Am I missing something? Perfect Parry isn't NEARLY as hard as I have seen people say on this forum?

[dustin1280]

So I am just starting this game, I am running through with a motivity build and the pipe wrench (which is AMAZING).

I just finished up the Puppet King boss fight, so I think I have quite a bit more to go.

But I have seen NUMEROUS posts about people calling the perfect parry system too hard or too small of a window, I don't see it....

It's not as easy to parry as sekiro was, sure, but I am finding perfect parry is generally not THAT difficult to pull off in most circumstances...

Now don't get me wrong, I still miss the window once in awhile, but I went into this game expecting to almost never pull off perfect parry and that is not the case at all, I tend to hit it about 60%-75% of the time depending on what I am fighting...

Did they patch the perfect parry window, and it just isn't as difficult as it was on initial release? Or are people just exaggerating the difficulty of perfect parry?

[SteelaiRizel]

Publicado originalmente por grendel:

Publicado originalmente por Krazy Wallet:

Don't blame everyone else for your poor debating and discussion skills. This thread isn't about the feasibility of perfect guarding every attack. The OP was asking why people are complaining about the perfect guard mechanic and whether those complaints are justified. You then presented an argument that it was justified and gave an example where it is strategically better to dodge than perfect guard.

Don't baby rage when people point out your flaws, work on your logic and reason to do better in your discussions

This is what people here do all day in almost every thread where people complain about any aspect of this game. Who's baby raging, the people who are still trying to play the game even though they hate it or the people who defend it every day like it's their little brother? Get over yourself, gamer.

No one is debating with you. Most of the complaints are totally valid responses to the stupid ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game design. Homing attacks that will cross entire arenas (Laxasia, Nameless Puppet, to a lesser extent Manus, King of Puppets, etc etc) is not a made up problem. Variable parry timing depending on the weapon you're using is not good game design. Chip damage through blocking is lame as ♥♥♥♥. This ♥♥♥♥ is not fun to play, and I paid just as much money as you did so I get to complain about it all I want. Cry about it.

I mean you can complain all you like and still be wrong.

Which is true. So go for it but people are still going to call you out on crap anyway. And they have just as much as a right to do so, by your own logic.

[dustin1280]

Publicado originalmente por Krazy Wallet:

Well done sir! In case you were not aware, the P-organ has a 6th tier in NG+ and a 7th tier in NG++. Also, if it isn't too late, don't go into NG+ right away. Go back to the hotel and go upstairs. Depending on your ending, there may be a letter for you with an achievement.

If you did Free from the Puppet Strings ending, then there may not be a letter if I remember correctly, but the other two endings have additional achievements attached post-credits.

Thank you, I planned on playing NG+ and NG++ but Lords of the Fallen comes out tomorrow, so I might hold of on NG+ for Lies of P

[grendel]

Publicado originalmente por SteelaiRizel:

Which is true. So go for it but people are still going to call you out on crap anyway. And they have just as much as a right to do so, by your own logic.

Waaaah people don't like the game I like!

[A5HEN]

Publicado originalmente por Xinv:

I find this game easier to perfect guard than it was in Sekiro. The timing feels more organic somehow.

NASA is ready to offer you a job

[Groen90]

Publicado originalmente por A5HEN:

Publicado originalmente por Xinv:

I find this game easier to perfect guard than it was in Sekiro. The timing feels more organic somehow.

NASA is ready to offer you a job

are they going to shoot him up there and have him parry asteroids?

[Sonnenbank]

Publicado originalmente por dustin1280:

So I am just starting this game, I am running through with a motivity build and the pipe wrench (which is AMAZING).

I just finished up the Puppet King boss fight, so I think I have quite a bit more to go.

But I have seen NUMEROUS posts about people calling the perfect parry system too hard or too small of a window, I don't see it....

It's not as easy to parry as sekiro was, sure, but I am finding perfect parry is generally not THAT difficult to pull off in most circumstances...

Now don't get me wrong, I still miss the window once in awhile, but I went into this game expecting to almost never pull off perfect parry and that is not the case at all, I tend to hit it about 60%-75% of the time depending on what I am fighting...

