of my damage in the game comes in the form of stagger->fatal attacks. It'll probably matter how you allocate your P-organs (or whatever they're called), but you can pump up the relative strengths of your weapon quite a bit to where I don't think a single-handled weapon can do nearly as much damage, amortized, in the same large chunk of time (though yes, they should be able to do burst-y damage quickly given their nature).

So almost all bosses in this game are really just about getting perfect parries, because that is adding to their stagger gauge in the background. Then you pull out a charged R2 on your heavy and that'll be all she wrote, especially if you've saved up some attacks to add to a knocked down opponent.

If you're unable to perfect parry in this game, however, you're going to have a bad time nomatter what kind of weapon you're using. Hence why I'd reiterate that this is very much a Sekiro-like game and not, like say, Bloodborne (despite how it looks). That will be I think the single largest point of contention over this game when it officially releases, because it obviously looks very much like it's trying to be the standard Souls-like formula, rather than the rythem-based combat of Sekiro. It is what it is.

It's so early I have yet to try a lot of the weapons, but I do go back to using my rapier sword on normal enemies, switching to my 2-hander when I'm in a boss fight or need heavy block absorption.

[SadPlatty©]

Some of this honestly seems a little exaggerated.

You say dodging does nothing at all, yet I have been spamming it just like I would have when playing BB and it isn't the god mode evade that managed to go from BB to Elden Ring, but it isn't worthless either as I have even managed to dodge "undodgable" attacks by stepping backwards 2/3 times.

Additionally - you say spec into usability; you talking the park tree? Because one literally lets you double-dodge and, while it only works at >50% weight cap, it certainly helps against the wombo combos since you can dodge left/right then diagonally in another direction to step around the normal mobs, or time it right to dodge two fast back-to-back hits.

The stagger is also basically the BB gun parry's, just don't need ammo this time; but the schtick is "setup your enemy for damage". If you Perf Block 2/3 hits, you are usually good to get some damage in.

Weapon-wise, I haven't messed with it too much yet. Just like BB, I found the "Tonitritus"/(elec weapon near the start), and am likely going to use that almost entirely for run 1. Added it to a two-hand handle though and it didn't exactly seem too worth initially though - so sure, this may be right. To be fair though - aside from the Scythe, Kirkhammer in BB was pretty slow. Holy Sword of Moonlight was too - but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ was it the best rendition by far (whoever came up with the transformation anim needs a raise).

Honestly - this does feel close; not sure how people can say they are not that similar. Hell - the fire guy for instance just reminded me of a slower fire version of Blood Starved Beast. Also - I totally cheesed Hunters; guy with the cannon - spam-kick him off the roof. DLC guy with the Blast Hammer? Backstab him a bunch since he needs a sec to pick the hammer back up. Father Gascoign? music box, back-stab, music box, back-stab, then just gun parry beast form and visceral attack until he dies.

Though - so far nothing compared to Maria/Child of Kos levels of frustrating, so that's something. I would say it's like a 45% similarity; the initial ambiance of Krat looks like Yharnam, and there is a forest segment in both.

Though 0/10 - Cat won't let me give pats

EDIT : Hell - they even copied BBs "talk with the person in the window and help them out" side-quest. Was a kid both times. BB you help get a locket for this kid and you get the first special Blood Gem, here kid is about to die and misses Murphy, so you "reunite" them and he gives you something not as special

[Something]

Цитата допису SadPlatty©:

Some of this honestly seems a little exaggerated.

You say dodging does nothing at all, yet I have been spamming it just like I would have when playing BB and it isn't the god mode evade that managed to go from BB to Elden Ring, but it isn't worthless either as I have even managed to dodge "undodgable" attacks by stepping backwards 2/3 times.

Additionally - you say spec into usability; you talking the park tree? Because one literally lets you double-dodge and, while it only works at >50% weight cap, it certainly helps against the wombo combos since you can dodge left/right then diagonally in another direction to step around the normal mobs, or time it right to dodge two fast back-to-back hits.

Weapon-wise, I haven't messed with it too much yet. Just like BB, I found the "Tonitritus"/(elec weapon near the start), and am likely going to use that almost entirely for run 1. Added it to a two-hand handle though and it didn't exactly seem too worth initially though - so sure, this may be right. To be fair though - aside from the Scythe, Kirkhammer in BB was pretty slow. Holy Sword of Moonlight was too - but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ was it the best rendition by far (whoever came up with the transformation anim needs a raise).

Honestly though - this does feel close; not sure how people can say they are not that similar. Hell - the fire guy for instance just reminded me of a slower fire version of Blood Starved Beast. Also - I totally cheesed Hunters; guy with the cannon - spam-kick him off the roof. DLC guy with the Blast Hammer? Backstab him a bunch since he needs a sec to pick the hammer back up. Father Gascoign? music box, back-stab, music box, back-stab, then just gun parry beast form and visceral attack until he dies.

Though - so far nothing compared to Maria/Child of Kos levels of frustrating, so that's something. I would say it's like a 45% similarity; the initial ambiance of Krat looks like Yharnam, and there is a forest segment in both.

