Lies of P

Lies of P

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stranger Jan 17, 2024 @ 6:57pm
This game needs truth and lies tags
They need to add tags on the choice sequences of the game, on which answer is a truth and a lie. I was playing a 2nd run of the game and wanted to do a all truth run, and late game got to a specific question where looking at guides online said a certain answer was the truth but another guide said it was a lie. So I answered with what I believed was the most truthful answer and turns out it was a lie, completely destroying my full truth run. That is completely BS, especially because certain questions are asked in a way where technically both answers can be a truth or a lie
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Showing 16-30 of 34 comments
stranger Jan 19, 2024 @ 8:09am 
Originally posted by Mako:
Originally posted by stranger:
I don't know about that, I have only beaten it with the bad ending so far, but I do know that both times I have chosen the option for the gentleman the" never heard of it " option, yet the message still appears on the body later.
Thats true that the message is there regardless.
But then again its not about telling lies just for the sake of it. Showing compassion is what matters.
And besides telling something and wishing for it is not the same thing. People can say one thing but wish for another.

Originally posted by stranger:
This is what I mean, both of these answers to Simon are more of an opinion, neither truth nor lie. This would not be an issue if there was tags on which one is the truth or lie.
You are missing the point again.
You get humanity for "I liberated her" not because its a lie but because it shows that you want to protect her from Manus. Basically this means "not your toy anymore, screw you". While "gave peace" is more of a neutral answer and raises another question "where did you store her ergo then, you machine built for gathering ergo".

To reiterate: its not the lie or truth is what matters but the intent behind it and what happens afterwards

Placing tags is a sure way to make players answer like robots, picking tags instead of answers. I realize thats exactly what you want. But I dont think any developer would want that.

That would be good if the answers were not themselves binary and don't make much sense. There are ways to be human while still answering truthfully, you do not need to lie just to placate someone.
Regarding the gentleman, the true answer was "never heard of it" (technically a lie because of the paper in the factory wrote about it before the meeting but let's ignore that point). Now a person would say they were a puppet because he answered in robotic fashion, but just because he told the truth doesn't mean there was no empathy behind it. It could have been followed up "never heard of it, but that doesn't mean it can't happen" or "you could be the new trendsetter" or better yet, "lets take the puppet back to the hotel to get it repaired" just like the butler one.
Lets take Eugenie for another example, is it truly more humane to tell her that the person who saved here life "was just some random person" and not that it was her brother? Regarding this one too, if you don't read the cryptic message before talking to her a different "truth" answer will come up instead of "her brother" answer, it would say "a person that saved her" which again is technically true .
Mako Jan 19, 2024 @ 8:37am 
I do agree that lie = good is a bit forced sometimes in this game. But thats clearly the developers intent. There are no bad selfish lies in this game. Its always either to show compassion or to protect someone else (misdirections given to Alidoro for example are meant to follow on dad's request to never tell anyone about hotel).
All questions have only 2 choices so your argument about gentleman's bride while valid IRL is not applicable to this game. You either lift his spirit or you break it, no middle ground.
For Eugene both answers give you humanity, its just telling truth gives it after talking again so no real correct answer here.
Last edited by Mako; Jan 19, 2024 @ 8:38am
stranger Jan 19, 2024 @ 8:49am 
Originally posted by Mako:
I do agree that lie = good is a bit forced sometimes in this game. But thats clearly the developers intent. There are no bad selfish lies in this game. Its always either to show compassion or to protect someone else (misdirections given to Alidoro for example are meant to follow on dad's request to never tell anyone about hotel).
All questions have only 2 choices so your argument about gentleman's bride while valid IRL is not applicable to this game. You either lift his spirit or you break it, no middle ground.
For Eugene both answers give you humanity, its just telling truth gives it after talking again so no real correct answer here.

