Guard Parry a mostly useless defensive?

[Ras-pica]

Compared to attempting a normal Perfect Guard, I feel like Guard Parry is overall inferior and outside of a few niche cases is just not worth attempting.

With Guard Parry, the sequence is as follows:
[Guarding...] [Vulnerable] [Guard Parry] [Vulnerable]

The key here is that you completely drop your guard before and after Guard Parry, meaning that the window is extremely punishing. If the window fails, you will take full damage because you are unguarded. And because of the nature of being vulnerable before the perfect timing, there is a delay between the player pressing the button(s) to activate it and being granted that success window, meaning you must activate it slightly early. I guess for a Fable ability, the only thing going for it is that a failed Guard Parry costs no fable, and a successful one costs just 1 Fable, meaning you can do it often. However, I still generally find it more worth saving 3 Fable for something else that acts as a gap closer and/or stagger for a stagger window (especially important for staggering agile bosses where normal charged attacks miss or simply can't be executed fast enough before they attack you again), or saving 2 Fable for Etiquette's Absolute Counterattack.

With Perfect Guard, your sequence is as follows:
[Perfect Guard] [Guarding...]

Perfect Guard does not have a vulnerability window beforehand and so pressing the button instantly puts you into Perfect Guard. And except for Fury Attacks (enemies glowing red), it is also quite risk free if you activate too early (transitions to normal Guard without a window of vulnerability). Other benefits, including P-Organ upgrades, include: damaging the enemy's weapon (leading to eventual breakage), charging Fable, restoring Guard Regain HP, restoring weapon durability, and making the enemy stumble on certain attacks, which opens an opportunity for attacking them back, anyway.

In conclusion, it just seems generally not worth it to attempt to find that perfect Guard Parry timing for every major boss attack. I think the only real niche where it may be worth it is when a boss does a very long combo attack against you, in which case I'm quite sure a successful Guard Parry ends its attacking spree prematurely. But, such relentless combos are uncommon and thus in my experience, 98% of the time, even in boss fights, Perfect Guard, Aegis, or even a Dodge to avoid the attack entirely is more worth doing than attempting Guard Parry.

If you do consider using Guard Parry, I recommend the Seven-Coil Spring Sword, which upon testing on dummies at Hotel Krat suggests that it has a slightly fatter window than all other weapons with Guard Parry. However, this weapon is not a good choice for staggering agile bosses, so pair it with another weapon that can spend 3 Fable on an easy stagger.

[Count von Bunnyhopven]

Guard Parry is kind of like Parrying in Elden Ring. Its there to be a fun mechanic, but it does not exist to win battles. You can use it and have fun doing so, but it will be harder than fighting the boss normally. Maybe there are some bosses like the crucible knights that parrying is easier than normal fighting?

[Teljaxx]

Of course it is. Literally everything in this game is worse than perfect guarding.

I honestly don't even know why half the systems and abilities in this game even exist. Because if you're doing anything other than standing still, and tapping block a bunch during every fight, you're doing it wrong. Using Fable Arts, Legion Arm abilities, items, and even dodging are just a waste of time because of how stupidly overpowered perfect guarding is.

But, that's how all these "Simon Says parry, or die!" Sekiro clones work.

[lian]

Originally posted by Teljaxx:

Of course it is. Literally everything in this game is worse than perfect guarding.

I honestly don't even know why half the systems and abilities in this game even exist. Because if you're doing anything other than standing still, and tapping block a bunch during every fight, you're doing it wrong. Using Fable Arts, Legion Arm abilities, items, and even dodging are just a waste of time because of how stupidly overpowered perfect guarding is.

But, that's how all these "Simon Says parry, or die!" Sekiro clones work.

i swear only guys how say fable arts and legion arms are waste of time are real trash at game.

it makes me wonder do you even played game? or just saw some reddit review about it and made this post base of it?

I can't even comprehand how dumb is your entire statement...
it's like you purposly making staff ignoring things like: seperating enemies, finding window to atack backing of to avoid aoe or to repair your weapon, running away from atacks like archbishop have like are you high? dumb? or both?

[Count von Bunnyhopven]

For most of the game fable arts are a waste of time. Because you can only do 1-3 until you need to wait a long time until you can do them again. This means that they will never get in to your muscle memory and you wont get the timing right. Especially not if you like trying out new weapons all the time.

Honestly this is one of the weaker parts of the game. Weapon arts in Elden Ring was way better implemented.

[Teljaxx]

Originally posted by lian:

i swear only guys how say fable arts and legion arms are waste of time are real trash at game.

it makes me wonder do you even played game? or just saw some reddit review about it and made this post base of it?

I can't even comprehand how dumb is your entire statement...
it's like you purposly making staff ignoring things like: seperating enemies, finding window to atack backing of to avoid aoe or to repair your weapon, running away from atacks like archbishop have like are you high? dumb? or both?