Though 0/10 - Cat won't let me give pats :sunekosuri:

You can definitely see the heavy influences for sure, and sometimes borderline straight rips. And strength builds are still very viable, you just have to accept that more often than not, the 1h variety is going to be the best way to use it, which is sad because I loved the idea of the giant friggin' wrench weapon. Very Steampunky/Torchlight 2-y.

And most of my complaints can easily be addressed in future patches, though given these are the same people who made Bless Online/Bless Unleashed, I don't expect this game to get regular balance updates. I think launch version is basically gonna be what we get. But other things that I mentioned, like the mobs turning on a dime mid attack, or having ridiculous 100-0 combo strings, or how getting hit has a stagger recovery that's so slow that the moment you get hit, in a lot of cases you just get bodied. Like one enemy that looks like a giant walking forge with a shovel, that thing if it slaps you on the ground, it WILL kill you because it takes so long for you to regain control of your character after getting knocked down, but you're still entirely vulnerable to incoming damage, and it's attack speed is quick enough where your character will be halfway through getting up and it'll slap you back down and it'll keep doing it until you die and there's nothing you can do. It also only does it if your health is at like 25%-30% after getting knocked down like some legitimate execution move. Like wtf?

Edit:
I think the sweet spot for enemy combos should be 3 attacks. 4 if you want a boss to be particularly sweaty. I'm not exaggerating when I say that a lot of mobs in the game have 5-7 hit combo strings. And against the tougher enemies when they start doing that, I just say screw it and run past them because even with a high damage stat value and an appropriately leveled weapon, I still just don't do enough damage to it to really justify the use of my healing items.

Likewise, shortcuts get longer and longer as the game progresses. At first shortcuts take about 10 or so minutes to open up from the start of a level, but as the game progresses it starts to be like there's the beginning zone bonfire, and then the shortcut right before the boss of the area, which after taking like 30 minutes to clear a level and not having the shortcut unlocked only to die right before it really encourages the "Welp I'm just gonna run past everything for now on because that was dumb AF.".

[SadPlatty©]

Honestly - I think the main issue is the lack of guns compared to BB. To your point of long combos, I am at the Chapel; third Stargazer, but I got to the leveled up thing and dodged wrong so I died - and yeah, some of the things have longer combos, which is where BB you would just gun parry them super easy (like the thing on the bridge before where I am now). Here you can try to perf block everything after learning enemy windows, but that's effort.

Also - yeah, the shortcuts are lengthier over time, but I note that is the case for a number of souls likes. e.g. Another one I plaid not too long ago "Hellpoint" is similar (which for the later ones even adds a little additional platforming to get to/back from). First area has "Rifts" (bonfire/stargazer) every couple of minutes and an unnecessary short-cut or two, and later they get very far with ladders you gotta hop at or whatever. Would honestly attribute this to devs just implying "you got this far and know what you are doing, so you don't need as much assistance". And usually these games spawn you exactly where you quit when you load your game, so not like you can't go to bed or something due to not being able to save.

Another thing ripped from BB is the "Rally" mechanic, or being able to fight back to regen a little chunk of health. BB kept it more generic "take damage - gain up to 15%" or whatever, while here you need to block to gain the white sliver. This is where I think it gets harder also as :
- No early good near infinite projectile akin to gun (maybe grapple hand)
and
- Rally is limited to blocked hits, which means heavies that are punished are doubly so risky.

Do appreciate the way they approached it as it is their unique flair on difficulty. Any game can copy making enemies stupid tough - NIOH for example has it's fair share of stupid enemies, but it's schtick is that you need to leverage everything you can to win (you are likely using some form of magic whether you want to or not just to compete). Hellpoint has a unique flair being that "Time" plays a big factor in some of the gameplay, and certain "times" mean more enemies (it's black hole cycles really). Here they took Sekiro and BB, and slapped them together with parry matters and the theme; though the normal enemies tend to be easier than DS, while the mini/main bosses are almost the same toughness (they move slower, but have those special attacks you are forced to parry).

An interesting comparison would probably be : Murphy/first major boss from this, Darkbeast Paarl in BB, and then the Nue or Lightning Gods of Yomi from NIOH 2. Same idea, lightning elemental damage and AoEs - while also crawling around on all 4s (except Yomi which just teleports a bunch).

[SteelaiRizel]

"Dodging feels basically useless"

Stopped reading not too long after that. I use dodging plenty in combination with perfect guard.

[Something]

Цитата допису SteelaiRizel:

"Dodging feels basically useless"

Stopped reading not too long after that. I use dodging plenty in combination with perfect guard.

I dodge all the time too, doesn't change the fact that they designed the enemies around heavily punishing you for doing it. And let's be honest, that was the first sentence outside of the spoiler disclaimer. You stopped there because you can only read on a 3rd grade level. Let's not pretend it's because of some "hot take" that you don't agree with.

[SadPlatty©]

Цитата допису Chub-Zero:

I dodge all the time too, doesn't change the fact that they designed the enemies around heavily punishing you for doing it.

This is like saying Dark Souls 2 forward gets less "healing focused" because all enemies start to punish you for using Estus though.

Additionally - there is at least 1 perk to reduce damage while your dodging, so there is some support to it when also paired with double dodges.