Did they patch the perfect parry window, and it just isn't as difficult as it was on initial release? Or are people just exaggerating the difficulty of perfect parry?

People are just bad and also probably like me thought you have to tap button like in sekiro

I was also surprised how relativly "easy" it is compared to what people claimed it is.
The parry window is perfectly fine if you hold parry atfer button !

For most attacks i only need to see them 3-4 times before i get my first perfect deflect on that very attack.

I think many people probably tabbed button instead of press+hold.

[Giganx]

It's not impossible to pull off, but the reward to difficulty ratio does seem weird.

I've been focusing mainly on parrying, and in a way the game punishes it. It still costs stamina, and a lot of the time landing one still staggers you or knocks you backwards so you can't counter-attack. Whereas dodging has FAR more generous iframes, also results in you taking no damage and you recover from a dodge and position yourself fast enough to get several counter attacks in.

It seems like you're really only supposed to use the parry mechanic for red attacks.

[dustin1280]

Publicado originalmente por Giganx:

It's not impossible to pull off, but the reward to difficulty ratio does seem weird.

I've been focusing mainly on parrying, and in a way the game punishes it. It still costs stamina, and a lot of the time landing one still staggers you or knocks you backwards so you can't counter-attack. Whereas dodging has FAR more generous iframes, also results in you taking no damage and you recover from a dodge and position yourself fast enough to get several counter attacks in.

It seems like you're really only supposed to use the parry mechanic for red attacks.

I used the parry mechanic for just about any attack I could, I like it a lot. The stagger that comes from parrying is great.

[Giganx]

Publicado originalmente por dustin1280:

Publicado originalmente por Giganx:

It's not impossible to pull off, but the reward to difficulty ratio does seem weird.

I've been focusing mainly on parrying, and in a way the game punishes it. It still costs stamina, and a lot of the time landing one still staggers you or knocks you backwards so you can't counter-attack. Whereas dodging has FAR more generous iframes, also results in you taking no damage and you recover from a dodge and position yourself fast enough to get several counter attacks in.

It seems like you're really only supposed to use the parry mechanic for red attacks.

I used the parry mechanic for just about any attack I could, I like it a lot. The stagger that comes from parrying is great.

That stagger still builds up from just attacking, and if you parry everything in certain fights you just keep getting knocked out of range and can't counter attack.

There are some fights where parrying seems to be more useful; mainly fights with humanoid enemies where you can break their weapon. Most of the time successfully dodging is more productive than successfully parrying, though; and dodging is way easier.

Parry's have that cool factor, though, and at the end of the day winning like a badass is more important than just winning.

[Krazy Wallet]

Publicado originalmente por grendel:

Publicado originalmente por Krazy Wallet:

Don't blame everyone else for your poor debating and discussion skills. This thread isn't about the feasibility of perfect guarding every attack. The OP was asking why people are complaining about the perfect guard mechanic and whether those complaints are justified. You then presented an argument that it was justified and gave an example where it is strategically better to dodge than perfect guard.

Don't baby rage when people point out your flaws, work on your logic and reason to do better in your discussions

This is what people here do all day in almost every thread where people complain about any aspect of this game. Who's baby raging, the people who are still trying to play the game even though they hate it or the people who defend it every day like it's their little brother? Get over yourself, gamer.

No one is debating with you. Most of the complaints are totally valid responses to the stupid ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game design. Homing attacks that will cross entire arenas (Laxasia, Nameless Puppet, to a lesser extent Manus, King of Puppets, etc etc) is not a made up problem. Variable parry timing depending on the weapon you're using is not good game design. Chip damage through blocking is lame as ♥♥♥♥. This ♥♥♥♥ is not fun to play, and I paid just as much money as you did so I get to complain about it all I want. Cry about it.

There was a debate and discussion happening in my original conversation that you weren't apart of. I appreciate your input but, sadly, you've added nothing of value to warrant a specific response to your critiques of the game.

I will also call out that I believe you are misinformed. There are not variable times for perfect guarding based on the weapon you are using, it's the same using Etiquette as it is with Frozen Feast.

All you have done is complained, cursed, and claimed that most of the main mechanics are bad without any degree of support. You are free to voice your opinion, just as I am. The difference is, when you speak, no one reads it with an ounce of credibility as you haven't supported your claims. Try taking some time to articulate why you believe something to be true rather than simply cursing because you don't like some element of the game.

