Double Dodge?

[Krazy Wallet]

Is it just me, or does this get you hurt more often than it helps? I respecced my P-organ to make it bigger better and put those points elsewhere. Once I had a single dodge, it felt like I got roll caught far less and had more stamina. Anyone else notice this or is it just me button mashing?

[D]

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Is it just me, or does this get you hurt more often than it helps? I respecced my P-organ to make it bigger better and put those points elsewhere. Once I had a single dodge, it felt like I got roll caught far less and had more stamina. Anyone else notice this or is it just me button mashing?

You're not seen things, I noticed too. There are A LOT of enemies (and I'd say all bosses), that actually hold their attacks until you "spend" the second dodge, to release it. Developers clearly want players to parry or at least block in this game and I guess that's their way of forcing players to do so. That's called bad game designed.

And before all the nine year old pros of the forum come here to say how god tier they are at dodging: nobody cares. Nobody.

[zab]

Originally posted by rpgforme:

The get-up dodge has saved my bacon almost every boss fight. I don't know what you guys are smoking.

It almost never has any use in the entirity of the game

[zab]

Originally posted by D:

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Is it just me, or does this get you hurt more often than it helps? I respecced my P-organ to make it bigger better and put those points elsewhere. Once I had a single dodge, it felt like I got roll caught far less and had more stamina. Anyone else notice this or is it just me button mashing?

You're not seen things, I noticed too. There are A LOT of enemies (and I'd say all bosses), that actually hold their attacks until you "spend" the second dodge, to release it. Developers clearly want players to parry or at least block in this game and I guess that's their way of forcing players to do so. That's called bad game designed.

And before all the nine year old pros of the forum come here to say how god tier they are at dodging: nobody cares. Nobody.

Just dodge

[Anderson]

Rising Dodge should just be an ability you have for free. If nothing else, so you can get up faster after getting knocked down, to save some time.

[Baron01]

Originally posted by Rena Ichigawa:

...the wakeup dodge is useless. Even against shovel bot, if you mash dodge you can roll out of it before he keeps swinging

Originally posted by zab:

It almost never has any use in the entirity of the game

These two guys have no idea, do not listen to them. Chance to dodge from being knocked down is massive help in certain areas of the game and will most likely saves you several deaths. It probably should not be your priority pick but you will absolutely have enough Quartz to get it before finishing your first playthrough.

I got also Link Dodge in NG+ when I took all the useful perks and still had a lot of Quartz left. I do not spam dodge since the game taught me early spamming does not work so I do not double dodge too early most of the time. However, I noticed that if you mash dodge you effectively reduce amount of i-frames by doing 2nd dodge too early.
If you plan to focus on dodge and use Link Dodge, I would also got minor perks that reduce damage while dodging.

[zab]

Originally posted by Baron01:

Originally posted by Rena Ichigawa:

...the wakeup dodge is useless. Even against shovel bot, if you mash dodge you can roll out of it before he keeps swinging

Originally posted by zab:

It almost never has any use in the entirity of the game

These two guys have no idea, do not listen to them. Chance to dodge from being knocked down is massive help in certain areas of the game and will most likely saves you several deaths. It probably should not be your priority pick but you will absolutely have enough Quartz to get it before finishing your first playthrough.

I got also Link Dodge in NG+ when I took all the useful perks and still had a lot of Quartz left. I do not spam dodge since the game taught me early spamming does not work so I do not double dodge too early most of the time. However, I noticed that if you mash dodge you effectively reduce amount of i-frames by doing 2nd dodge too early.
If you plan to focus on dodge and use Link Dodge, I would also got minor perks that reduce damage while dodging.

I think there are like 2 enemies that can kill you if you don't have the get-up roll, the shovel green robots and something else, I don't remember, nothing else in the game benefits from it

[laslax]

Originally posted by Baron01:

Chance to dodge from being knocked down is massive help in certain areas of the game and will most likely saves you several deaths. It probably should not be your priority pick but you will absolutely have enough Quartz to get it before finishing your first playthrough.