One: Learn to spell, illiteracy doesn't make you cool. Two: Are you really so insecure that you had to come to my profile and insult me there, too? Like it or not, this was my experience with Lies of P:

I got all the way to Romeo, King of Puppets without ever using a single Fable Art in combat. And the only reason I never beat him, is because I was so incredibly bored of every single boss fight feeling the exact same, that I just stopped playing. Its too bad, because I did actually like the story and setting of the game, and wanted to see how it all ended.

I only used the grapple Legion Arm when I first got it, then promptly forgot it even existed. I don't even remember what other Legion Arms I had.

Because the only thing that I needed to beat every single big fight in the game, is perfect guard, an occasional poke in between, then a downed attack when the enemy gets staggered. Rinse, repeat, try not to fall asleep. The only variation to the pattern was having to dodge away to heal/repair if I missed too many perfect guards. Everything else was a waste of time.

I didn't even care when I found new weapons, since they don't do anything to change that pattern, either. Doesn't matter if you have a tiny knife, or a massive 10 foot saw, the game plays the exact same. So what should have been a really cool weapon customization system, just felt pointless. The only reason I stuck with the booster glaive handle the entire game, is because its charge attack made killing all the two-hit chump enemies a bit quicker. Even using fire or electricity against enemies that were supposedly weak to them didn't make any noticeable difference.

And before anyone says it: No, I wasn't using summons to make everything too easy, either. Because that would have just made the game even more boring.

[Acpolax]

Originally posted by Teljaxx:

And before anyone says it: No, I wasn't using summons to make everything too easy, either. Because that would have just made the game even more boring.

There is nothing wrong with using the spectre except some bosses become incredibly stupid If you use it, like Laxasia will focus the Spectre down at the beginning of the second phase so you miss out on deflecting her lighting attacks. On some other bosses the spectre wont even get past first phase so you basically made second phase harder cause you are alone with an even tankier boss.

[𝕊𝕠𝕡𝕙𝕚𝕒]

Originally posted by Teljaxx:

Originally posted by lian:

i swear only guys how say fable arts and legion arms are waste of time are real trash at game.

it makes me wonder do you even played game? or just saw some reddit review about it and made this post base of it?

I can't even comprehand how dumb is your entire statement...
it's like you purposly making staff ignoring things like: seperating enemies, finding window to atack backing of to avoid aoe or to repair your weapon, running away from atacks like archbishop have like are you high? dumb? or both?

One: Learn to spell, illiteracy doesn't make you cool. Two: Are you really so insecure that you had to come to my profile and insult me there, too? Like it or not, this was my experience with Lies of P:

I got all the way to Romeo, King of Puppets without ever using a single Fable Art in combat. And the only reason I never beat him, is because I was so incredibly bored of every single boss fight feeling the exact same, that I just stopped playing. Its too bad, because I did actually like the story and setting of the game, and wanted to see how it all ended.

I only used the grapple Legion Arm when I first got it, then promptly forgot it even existed. I don't even remember what other Legion Arms I had.

Because the only thing that I needed to beat every single big fight in the game, is perfect guard, an occasional poke in between, then a downed attack when the enemy gets staggered. Rinse, repeat, try not to fall asleep. The only variation to the pattern was having to dodge away to heal/repair if I missed too many perfect guards. Everything else was a waste of time.

I didn't even care when I found new weapons, since they don't do anything to change that pattern, either. Doesn't matter if you have a tiny knife, or a massive 10 foot saw, the game plays the exact same. So what should have been a really cool weapon customization system, just felt pointless. The only reason I stuck with the booster glaive handle the entire game, is because its charge attack made killing all the two-hit chump enemies a bit quicker. Even using fire or electricity against enemies that were supposedly weak to them didn't make any noticeable difference.

And before anyone says it: No, I wasn't using summons to make everything too easy, either. Because that would have just made the game even more boring.

im sorry but this entire statement is so filled with things that are opposite to each other
i don't even wanna read it all.

i stoped after you said you refuse to make game interesting by using fable art and then you dare to complain game is too repetitive and boring.

you can go home now.

[Teljaxx]

Originally posted by 𝕊𝕠𝕡𝕙𝕚𝕒:

im sorry but this entire statement is so filled with things that are opposite to each other
i don't even wanna read it all.

i stoped after you said you refuse to make game interesting by using fable art and then you dare to complain game is too repetitive and boring.

you can go home now.

Sigh... sometimes I don't even know why I bother explaining anything, if a bunch of illiterate cavemen are going to TL;DR it, and then reply without even understanding anything I said.

So let me make this as simple as I can: Fable Arts suck. All of them. They're completely unreliable because of their stupidly long recharge. They have such pointlessly flashy animations that they leave you vulnerable for way too long. And none of them have enough impact to actually be worth dealing with all those problems.

But you know what doesn't have any limitations or downsides whatsoever? Perfect blocking. Its the unbeatable META of the game, and it invalidates nearly every other system and mechanic because of how stupidly overpowered it is.

Fable Arts, Legion Arms, weapon customization, elemental grinders, etc. None of them win fights the same way that simply standing still, and mashing the block button till it breaks does.

So the game isn't boring because I "refuse to make it interesting". Its boring because the developers used such a shallow dominant strategy as the core of their gameplay loop.