[dustin1280]

Publicado originalmente por Giganx:

That stagger still builds up from just attacking, and if you parry everything in certain fights you just keep getting knocked out of range and can't counter attack.

There are some fights where parrying seems to be more useful; mainly fights with humanoid enemies where you can break their weapon. Most of the time successfully dodging is more productive than successfully parrying, though; and dodging is way easier.

Parry's have that cool factor, though, and at the end of the day winning like a badass is more important than just winning.

Stagger builds up SIGNIFICANTLY faster when parrying AND attacking then when attacking and dodging...

[Giganx]

Publicado originalmente por dustin1280:

Publicado originalmente por Giganx:

That stagger still builds up from just attacking, and if you parry everything in certain fights you just keep getting knocked out of range and can't counter attack.

There are some fights where parrying seems to be more useful; mainly fights with humanoid enemies where you can break their weapon. Most of the time successfully dodging is more productive than successfully parrying, though; and dodging is way easier.

Parry's have that cool factor, though, and at the end of the day winning like a badass is more important than just winning.

Stagger builds up SIGNIFICANTLY faster when parrying AND attacking then when attacking and dodging...

You can attack way more when dodging, though. When blocking/parrying you're constantly being pushed backwards and out of attack range. Dodging forward you can generally get some attacks in after every successful dodge. Way more overall damage and not that much slower to stagger.

[dustin1280]

Publicado originalmente por Giganx:

You can attack way more when dodging, though. When blocking/parrying you're constantly being pushed backwards and out of attack range. Dodging forward you can generally get some attacks in after every successfully dodged attack. Way more overall damage and not that much slower to stagger.

You are absolutely wrong...
Parry > IF you get pushed back > dodge/run forward > attack > retreat..

That works for EVERY boss that pushes you back even Laxasia, Nameless Puppet, and King of Puppets

I guarantee anyone that parry's regularly and attacks will take down a boss faster than someone just dodging and attacking.

That isn't to say dodging isn't perfectly viable, but don't try to describe parry as something that isn't, because it is (and often, more efficient) for nearly every enemy in this game.

[Giganx]

Publicado originalmente por dustin1280:

Publicado originalmente por Giganx:

You can attack way more when dodging, though. When blocking/parrying you're constantly being pushed backwards and out of attack range. Dodging forward you can generally get some attacks in after every successfully dodged attack. Way more overall damage and not that much slower to stagger.

You are absolutely wrong...
Parry > IF you get pushed back > dodge forward > attack > retreat..

That works for EVERY boss that pushes you back even Laxasia and Nameless Puppet

You'd get way more attacks in simply dodging forward to iframe the attack, and then being right next to the boss with enough time to spam multiple attacks before retreating. You're wasting a lot of potential attack time having to constantly reclose distance after being pushed back, and losing a lot of damage.

Not saying parrying doesn't work, but it really isn't incentivized well. Dodging is almost always more productive.

[dustin1280]

Publicado originalmente por Giganx:

Publicado originalmente por dustin1280:

You are absolutely wrong...
Parry > IF you get pushed back > dodge forward > attack > retreat..

That works for EVERY boss that pushes you back even Laxasia and Nameless Puppet

You'd get way more attacks in simply dodging forward to iframe the attack, and then being right next to the boss with enough time to spam multiple attacks before retreating. You're wasting a lot of potential attack time having to close distance after being pushed back, and losing a lot of damage.

Not saying parrying doesn't work, but it really isn't incentivized well. Dodging is almost always more productive.

Yeah we aren't going to agree here...
Parrying and attacking (even when pushed back, which is still easy to get a hit) results in faster damage then dodging and attacking. Because it results in FASTER stagger gauge which chunks enemies...

EDIT:
I suspect the difference is I was using heavy bonk weapons, not fast weapons. Heavy weapons specialize in parrying/staggering.

If you were using a faster quick weapon build, I could see dodging being more efficient.

TLDR:
If using heavy weapon motivity build (which is what I was using) then Parry > Dodging
If using light weapon technique build then I suspect Dodging > Parry