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hmm, its just run straight through the area and jump down the cliffs. Its one of the longer ways but you never have to fight
Game doesn't really work well in 1 v many fights, you can literally be stunlocked to death quite easily.
The only reason why 1st one isn't so bad is because you can alphastrike the eldest (even if NG+) and avoid most of the adds.
And the second one is utterly obnoxious; good thing there's an invulnerable STACK OF BOXES in the arena which creates some cover from the AI should you end up in a 2 v 1 fight once the eldest arrives.
It's like Romeo's first part where you can be just pushed around for minutes if the boss feels like doing his wide swings move. Nothing you can do here but wait it out.
For the brotherhood I always feel that luck plays considerably more part here than skill. The skill you need to clear these fights 100 out of 100 attempts is VERY high, and if you don't have that then it becomes highly random. Sometimes the AI just obnoxiously gank you in a corner and kill you in a stunlock or just drain most of your heals. Other times they aren't even attacking you much.
for example in brotherhood boss 1 of them is always passive if you keep your distance and one of them uses projectile or hook, only one will attacks you constantly. after one of them dies the other one becomes more aggressive but not at full rate more like first fight with elder.