[Plumber]

Even without factoring in Fable Arts, there are many situations - usually very high blockstun attacks - that are better to position around or dodge than perfect guard unless you really want that durability damage or you're using Fuoco's amulet. While you aren't necessarily punished for perfect guarding such attacks, you still miss out on what would've been an opening to sneak some damage in or go all-in with a charged heavy. It's almost mission-critical to respect this when fighting the game's hardest enemies with the slowest, heaviest weapons. One of my favorite weapons, Frozen Feast, takes this to an extreme since if you ever play passively with perfect guards you'll lose your stacks and have to burn meter to recharge it or go for weaker attacks instead of its freight train R2s.

If you want suggestions for weapons that are strongly defined by their Fable Arts, try Frozen Feast which gambles with meter to skip its stacking mechanic OR do a super-armored heavy that decimates everything while helping manage your stamina; Big Pipe Wrench whose fastest moves are about as slow as light weapons' charged attacks, but the guard counter Fable Art it has gives it a huge table-turning punish to make up for that weakness; and the infamously strong but very technical Azure Dragon Crescent Glaive which breaks the rules of this whole system and lets you do super-powerful counters meterlessly (so long as you never whiff), and of course it has an incredibly strong metered counter and killer basic moveset to go with it.

Most other weapons have niche applications for their arts, but those were the weapons I had the most fun with. The simple fact that they help you ignore low stamina and break an enemy when they're staggerable makes all but the most mundane arts compelling to use. It's true that managing the fable gauge is pretty difficult on a first cycle, but you start getting showered in meter in NG+ onwards because of P-Organ upgrades and you can consciously offset it by using consumables to recharge it by force.

tl;dr they're your tableflip button and some weapons really like flipping tables and the entire room with them

[Count von Bunnyhopven]

Originally posted by Plumber:

Even without factoring in Fable Arts, there are many situations - usually very high blockstun attacks - that are better to position around or dodge than perfect guard unless you really want that durability damage or you're using Fuoco's amulet. While you aren't necessarily punished for perfect guarding such attacks, you still miss out on what would've been an opening to sneak some damage in or go all-in with a charged heavy. It's almost mission-critical to respect this when fighting the game's hardest enemies with the slowest, heaviest weapons. One of my favorite weapons, Frozen Feast, takes this to an extreme since if you ever play passively with perfect guards you'll lose your stacks and have to burn meter to recharge it or go for weaker attacks instead of its freight train R2s.

If you want suggestions for weapons that are strongly defined by their Fable Arts, try Frozen Feast which gambles with meter to skip its stacking mechanic OR do a super-armored heavy that decimates everything while helping manage your stamina; Big Pipe Wrench whose fastest moves are about as slow as light weapons' charged attacks, but the guard counter Fable Art it has gives it a huge table-turning punish to make up for that weakness; and the infamously strong but very technical Azure Dragon Crescent Glaive which breaks the rules of this whole system and lets you do super-powerful counters meterlessly (so long as you never whiff), and of course it has an incredibly strong metered counter and killer basic moveset to go with it.

Most other weapons have niche applications for their arts, but those were the weapons I had the most fun with. The simple fact that they help you ignore low stamina and break an enemy when they're staggerable makes all but the most mundane arts compelling to use. It's true that managing the fable gauge is pretty difficult on a first cycle, but you start getting showered in meter in NG+ onwards because of P-Organ upgrades and you can consciously offset it by using consumables to recharge it by force.

tl;dr they're your tableflip button and some weapons really like flipping tables and the entire room with them

Of course a plumber would recommend the big wrench!

But you are right! I have tested a bit and the wrench is great if you put it on a handle with a better move set. Like the fireman's axe handle. The big wrench bash only cost one fable and will give you poise so that you cant be knocked out of the attack if an enemy attack hit you first. It will also hit hard enough to disrupt enemy attacks and do a lot of stance damage.

In this case you would use a 1 fable tech on a big enemies and then follow up with charged attack to get a crit opening on them, which will probably end them. Big enemies are not common enough that you run out of fable and it really helps with stronger enemies.

[Plumber]

yeah, exactly, just knowing how to leverage them for staggers and topples lets you 100 to 0 otherwise nasty enemies. Some areas feel designed around this; you'll get fed meter from a bunch of weak enemies and then you'll fight a big guy that has a "please spend all your resources on me" sign on his forehead guarding something important, like a checkpoint, a quartz, or some other high-value thing.

on-topic, guard points like from the Etiquette weapon also interface well with this little dance between guarding, perfect guarding, fable arts, and the regain system

[Fr0ud3]

Originally posted by Teljaxx:

Of course it is. Literally everything in this game is worse than perfect guarding.

I honestly don't even know why half the systems and abilities in this game even exist.

Oh, I can tell you that. BECAUSE IT IS FUN. See, the purpose of playing a game is to have fun. It's not to do the absolute meta-optimal thing at every point of the experience. Unless that's what you think is fun, in which case, just so you know, girls think you are boring. The reason to use Guard Parry or anything else in this game is because it is cool. Because doing cool ♥♥♥♥ is fun. You should try having fun, maybe.