Yeah, but again this is why I believe they just should have a tag for it. There is too much confusion on which is true or lie. If so many game guides can't get the right answer on which is which then what hope do we have, especially since we cannot save beforehand if choosing the wrong answer for what we are playing thru. Especially with the last one on Simon and if that is messed up on a liars play thru then we cannot get the Golden Lie weapon
Mako Jan 19, 2024 @ 8:57am 
Like I said, bad idea.
People who want to minmax have guides. Its not devs fault that some guides are messed up.
But for a typical first time blind playthrough labeling answers is just gonna destroy a major RPG aspect of the game.
MundM Jan 19, 2024 @ 9:45am 
I'm worried about your personal life, if you can't tell the difference between a lie and the truth.
Amene Jan 19, 2024 @ 10:30am 
No. If we're talking about fextra its full of mistakes like that. I've checked this myself in different runs, didnt grab Sophia's ergo, she died on her own when I left the room. Told Manus I liberated her and he answered the same as in a different playthrough

I haven't checked fextra for that, but there are more precise guides - and I think lying is a strict metric (and it's of course not humanity).

Other than that, yea - fextra is usually full of mistakes (and rarely ever close to something that could be considered "completed").

I am starting to wonder if you played the game. The message is there, Test subject 826, even remarks about it when talking to him late in the game. Saying it was definitely done by the puppet

When you are doing the quest, the message is literally some crap on the wall. I context of what 826 tells (much) later into the game, IDK - and how the game in such context treats the earlier answer.

When I played, I gave answers to be a "good guy" not "always lying guy", I'm not sure if I ever checked the area with the wife afterwards (after she was removed). I focused more on parrying everything perfectly =)

Anyway point taken.

But if you want metric - then a simple mod is probably the best thing that could give precise answer, as the portrait with the growing nose is probably not sufficiently fine grained (but idk).
Mako Jan 19, 2024 @ 10:52am 
Originally posted by Amene:

I haven't checked fextra for that, but there are more precise guides - and I think lying is a strict metric (and it's of course not humanity).
Not sure what you mean by that. Even if the game keeps track of the number of lies/truth told it never checks for it. Humanity is the stat that is always checked, and it is never a requirement to have low humanity, only high (different minimum levels for different things).
"Truth only" ending (despite what some guides say) is not a thing. In fact by saying only truth you risk making the ending that is advertised as "truth only" (free from puppet strings) unobtainable because you will be unable to refuse giving heart if you didnt max humanity from all other sources.
Yes, even "golden lie" is tied to humanity, not lies. You can get it to grow to 1st stage at least if you answer riddles and listen to records while always telling the truth.
Last edited by Mako; Jan 19, 2024 @ 10:56am
stranger Jan 19, 2024 @ 11:05am 
Originally posted by MundM:
I'm worried about your personal life, if you can't tell the difference between a lie and the truth.

In the words of the great Lionel Hutz, "There's the truth(shakes head) then there's the TRUTH(nods head)"
Amene Jan 19, 2024 @ 12:29pm 
Yes, even "golden lie" is tied to humanity, not lies. You can get it to grow to 1st stage at least if you answer riddles and listen to records while always telling the truth.

In my first playthrough - where I always did "nice human" answers (so mostly, but not always lies), listened to every record I found (that to say - I missed some quests and records), solved all riddles and got good ending (blue hair, liberated) - I wasn't able to loot the golden lie weapon (though the nose was superbly long).
zab Jan 19, 2024 @ 2:19pm 
Use your brain next time lmaooo
SadPlatty© Jan 19, 2024 @ 2:40pm 
Wouldn't you have failed an all truth run right at the start though when you lied to get into Hotel Krat? Granted I never selected the other option, but this does still count.

Additionally - the real problem isn't that options need to be marked L/T, but instead it's about the fact that it's only 2 answers and some are things you yourself wouldn't say because of vagueness or it wasn't clear enough. Other times however - it does seem like it's more about Sympathy/Empathy than the Truth/Lies. Like here :

Originally posted by stranger:
Lets take Eugenie for another example, is it truly more humane to tell her that the person who saved here life "was just some random person" and not that it was her brother? Regarding this one too, if you don't read the cryptic message before talking to her a different "truth" answer will come up instead of "her brother" answer, it would say "a person that saved her" which again is technically true.