I don't exactly know how many use cases Rising Dodge actually has, but I never had issues not having Rising Dodge. Sure, I may avoid like one additional hit from an enemy with a certain attack, but I could also just focus on not getting hit by that specific attack. I feel like there's just so few situations Rising Dodge is actually useful, and then you have to remember you even have it. And even if you do get pancaked and the enemy has a follow-up, the follow-up seemingly never hits you.

I got also Link Dodge in NG+ when I took all the useful perks and still had a lot of Quartz left. I do not spam dodge since the game taught me early spamming does not work so I do not double dodge too early most of the time. However, I noticed that if you mash dodge you effectively reduce amount of i-frames by doing 2nd dodge too early.
If you plan to focus on dodge and use Link Dodge, I would also got minor perks that reduce damage while dodging.

The problem with Link Dodge is that it costs more stamina to use it, takes 2 Quartz to use it, and you get punished if you're not paying attention. Having a single dodge is just simpler and doesn't have a downside, but I suppose it is a different playstyle.

[The Undead Watcher]

Yeah double dodge seems worthless, but the get-up dodge is really speeding up the combat and overall improves responsiveness in fights.

[Nonexistinghero]

Double dodge and wake-up dodge have been very useful to me once I got them. What has been screwing me over however is accidentally pressing the dodge button as I guard an attack before the heal button... and then I get hit during the heal since the buffered dodge goes first and I can't cancel the heal either when I realize the mistake since the buffered heal goes before anything else. Meanwhile if I just healed without dodging, I would be able to block or dodge the following attack.

But it's more of a me issue than a game issue.

[SteelaiRizel]

Originally posted by D:

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Is it just me, or does this get you hurt more often than it helps? I respecced my P-organ to make it bigger better and put those points elsewhere. Once I had a single dodge, it felt like I got roll caught far less and had more stamina. Anyone else notice this or is it just me button mashing?

You're not seen things, I noticed too. There are A LOT of enemies (and I'd say all bosses), that actually hold their attacks until you "spend" the second dodge, to release it. Developers clearly want players to parry or at least block in this game and I guess that's their way of forcing players to do so. That's called bad game designed.

And before all the nine year old pros of the forum come here to say how god tier they are at dodging: nobody cares. Nobody.

I won't bother with the god tier nonsense, i know i am not but i know your full of ♥♥♥♥. Though it is a habit of bad players to blame such things. Even more a habit to say the further note of "i dont care how good you are".

Basically it's gamer for "I suck at the game, can't figure out what i am doing wrong, so i am going to blame the game."

[SteelaiRizel]

Originally posted by The Undead Watcher:

Yeah double dodge seems worthless, but the get-up dodge is really speeding up the combat and overall improves responsiveness in fights.

Just learn to time it properly and it won't be useless. Just really requires you being attentive.

[Krazy Wallet]

I appreciate the input, everyone. From what I gather, it sounds like the skill is useful. I just need to git gud. Fair enough, maybe I need to do a dodge only run!

[Baron01]

Originally posted by laslax:

I don't exactly know how many use cases Rising Dodge actually has, but I never had issues not having Rising Dodge. Sure, I may avoid like one additional hit from an enemy with a certain attack, but I could also just focus on not getting hit by that specific attack. I feel like there's just so few situations Rising Dodge is actually useful, and then you have to remember you even have it. And even if you do get pancaked and the enemy has a follow-up, the follow-up seemingly never hits you.

Most boss' slam or charge attacks will knock you down after they land them, Rising Dodge allows you to get up and still land a hit. This is a consolation price for being hit but can help you beat the boss.

I do not think Rising Dodge is a must have early on but I would definitely pick it toward late game on first playthrough.

Link Dodge is a different story as it alters core dodge mechanic compared to Rising Dodge that just adds new feature to dodge. I ultimately took it very late in NG++ where I had nothing else to spend my Quartz at. I also wanted to see how it worked. I was not impressed with it from defensive perspective as you really need to be mindful you have it and not spam your dodge. There is some potential for offense as it increases your mobility in a fight. Unfortunately, this is hindered by Stamina starvation that I suffer near constantly in prolonged fights.