Using long charge attacks and fable arts is discouraging

[MovieMuscle]

I feel like I've rarely been using my fable arts in this game and my long-charge attack sporadically as well because the game essentially discourages it. There's very short windows in between the enemies' (especially bosses) attacks and combos. I basically usually just get one or two whacks in before trying to perfect guard their attacks and again get one or two whacks in during the very short window before their next attack until they eventually get staggered.

Has anyone else experienced this? I want to get to a point where I extend the duration of staggered status so that I can get my fable art in and as well as the fatal attack. I feel like anything else isn't really viable in this game...

Keep in mind I just only beat the Eldest of the Black Rabbit Brotherhood

[WhiteLezard]

My build is a motivity / big dumb weapons one and I use charged attacks all the time; it's all on the timing and knowing when to full charge and when to just tap R2.
On the other hand Fable arts are situational, but the ones that hit hard have super armor so landing them will get close to staggering the enemy / boss.

[C1REX]

Publicado originalmente por MovieMuscle:

Has anyone else experienced this?

I had the same feeling during my first playthrough, where I focused on the fast attacks of the quickest weapons, as they seemed to be the only viable way to play for me. I was essentially spamming R1 with a rapier and later, an umbrella weapon.

However, now on my NG+5 run, I've really started to appreciate big weapons. It's so satisfying to find an opening and land the slowest, yet most powerful moves in the game, especially when bosses can deal insane damage.

What I don't like, though, is the boss amulet that gives extra damage based on the amount of Fable Art charge you have. I find it too powerful, and it discourages me from using Fable Arts.

[tintingaroo]

Have you tried incorporating dodges? Sometimes dodging their last/certain attacks gets you in a good position and more time for longer attacks.

[MovieMuscle]

Publicado originalmente por tintingaroo:

Have you tried incorporating dodges? Sometimes dodging their last/certain attacks gets you in a good position and more time for longer attacks.

Hmm, I've actually not really been focusing on dodging, just perfect guarding. I see what you mean since even a perfect guard on some of those heavy attacks knocks the wind out of you and therefore shortens your window for attacking. I'll try this next time

[Urkeksi]

in my experience charge attacks are very strong in this game which is the reason I enjoy the combat loop so much more than in any other souls esque game. Many bosses actually have very big openings especially after long attack flurrys or Fury Attacks (the red ones).
Some of the bigger normal mobs will get staggered or legit stunlocked by repeated charged attacks until either your stamina runs out or they get stunned and riposted for abnormal damage.
It´s all about timing and spacing imo but the opportunities are absolutely there and I love it.
Also keep in mind that after enemies got reposted and try to get up they are still vulnerable which is a prime opportunity for even the slowest charge attack for some free additional damage after a riposte. This always works since during a riposte your stamina will regenerate.

I haven´t really tried many fable arts but the ones I used all had hyperarmor which lets you ignore the stagger of any attack and since normal enemies will either flinch or even get stunned for a critical attack they´re insanely strong and will make some mini bosses trivial to kill.
Most Bosses will also flinch from it and I haven´t had a Boss stagger me out of a Fable Art so just let it rip lol.

[Mako]

With charged attacks you need to learn enemies moveset, there are plenty of openings, and those attacks with proper passives can do wonders, especially with heavy weapons.
Fable arts that cost more than 1 segment usually have hyperarmor which can also be improved with passives, you can not be knocked out of animation (at least most of the time).

And you can try relying on extended reach of some weapons. Check every weapon/handle moveset when you get them. In many cases Pino moves forward a lot with charged attacks, with proper spacing you can reliably catch enemies with damage while remaining out of their melee range during animation startup. Same goes for running attacks, many weapons/handles give you extra reach with animations alone.
Holy sword can be extended with its hande art and being heavy weapon it does a ton of poise/stagger damage to enemies with charged attacks. Booster glaive handle is another easy mode option, especialy with greatsword of fate and later bone cutter blades. BTW dont sleep on greatsword of fate just because its early game blade, it goes well with a lot of handles, among early options it has amazing reach with police baton handle on charged and running attacks.

[Anatolius]

Same. Thankfully there is a talisman that increases damage for every charged fable cell.

[Toltage]

Having recently gotten past King of Puppets, charged attacks and buffing Fable arts are probably the core of most of my gameplay. Currently running Advance build with Salamander Dagger, charged attacks and perfect blocks help to force bosses down into a staggerable state quicker. Once they're down, I pop Ignite from the dagger blade to boost fire attack (if I haven't already) and Fatal attack them. Sometimes I use the Retreating Stab Fable art but only if I really need distance.

There's certainly some charged attacks and Fable art attacks that aren't as safe in the same scenarios (e.g. Acidic Spear with it's charged and Fable attacks), also strategies will probably vary depending on boss (e.g. King of Puppets phase 2, ended up dodging and normal attacking more than perfect blocking and charged attacking). Ultimately it's just a matter of learning enemy attack patterns and knowing what will work in windows between attacks, like most Soulslike stuff.

[MundM]

Couldn't disagree more. I made a strenght run and fully charged strong attacks in combination with brutal fable arts combo attacks, melted away every boss. Some bosses went down in mere seconds. King of Puppets 2nd phase didn't even get to buff his sword, because I killed him with a charged+fable arts combo while he had his animation.