If you take ALL evidence into consideration - is that actually even her brother? Do recall - when you give him the glove, he is disgusted and it doesn't even fit if I recall correctly; but she designed them based on that day as he lost a finger rescuing her.

Hugo gives you a wanted poster later and also accuses him of being a crook - giving you a wanted poster that points out "Impersonation"... makes one think.

Then - this kind hearted fellow chooses the path he did on our way to Isle of Alchemists, and doesn't deny the accusations per-say, but is more like "Wouldn't you do the same?" if I recall correctly.

Finally - we conclude with what happens if you choose to dispatch him; Hugo decides at the end of the game to keep his legacy alive by dressing up just like him and becoming him more-or-less in career and function.

Hence - if you say the guy was her brother, you likely lied to her, and now if she hears about the Wanted poster, she will think of him a common ruffian, tarnishing her memory. By "lying" to her, you are protecting her from the crazyness and letting her keep that good memory alive.

Edit : Which then the options are too vague; he was her brother back then, but now is some clown. We needed an answer to say something like "He was your brother back then, but passed the mantel on to another since", which draws the line in the sand between the two and preserves that memory for her, but helps protect her if the current guy playing that role is a psychopath.
Last edited by SadPlatty©; Jan 19, 2024 @ 2:46pm
Samurai×Mo Jan 19, 2024 @ 3:14pm 
Originally posted by SadPlatty©:
It does seem like it's more about Sympathy/Empathy than the Truth/Lies.

This
stranger Jan 19, 2024 @ 4:51pm 
@SadPlatty©
Yes it does seem more like sympathy/empathy kind of thing, and regarding the first option where you have to lie is mainly a mandatory tutorial showing how to progress the game correctly so that would be a given.
But regarding Alidoro. The original was Eugenie's brother, but in the imposter's dialogue, he doesn't need to deny the accusations since he admits he killed the original and took on his mantle, that is why he has all his fingers and change in attitude.
If you talk to Eugenie before reading the encrypted message dropped from fake Alidoro after attacking him, the option would be "just another stalker"(lie) or "he was the stalker that saved you"(truth). But if you read the encrypted message the new truth option would be "he was your brother". Regarding sympathy/empathy, I think it would be better to tell the truth to let her know there was someone in her family who was an a famous adventurer hero and that saved her, that way she has something to look up to in her family history, instead of just saying "oh it was just some random guy".
Either way though it would be better if the options were better worded instead of being vague and actually changes whether truth or lie depending on what was found in the world.
greenlionguard Jan 19, 2024 @ 6:54pm 
I don't think its really about lies or truths with most Interactions. there are a few noble lies but the others are exceptionally ambiguous except one is considered more "human"
SadPlatty© Jan 19, 2024 @ 10:04pm 
Originally posted by stranger:
But regarding Alidoro. The original was Eugenie's brother, but in the imposter's dialogue, he doesn't need to deny the accusations since he admits he killed the original and took on his mantle, that is why he has all his fingers and change in attitude.
If you talk to Eugenie before reading the encrypted message dropped from fake Alidoro after attacking him, the option would be "just another stalker"(lie) or "he was the stalker that saved you"(truth). But if you read the encrypted message the new truth option would be "he was your brother".

Guess the problem here then is that, at the end of the day, it's just a scripted event in the game.

Like in reality - no matter what you do, the original was killed by the impersonator, and he dragged the name down at some point (whether before we meet him initially or after is really up to speculation). He remembers you on the consecutive meetings, so it wouldn't make sense that we met the brother initially/ever either.

So based on the context when speaking with her - the one who saved her was her brother, yeah, but she never met him again after that; the Alidoro she sees in Hotel Krat is the other guy (which then would mean lying about the glove is bad - because your hiding the fact he died; we just didn't know yet). This then begs the question "If you don't kill him; what if they bumped into each other thinking that was her brother, and he tells her he doesn't know who she is?"


TL:DR - I would say the real "truth run" is the friends we make along the way :praisesun:
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Date Posted: Jan 17, 2024 @ 6:57pm
Posts: 34